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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Block Constructed | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Modern | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Pauper | Legal |
| Pauper Duel Commander | Legal |
| Pauper EDH | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Tiny Leaders | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Rules Q&A
Downpour
Instant
Tap up to three target creatures.
keizerbuns on
Sea of Attrition [Physical] [Beta]
1 year ago
This is a very cool concept, however it seems a little scattered. With lifegain, mill, tokens, tap/bounce control, stat manipulation, and creature stealing, it seems like your deck is being pulled in too many different directions without enough focus on any one thing in particular to give it a clear identity. Mill especially is kind of an all or nothing strategy that requires the entire deck to be built around it in order to work. Unless you have a really good mill/graveyard payoff to justify splashing in some mill spells, milling your opponent for just a few cards here and there won’t do anything except take up slots in your deck.
The best advice I think I could give you, and probably the same advice most other people will give you too, is to find your favourite element or two of the deck, and make that the focus. However, if you don’t want to do that, and you do want to keep the deck as a little bit of everything, I do have some suggestions that I think you might like.
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My first suggestion would be to replace Dreadwaters with a lower CMC mill spell, because spending 4 mana to make one opponent mill for what I assume averages to be around 4-6 cards isn't a great rate. For just 2 mana you could use Maddening Cacophony and make each opponent mill 8 cards, and for an extra 4 you could make them mill half of their decks. You could also replace a couple of Islands with a couple copies of Ipnu Rivulet for some added milling consistency, although activating its mill ability would cause you to lose a land.
Talrand's Invocation also suffers from the same issue as Dreadwaters of just being too mana intensive for such a small effect. Paying 4 mana just to get 2 2/2 flyers is a little slow. I think Murmuring Mystic would suit you better as a long term token generator.
Ichthyomorphosis and Time of Ice both kind of get in the way of your plan to steal your opponent's creatures. Ichthyomorphosis turns your opponent's creatures into something not worth stealing and Time of Ice could potentially cause a creature you just stole from your opponent to be sent back to their hand. Instead of using Time of Ice to tap your opponents creatures, you could use an instant or a sorcery such as Downpour, Impede Momentum, Choking Tethers, or Sleep to achieve the same result. And instead of Ichthyomorphosis to permanently turn your opponents creatures into something small, you could use Turn to Frog which you can use to catch your opponents by surprise during the combat stage. Swapping both Ichthyomorphosis and Time of Ice for instants and sorceries would also synergize great with Murmuring Mystic to spam tokens.
You could replace Staff of the Mind Magus with Diamond Mare, which is admittedly a weaker life gain spell since it can't gain life off of your lands entering the battlefield, plus it's more susceptible to removal. However it is a cheaper CMC card and another creature to beat your opponents down with.
I think Niblis of Frost is better than Dragon Turtle at keeping your opponent's creatures tapped if you go with the previously mentioned replacements for Ichthyomorphosis and Time of Ice, plus with the Prowess ability, it can get pretty big with all of the instants and sorceries. And Sower of Temptation is a lower CMC version of Mind Flayer.
I also realized as I was looking back through my suggestions, that if you do end up going with all of them, then that would mean your deck would meet the deck requirements to add Gyruda, Doom of Depths as a companion, which would serve as a pretty good payoff for your mill cards!
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Hopefully this was helpful!
TheVectornaut on
Blue Green Something
3 years ago
I love taking a pile of cards and seeing what you can turn it into! I don't know which cards you have or what budget you have for acquiring new ones, but I'll list some cheap suggestions I have for a variety of archetypes you could pursue.
1) Simic ramp: Already goes well with Air Elemental, Archetype of Endurance, Oakgnarl Warrior, Overgrown Battlement, Yavimaya Wurm, Simic Keyrune. Some inclusions might be Llanowar Elves, Axebane Guardian, Coiling Oracle, Maraleaf Pixie, Beanstalk Giant, Terra Stomper, Lorthos, the Tidemaker. The goal is to accelerate into big threats.
2) U/G unblockable: Already goes well with Marang River Prowler, Downpour, Giant Growth, Might of the Masses, Aqueous Form, Coastal Piracy, Turntimber Grove. Some inclusions might be Curious Obsession, Daring Saboteur, Mist-Syndicate Naga, Ohran Viper, Trygon Predator, Distortion Strike. The goal is to get value from hitting with unblocked creatures.
3) U/G tempo/control: Already goes well with Breaching Hippocamp, Cloaked Siren, Mist Raven, Fog, Negate, Unsummon, Voyage's End, Claustrophobia. Some inclusions might be Vapor Snag, Dissolve, Mana Leak, AEtherling, Delver of Secrets  Flip, Devastation Tide. The goal is to deny the opponent their things while playing tricky threats of your own.
I also see cards in here that could work with mono green Assault Formation, simic +1/+1 synergy, or flying tribal, so you have a lot of options. As a sidenote, I'd also recommend upping your land count to about 24 while you have so many 5+ cost cards in the deck. Anyway, good luck!
visland on
Talrand vs Everybody *Live*
3 years ago
-Windreader Sphinx (just too big cmc)
-Pongify (budget)
-Arcane Denial (budget)
-Counterspell (budget)
-Island x 2
GoblinElectromancer on
3 years ago
Take out Downpour, Silent Submersible, Sphinx of Magosi, Animating Faerie, Reach Through Mists, Arrester's Admonition, Sage's Row Denizen, Obsessive Search, and Clairvoyance.
I'l try to help more later. Good Luck!
Icbrgr on
4 years ago
My environment will mostly consist of tons of various aggro/tempo Tribal decks like Elves/Treefolk/Ninjas/Spirits/Faeries and Naya Small Zoo and Bant Blink/Wish Control centered around Venser, the Sojourner / Glittering Wish hence why I was pretty focused on Torpor Orb but I think graveyard hate/permanent removal should be able to stop Time Warp / Eternal Witness shenanigans.)... other things pop up here and there but those are the most common decks I'll be facing.
I was hoping proliferate would help me "speed up" kiora but I agree 9/10 I found myself wishing Steady Progress was just a Fog ... Currently I'm trying out Gigadrowse and so far it seems to be pretty effective; make me wanna also try Sleep / Downpour .
A full playset of Kiora seems pretty necessary to me so far in playtesting... im able to easily stall out a game to T12 but even then i've had plenty of cases of not drawing a single kiora just run out of Fogs by the time I do get one....otherwise at least a means to Tutor her... Thats why i was experimenting with Silent Arbiter but he is just too high CMC/hard to protect... Tamiyo, the Moon Sage might be really good in here as being a possible "target fog" or maybe even a one-sided mass draw... I have 2x copies of her so its a possibility; but might cost too much CMC?
definitely agree that Kiora, the Crashing Wave is a bit of a challenge to reach as a wincon but I really wanna feel rewarded when I get wins...she's a pet card of mine/my fiance and a steady stream of 9/9 Krakens is just too funny. (basically because of opponents using shock lands I just need to get 2 that can attack and then Whelming Wave / Gigadrowse G.G.)
Icbrgr on
Mono U tempo
4 years ago
looks pretty good... Gigadrowse is worth considering over Downpour imo because you can tap lands too.... Mizzium Skin might be better than Robe of Mirrors ... but i personally like to "set it and forget it" and have one less thing to worry about leaving mana open for.... and the there is also Vapor Snag as possibly being better than Unsummon . Remand is the priciest card that i can think of that this deck could really use... Spreading Seas is also worth considering as a remand alternative or sideboard option.
Cipher001 on Tap-Down Control
4 years ago
Flooremoji I think you're right. It pains me to get rid of one of the cards that inspired the idea, but it's just removal fodder at best in most matchups. One mana to get rid of a three mana card that doesn't do anything but possibly get bigger isn't a great trade-off from my end.
Demarge I went ahead and looked at the mtg goldfish meta page as well. Humans is the most popular deck, which uses a ton of creatures, but it's pretty much the only one, yeah. Right now, decks are very non-creature spell oriented. I think Gideon Jura would fit if I can justify his being a finisher for the deck. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage can at least keep lands and troublesome artifacts tapped down, and serves as draw power when enough creatures are tapped down. If you had to choose one, which would you choose? I'm leaning toward Gide on for the 6/6 indestructible for 5 mana.
aswordforthefallen As Demarge pointed out, the bulk of the decks right now aren't going to be focused on using creatures, so using creatures for them is a good way to go, I think. Hunted Phantasm is a good way to ensure that I can still get value from Verity Circle . That does incur the question for whether I should go wide with temporary effects that hit multiple creatures like Downpour and Feeling of Dread , or whether I should keep a smaller number of creatures consistently being tapped with enchantments like Curse of Chains . As for all-around value planeswalkers, what do you have in mind? I see Narset, Parter of Veils , Teferi, Time Raveler , and Teferi, Hero of Dominaria used a good deal.
Gidgetimer I don't think Pickles is what I want to go for. It's a neat way to work tap-down control, but I'd rather focus on cards that work specifically with tapping rather than abusing the morph mechanic. Thanks for the suggestion, though! It is a really interesting deck.
Funkydiscogod Quiet contemplation is a really good fit for the deck. The only problem I have with it is that by freeing up space for more traditional cards, I move away from my preferred aesthetic. Part of the problem here is that I've chosen a really inefficient form of control. For the one mana I could use on Gigadrowse , I could spend it on Path to Exile . What cards would you suggest to complement Quiet Contemplation while staying true to having tap-down effects being the primary method of control? Opt , for example, is a one mana draw card that can turn into a two-mana Frost Breath hybrid. I can't think of much else other than draw cards, though, that fit in the control scheme that don't remove the need for tap-down effects entirely. Do you think Frost Titan is too expensive to play, or is its built-in protection enough to warrant using it at 6 mana?
Thank you so much, everyone that's contributed! It means a lot to me that you're helping me out. I've had this idea for the longest time, but I just haven't been able to make it work by myself. You people rock!
