Tarnished Citadel
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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Archenemy Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Planar Constructed Legal
Planechase Legal
Premodern Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Tarnished Citadel

Land

: Add .

: Add one mana of any colour. This deals 3 damage to you.

SufferFromEDHD on Glarb Black Green Blue Creatureless Control

3 months ago

Path of Ancestry seems out of place in a creatureless deck? Otawara, Soaring City lose colors but gain unique removal.

Grand Coliseum comes into play tapped? Breaking your own rules. How is this better than Reflecting Pool?

Tarnished Citadel the worst rainbow land? You are running all of the dual lands in a 3 color deck. Seems unnecessary.

Swan Song is superior but you now have access Strix Serenade too.

Vanishing Verse really solid 2 mana removal. Answers a lot of potential problems this strategy might encounter.

eliakimras on Thought and Talon

1 year ago

Since your landbase is looking budgetless, how about Takenuma, Abandoned Mire, Shizo, Death's Storehouse, Minamo, School at Water's Edge and Volrath's Stronghold in place of Plains, Irrigated Farmland, Fetid Pools and Tarnished Citadel?

biobrush on Za-Draw Ascendancy (Hidden Commander: Zada)

2 years ago

Twizzlywizzle I'm looking over your list. It's rock solid and I'm impressed how you've outfitted it for cEDH. I have a few suggestions that you may consider testing.

Green Sun's Zenith will grab your best mana dork or the one you can afford with the mana available. It's another spell for those triggers, it opens the possibility of a creature toolbox (Collector Ouphe is fairly asymmetrical in your deck), and it could be used as a infinitely re-shuffling last-card-in-deck (if that situation were to arise, not sure how).

Life / Death is really, really good. It's all about the Life half, Death is just gravy. For 1 mana, you can usually triple the number of mana dorks you have on the field, unlocking stupidly good Jeskai Ascendancy and cantriping lines. With the quantity of mana dorks in your deck already, I can see why you might pass on the less mana efficient and versatile "lands become creatures" cards, but I would highly recommend at least testing Life / Death.

Mutavault: It's a free mana dork for the cost of a colorless producing land. Yes, we're playing 5c, but is Tarnished Citadel really worth it? (Of all the cards in cEDH -- which I don't play -- this is the one that irritates me the most.)

And Mutavault is an Ally for... Harabaz Druid. This card is so good pre-Tazri and Zada!

Lastly, Narset's Reversal. This does cheeky stuff in returning your cantrip to hand with the Zada triggers on the stack, doubling the cantrip's potential. More importantly, it's a rock solid cEDH card as a counterspell and/or the best spell on the stack!

I hope some of this helps. Truth be told, I haven't tested this deck much in the wild. But in theory, this advice is sound.

SufferFromEDHD on Kenrith Creatureless Control

2 years ago

I think you and I started MTG around the same time. Don't see Ensnaring Bridge + Null Brooch on this site often enough.

Tarnished Citadel? Over Reflecting Pool or Meteor Crater?

Breathstealer's Crypt clever! Why is this not in your Oloro list? Think I'm going to add it into my version.

Dete on Greven Lifelink

2 years ago

actualiza esto

Spirits on Yuriko, Shadow of Fate EDH

2 years ago

Wow thanks Virlym!!!

Agreed Thrasios, Triton Hero or a Kess, Dissident Mage way more value for Fish-Consul, was hoping for some flavor, along with the easiest win in commander today. Goal is to build a fun, rogue style deck, but that I can play in High power format games, 8+. I'll think on the fish overnight, certainly is powerful (and lots of interaction in the format to deal with it, a couple you identified). Doomsday without fish wouldn't be good either, too much work and weird cards would have to be put in without it. I defintely want a focused strategy not just play stuff for needing to play it.

Agreed Mana Vault is wrong, not on curve, going to replace that one with something. Dark Ritual I think I might need, a T1 Opposition Agent or Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion, maybe an Arcane Signet into an Unblockable with a Sensei's Divining Top lots of scenarios I can see using that {b}{b}{b} Dauthi Voidwalker that grabs me a fetchland I can use to not miss my T3 land drop, etc.

For Mox Opal I haven't done an analysis "yet", i have calculated the hypergeometric probabilities and charted them, see Kaalia Deck, but it's generally low, even lower with no Mana Vault.

The land selection supports the Thassa's Oracle + Tainted Pact, if you have any duplicate cads (including basic lands) then Tainted Pact doesn't work as a Tutor or a win enabler. I included the basic & it's snow-covered counterpart for maximum coverage there. I'm prioritizing lands that 1) Never enter tapped, 2) are T1 useable lands. Spire of Industry might not be right, similar argument to Mox Opal what is it's activation probability. Could go back to Tarnished Citadel or Ancient Tomb maybe? I dont like the colorless, or maybe just an Island like Cephalid Coliseum. I've tried finding another dual colored land that meets the criteria but can't which is why I landed on Spire of Industry. If I abandon fish-pact, can add more basics.

Satoru Umezawa I had a hard time. His CMC4 activated ability is useless, I was more evaluating on the following 1) Whenever Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow commander ninjitsu, I get to a) Look at the top 3 cards of library, b) Choose one for my hand (a counterspell or land or something), c) was a ninja lol. Looking again, his ability isn't a "may" so he's actually going to break the sorcery speed top deck manipulators like Imperial Seal or Personal Tutor, so he's bad, needs to come out, the draw isn't worth disrupting the synergy of the deck.

Viscera Seer has goldfished ok with me so far, why i've liked him a) He is CMC 1, so could be an early swing unblocked to commander ninjitsu and doesn't cost much to recast, b) He can put Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow back into the command zone, so that she can commander ninjitsu in "unblockable" again, dont want her stuck on the board with no way to attack, c) The top deck manipulation helps drawing what you need when you need it or getting rid of a card so that you can connect with a bigger spell. He also protects my stuff from exile effects, or effects that might turn her into an indestructible insect or a land or whatever all those things want to do! d) Can block and sac against lifelink (if that matters, probably not), not giving their footing back when I'm trying to kill with my Yuriko ability. He's not critical value, but having a way to consistently cast that unblockable, commander ninjitsu, replay the unblockable and get Yuriko back in command zone, is good isn't it? Cunning Evasion dpes this for all ninjas where Viscera Seer only works with Yuriko.

Praetor's Grasp probably wrong. Reevaluating there thanks.

I don't like that Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar only triggers once, thought he was for each creature. Hmm. If unblocked draw a card. If blocked return to hand vs. if blocked return to hand. Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar gives them additional incentive to block, but not much more, it's an extra card per turn, with the unblockables it should be anyway, so like a Phyrexian Arena with a second ability? Easier to remove. Cunning Evasion really just de-incentifies the block, especially if Yuriko on the field, but most stuff is unblockable or will draw a card. So point taken, is the extra card here or there worth the extra mana, and making it easier to remove, hmm. Maybe both are good?

Opposition Agent agent certainly is good stuff, but it has so many benefits a) It's a CMC3 instant speed tutor (for a land, any card, multiple lands, etc). It's going to get you something you want b) It's an essential stax piece, the higher power you get, the more value he is, essentially it stax locks down oppoents lands (too many fetches not enough basics the higher you get), finding an answer to you board (no looking for a board wipe for your ninjas (high power usually have 1 or 2 and rely on tutors to find it when needed), or even looking for an answer to Yuriko. Opponents durtle under Opposition Agent unless they have a removal "in hand" forces them to draw into a solutions, under a restricted mana base, decks playing 10-20 tutors shuts down 20% of their deck, slows them down etc. Until they ban this card that should never have been printed, or at least printed in White instead, have to play him. In Mid>High games or lower, he's far less useful as you see more basic lands, or more enters tapped, more draw effects and fewer tutors understandably.

This is really fantastic discussions, appreciate it, hopefully not consuming too much of your time :)

Thousand-Faced Shadow, I got hyper focused on his CMC4 ninjitsu for a "lack luster" ability and didn't even consider he's a CMC1 with flying evasion built in, that's also a ninja! Who cares about his dumb ability! He's going in 100%.

Mist-Syndicate Naga he's really just a 3/1 for 3 (bad), no evasion (bad), ninjitsu is CMC3 (bad, why not CMC1?). He replicates and then exponentially populates, but you can't bounce the copies to hand to protect them, and as with exponential growth, it's the T1-3 growth that kills you, the game isn't going to go long enough for him to deliver the value he could, let's say on T14 of a game, his T4 swinging. It's extra draw, but how is this guy getting through all these times to draw the cards, and why would I even Ninjitsu him lol. Can't get there on this guy.

Moon-Circuit Hacker and Ninja of the Deep Hours I keep thinking about though, their Ninjitsu costs are reasonable, but can't decide what they take the place of, a control card? a tutor card? That tutor finds me a win-con piece, a big spell for Yuriko to hit with, or a Ninja that delivers more advantage. However, if Yuriko is offline for whatever reason, they can draw into a solution themselves. In reconsidering mode on those. Thought I was close to having the list, your points have made me reconsider so many things.

The other low-cost ninjitsu are a little too situational and for like Mid>High games where board state matters more. The higher you get, the less important a board state is, and other than disrupting 1 player at sorcery speed (since Ninjitsu is on your turn, during attack, and only unblocked) it's utility is low. If the games are 5-7 power level, things tend to come out, wait around a turn before they do their thing in 7+ "usually" the thing comes out and it's already done it's thing Dockside Extortionist or a creature with haste that activates, etc. There are some exceptions like an Esper Sentinel or something, but in general Destroy/bounce are usually bad, want Exile at instant speed to have more "interaction".

Doomsday isn't really necessary, it's just an easy T1 win-con that tutors all the cards in combo. I haven't figured the stack but probably 1BBBB (5CMC T1 win), 1BB with a dark ritual. I'll build the stacks but that seems right. T2 win with lots like Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox. I'm just not 100% sold if it's needed and also means can cut Plunge into Darkness as well, although I think Night's Whisper would still stay even without Doomsday. Fish-consul is UUB T1 or Fish-pact 1UUB, so there are more efficent lines than Doomsday. There is a BBB Doomsday win-line but too many cards that don't synergize well with the commander in the deck.

Thanks so much, a bunch more modifications to the decklist coming tonight! Was extremely helpful.

Spirits on Yuriko, Shadow of Fate EDH

2 years ago

Hey Virlym,

Thanks for all the great information, very much appreciated.

I've removed River of Tears and replaced with Tarnished Citadel. I prefer not to rely on an Island or Swamp for something like Drowned Catacomb (Not a T1 land) or Choked Estuary. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is out, likely helps opponents more than me anyway. Can't decide if Ancient Tomb any good here or if it's better than Tarnished Citadel, I think the T1 is more important than .

Wingcrafter T1, and then Commander Ninjitsu doesn't give it flying? T3 it's paired with Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow. It's unlikely it won't have a target to attack T2 though without flying, not 100% but pretty likely.

Tormented Soul totally makes sense with the number of cards that need to pitch blue cards, and with how many CMC1 unblockables there are.

Prosperous Thief feels ok with the treasure, but only creating one is borderline. Am I missing any other key ninjas? There are a couple with ninjitsu with CMC1 which isn't bad for the draw, but their own abilities not that exciting?

Scheming Symmetry in Fallen Shinobi as you suggested or even a Opposition Agent or Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion will deliver maximum value for after Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow punches for 12 damage.

I think Thassa's Oracle will be the main win-con, and Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow damage with control/turns will be the alt. Avoid diluting any more cards. If Thassa's Oracle is exiled, likely games over before could get to a second anyway, Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow is always there and can be taken advantage of.

Should Moon-Circuit Hacker be in here too for another drawing ninja? Or just try and tutor the best ninjas and try an win?

Kaito Shizuki feels wrong tempo / timing for the deck to me. I'll let others test him lol.

Scry 3 seems good, adding the Augury Owl to my maybeboard.

I'm thinking this is v1 for testing? Any glaring misses I should fill before spending a million bucks ehre lol.

RedBullMan2 on Let the Bodies Hit the Floor

2 years ago

I think you have way too many lands for a mono black deck (maybe around 34≈35, thats how many i usually play, you might like having more tho). Also i cant understand the reason of some lands such as Tarnished Citadel or Swarmyard (maybe they combo somehow and i dont see it or i dont know the combo) and one last thing a mono black deck without Cabal Coffers is kinda sad (unless if you dont own it and you didnt put it in here obviously). The deck is quite nice overall.

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