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This is what I came up with. It's a little tricky to be able to play Savor the Moment on its own if we draw into it without a win condition that just gets us ahead anyway with the current manabase. I went back to a fetch + triome, because it enables more plays with Elvish Reclaimer and the ability to bounce the triome and cycle if needed.
October 1, 2022 7:16 p.m.
That’s a power reason. If the deck/card makes up the majority of the meta (which it did) it is too powerful.
Twin could hold up interaction until they flashed in their 3 cmc your EoT, then play their enchantment next turn, usually with counterspell backup if you hinted at interaction.
Twin was a huge portion of the meta at the time, with its banning there’s more variation in blue/red control shells, although most have converged to murktide (which is still a smaller portion of the meta even though it’s currently the most played deck).
I want to say at the time, twin + pod was near 50% of modern, which is completely unhealthy for the format.
September 30, 2022 5:34 a.m.
I don't see Deathrite Shaman getting unbanned anytime soon. It's just way too versatile of a card with little investment. If solid fetch hate was ever printed, then I could see it getting unbanned, but until then, I just don't see it.
We'd need something like Karn's Sylex with split second for Deathrite Shaman to see an unban. I think the banlist is pretty fair right now, and everything on it is justified for one reason or another.
The only one that isn't on there for a power reason and could potentially be unbanned (in my opinion) is Sensei's Divining Top, but that card is such a time-waste, that I don't think anyone actually wants it unbanned.
September 29, 2022 11:58 p.m.
So yeah, thinking about it logically, Savor the Moment isn't the worst card on its own. It's also pretty good with an Amulet of Vigor out, and not a lot of lands in play (one of the scenarios where Scapeshift is bad). It basically translates into "draw a card, take an additional combat phase, your land plays for the turn reset" - which seems pretty good for only 3 mana. If I have nothing going for me already, I would basically be paying 5 mana to draw a card, when finding this off of Bring to Light, which doesn't sound all that great. However, I do think it may be a step in the right direction, since it is a lower CMC and is actually relevant in a lot of situations where Scapeshift isn't. I can also find Dryad of the Ilysian Grove as a backup if I'm in a position where it's just a glorified "draw a card."
The main thing I can think of that is a potential downside I need to play around is casting Summoner's Pact during the normal turn, then being unable to pay for it during my extra turn without an untap step, if I am silly enough to forget (completely my fault if I end up losing that way).
I think I'm going to make the switch, thanks for the idea! I'm hopeful it will be a more relevant card than The Gitrog Monster was. I may tweak my manabase and sideboard alongside the swap, because I am thinking 2 copies of Bring to Light is feasible now that there's a failsafe option that's relevant enough (Savor the Moment can always go out in games 2/3 for more powerful and narrow targets).
September 29, 2022 10:49 p.m. Edited.
Savor the Moment is the card I was thinking of. Either that or Time Warp could work. There's also Waves of Aggression and Response / Resurgence, but I feel missing out on the draw phase is a fairly big difference, making them not as viable.
September 29, 2022 7:49 p.m.
Now that’s an interesting concept I haven’t considered.
I also completely agree that the deck does more with less and both options are pretty meh…
I’ve not really considered extra turns or anything like that as a viable option, but they could definitely fit the slot.
Thanks for the great suggestion, I’ll have to see if there’s any that have a more reasonable downside. I remember some skip your untap ones and things like that, which this deck mitigates a bit due to the interaction of Amulet of Vigor and any bounceland returning back to your hand, to keep producing mana.
September 29, 2022 7:25 p.m.
… which is probably better than The Gitrog Monster now that I think about it. Thoughts?
September 28, 2022 10:21 p.m.
It’s a generic 5/7 unless you have another creature. Not ideal. I feel Cavalier of Thorns is better and more synergistic at that CMC.
September 28, 2022 10:14 p.m.
Yeah, basically the card is treated as it’s front side until you play it, and when playing it you pick which side to play.
The same for adventure cards too (always treated as the creature), which I haven’t really looked at beyond Fae of Wishes. Looking into them, Flaxen Intruder seems like a decent idea for The Gitrog Monster's slot. It's the same total power/toughness, and I can find it with only 2 colors. I'll have to keep it in mind moving forward. Too bad it needs to connect for the enchantment hate, or I'd probably slot it in without playtesting for the coincidental Blood Moon hate.
September 28, 2022 5:55 p.m.
I mean Bring to Light can also hit cards like Valki, God of Lies Flip, Mila, Crafty Companion Flip and Extus, Oriq Overlord Flip and play their flip sides, or even something like the bust side of Boom / Bust, but I want the card to be playable on its own as well (I don't want to regret drawing it). The closest I can think of in that aspect is Crime / Punishment, but I can't really guarantee I can hit anything with the crime side of the card when I need to. The punishment side of that card makes it playable on its own as a targeted wipe, similar to Engineered Explosives.
September 27, 2022 10:37 p.m.
Regarding Wargate - If you are investing 4 mana into an Amulet of Vigor, you are generally better off investing in your threat (in my opinion) or just running Stone-Seeder Hierophant since it is essentially an upgraded Amulet of Vigor, letting you choose what to untap. The same can be said about finding a land. In most scenarios, if you are paying that much for a land, it is a bounce so you can go off. I will sometimes tutor for Elvish Reclaimer to achieve that, but I try not to need to.
One of my biggest issues with Wargate is that it is 3 different colored mana, which often means we are capable of getting to 5+ mana just as easily with our manabase, in which case, there's better things to do than overpay for a combo piece to get to our payoff cards. Wargate is definitely flexible enough, and I would probably consider it a lot more strongly if it was something like instead of .
September 27, 2022 6:32 p.m.
I ran Glittering Wish for a while (1 yr+ or so), but I found Fae of Wishes was a better wish option, since it had synergy with Turntimber Symbiosis Flip and had more options when found with Mosswort Bridge. I ultimately cut it for Bring to Light in the current version. I definitely agree on The Gitrog Monster but I need a target for Bring to Light when I don't have Amulet of Vigor in play, and that was the best I could come up with. I am more than open to suggestions of an instant/sorcery or creature that does more at <= 5 CMC (4 or less would be ideal, as 5 CMC pushes it).
Lotus Cobra is also a card I ran for quite a while, and is okay, but doesn't really do much when we don't have lands in hand, and is less powerful than an extra land creature in most cases. If you can cast a titan, it is a free creature, since you get your mana back on the first land fetch, so it is pretty good. I view it as a less powerful Amulet of Vigor for all intents and purposes.
September 25, 2022 7:20 p.m.
I like the idea of Wrenn and Six alongside more fetches. I don't know if the colorless lands suggested would dilute your manabase too much without enough upside, but they would be good options against more greedy manabases with minimal basics, as they become land destruction once your opponent runs out of basics. They do synergize with the deck's concept, since you could 'force' them to shuffle when you don't like the card on top of their decks.
edit: I would consider the other suggestions more of a meta dependent decision, where Wrenn and Six is a solid option regardless.
September 25, 2022 5:38 p.m. Edited.
Urza's Saga and maybe some cascade cards could help you find your combo pieces easier. For example, Bloodbraid Elf seems like a decent "finisher" choice over your dragon, since it can find pretty much any card in the deck (furthering your strategy), while also adding a clock.
September 25, 2022 5:14 p.m.
What do you mean by attacking their mana? I've made a green control deck with Plow Under and Primal Command which makes them redraw their lands, is it a form of "attacking their mana" like that, or some other route? Want to clarify what you mean by that a bit?
September 25, 2022 4:49 p.m.
I think you can just edit your main post to use a different word, to avoid going down this rabbit hole any further, and to focus on the posts main intent...
Once that is done, maybe a moderator can delete all the posts (like this one) that aren't contributing to the main topic to avoid further confusion. I don't see it as a big deal, since context matters, and it wasn't used in a hateful way, but to just avoid further discussion, it may be a good idea to use a "synonym" for the point you were trying to get across, like maybe stupid, foolish, dumb? Idk.
September 25, 2022 2:26 p.m.
There's plenty of brews I've come up with, which I've abandoned because they just weren't fast or consistent enough for the modern benchmarks.
Not every idea is something that can be used in the format. My most recent idea I had to throw out was a convoluted self-mill reanimator deck, using convoke on Narcomoeba for Endless Obedience to bring back Angel of Glory's Rise which finds Laboratory Maniac and some other human that draws (lots of options). While it technically was capable of meeting the 4 turn rule, it completely folded to hate, and too much of the "core" didn't do much beyond enabling the combo.
For those reasons, I've abandoned the idea until something new is printed that makes it seem more viable, then maybe I can revisit it. Point is, not every idea can do something in the format, and you need to be realistic about your expectations for your "stack of cardboard."
September 24, 2022 8:54 a.m.
You can still brew in modern, honestly. Your brew just needs to be cohesive enough to realistically get to turn 4 and win by then (or prevent your opponent from doing so).
The problem is when you have cards that aren't synergistic enough to be fast/consistent enough to hit those benchmarks. Modern is a difficult format to just throw together some cards that look decent together, because the turn 4 benchmark is there and cannot be ignored. You can plan to win later than turn 4 with enough interaction, but you need to have interaction for all the various types of decks that otherwise plan to win by turn 4.
For example, I have a slightly janky blue/black rogue prowess deck that I use sometimes, which I wouldn't consider competitive, but it is cohesive enough to go toe to toe with any tier 1 modern deck.
September 24, 2022 8:18 a.m.
I don’t think it will get banned. If they had a semi-limited list in modern, I would nominate it and all the other overplayed MH2 cards, so we can move away from modern horizons constructed block.
It’s a relatively safe investment, since there’s going to be demand in commander and other formats for the card.
I don’t think it is a required card in any archetype, but it does add some power to some.
September 21, 2022 7:08 p.m.
I agree with that.
If you just don’t want to die, and that can be considered a turbo-fog, there’s also lots of immortality options, where you replace damage (Worship being my favorite).
I personally wouldn’t consider that fog, but some people might. There’s also the Pariah route where you redirect damage to something that just doesn’t die.
September 19, 2022 4:51 p.m.
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