Creatures entering the battlefield don't cause abilities to trigger.
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Torpor Orb occurrence in decks from the last year
Torpor Orb Discussion
1 week ago
@TriusMalarky While Twin can force a land to get tapped on turn 3 to prevent 3 mana spells from getting cast you do need to remember doing so leaves the combo piece open to sorcery speed removal such as a Dreadbore , Flame Slash or Declaration in Stone in the first game and in the second and third game it allows cards like Torpor Orb or Blind Obedience to be played - tapping all out to put the combo piece down means you won't have counter-mana up to stop these effects from hitting the board and often the Twin player will instead choose to cast the combo piece on the endstep of their opponent's turn incase if there is a sorcery-speed threat such as T-orb that needs to be countered on their opponent's turn instead. The Twin player will (in most cases) only choose to preemptively tap down the land if they know their opponent is mana-screwed, if they don't have a counterspell in hand or if they know their opponent is running Twin to further stall the opponent's combo. With that said I wouldn't entirely discount 3 mana answers that can be made uncounterable by Cavern of Souls or Aether Vial or 3 mana spells that completely disable the deck beyond repair such as Unmoored Ego if they resolve.
I also think it would be more problematic for Twin decks to also splash in a third color for enchantment removal. One aspect that made Twin decks so oppressive was a solid portion of them would include copies of Blood Moon in the mainboard in order for it to be more difficult for their opponents to interact with their combo. Dedicating to a third color to run Dovin's Veto is going to come with not being able to run Blood Moon while being easier for the Twin deck to also get disrupted by an opponent's potential Blood Moon as well. On the other hand, Blood Moon has also been made weaker in the meta as Cleansing Wildfire and Force of Vigor make effective get out of jail free cards from sideboard.
Plus, I think you're undervaluing some cards in your assessment. Back when Twin was around the only one-mana spells that could remove an endstep flashed-in Deceiver Exarch was Path to Exile , Rending Volley , Vendetta and the ever so infrequent Skred and Lightning Axe and out of those, the only cards that were mainboard worthy was Path to Exile and Skred (which only worked if you were running a niche deck and you were going first with extra technicalities). Fatal Push has had a huge impact on the format being loads better than Vendetta which gives many more decks greater flexibility when holding removal mana up especially in game 1 given how playable it is in the mainboard. There's also Veil of Summer which also deserves mention and while you may see it as a simple upgrade to Autumn's Veil , fundamentally it's not. In the event I toss a Path to Exile or Fatal Push at a Pestermite and the Twin player responds with a Dispel , or as you suggested a Dovin's Veto , if I play an Autumn's Veil (which would effectively counter either counterspell), it would be a 2-for-2 trade. I lose the kill spell and veil to remove the Twin player's combo piece and counterspell. This lukewarm outcome is the reason why Autumn's Veil saw none if any modern play as Silence typically did its job better enough to warrant a splash in white over it in most cases if such an effect was absolutely needed in sideboard. Veil of Summer surpasses both because it has a built in cantrip that turns the interaction into a 1-for-2 trade in your favor and if the interaction happens while your opponent is trying to put a Splinter Twin on the combo piece it becomes a 1-for-3 trade in your favor. Veil of Summer 's value is by no means merely replacing Autumn's Veil or Silence 's role in the format, but more accurately it's replacing the clunkier Krosan Grip and Sudden Death that were typically used against the Twin-combo instead which makes it its own unique answer against the combo in my opinion.
Two more cards that I think also deserve further assessment is Sinister Concoction and Dovin's Veto . To say Dovin's Veto is just an upgrade to Negate I think is an understatement. "This spell can't be countered" is the reason Abrupt Decay was a banger of a card at thwarting Twin's machinations and I think the fact a Dovin's Veto can stop a Splinter Twin on cast makes it good enough to be a Twin-killer too. You suggested Twin might have to go into white to run its own Dovin's Veto es and Path to Exile s but I think the fact this card can also be used against Twin may be a more compelling reason for Twin to splash green over white just to have Veil of Summer as a necessary means to put up with the combined pressure Abrupt Decay and Dovin's Veto would have in keeping Twin in check as the Veil is the only card that can universally counteract both spells. (And even so Veil of Summer isn't a 100% failsafe as it has nothing against Rending Volley .) As for Sinister Concoction , I'm not going to pretend this card sees much Modern play, but this thing is a serious contender at throwing a wrench in Twin's plans and outside of Twin it's not an unplayable removal spell either. The reason why is it works much like your explanation for why Authority of the Consuls works - you can play it turn one and your opponent has no means to remove it without splashing a third color. Now Authority of the Consuls may be the more ideal card to use over it, but if your multicolor black deck can't splash white this is your next best thing and it even has some upsides over Authority of the Consuls . Sinister Concoction may be more fragile to effects like Stifle and Tale's End or effects like Spellskite and Apostle's Blessing , but it makes up for it when enchantment removal is thrown at it, as you can crack it in response to dumpster one of your opponent's creatures, in this case most likely a combo piece, while also rendering the enchantment removal as a waste in the process. This in turn is going to make the Twin player more cautious about playing their combo pieces before drawing into enchantment removal which can potentially delay the Twin player's progress harder than an Authority of the Consuls otherwise would. And if the Twin player doesn't have an answer, you'll always crack the Sinister Concoction in response to whatever creature they'll try to enchant with Splinter Twin to inflict the most damage. Even if you're playing on the draw or you draw into the card later, much like Authority of the Consuls , Sinister Concoction also bypasses quite a couple of Twin's favorite counterspells too such as Dispel , Spell Snare and Remand which is why I think the spell has much merit as yet another Twin-hate specific sideboard card that just wasn’t available to be utilized before in the past.
Lastly, the list I put up above was something I compiled over a quick gatherer search. I wouldn’t be surprised if I missed a few cards that may be just as worthy of discussion on countering Twin as well.
2 weeks ago
Glad you’re enjoying the list! However, I would suggest you do not deviate from what I’ve built. If safety is a concern, adding Dockside - a variable ramp piece - is a bad idea, particularly in a list oriented towards one creature. The combo line with Raza requires two creatures and one black minimum. I know with absolute certainty that I can generate 8 mana going into either PITA or Ad Naus, so if I wanted “safety” I’d play for Ad Naus (3 mana floating). Your opponents will have (or should have) fought the Divergent Transformations or Reality Scramble , so any measures beyond this(?) seem unlikely. On that note, if RS is what I have in hand and the combo’s available but I reveal into a Dockside, I’ve effectively done nothing. Dockside has become the crutch of many a player: 1. If there’s a Torpor Orb , Root Maze , Manglehorn , Null Rod ... It’s not providing acceleration when you need it or at all, 2. Often times it’s only best turn 4+, where this deck has the potential to DT (Divergent Transformation) or RS into a win prior, 3. The uncertain value of Dockside places it low on the totem pole, namely because 3.1 You will not have as much interaction in hand as it can potentially provide beyond what Burnt Offering provides into an Ad Naus and 3.2 Giving opponents the opportunity to copy, reanimate, steal ( Praetor's Grasp ), etc. your Dockside is a bum deal when you don’t need it, 4. When playing for a Reality Scramble build, you need to focus on a singular target to benefit the most from the build, so any additional creature is bad beyond the one. Dockside could be relevant, but this deck doesn’t need that crutch. Focus on a T1 Ad Naus or Tevesh, draw value, play to hard cast PITA/Ad Naus T2-4 or through the DT/RS line of play. I prefer certain things... When I go for Divergent, the worst threats are: Spellseeker , Drannith Magistrate , Collector Ouphe or Opposition Agent . If I know a list doesn’t have one of those, I hit their creature. I’ve yet to hit something “bad,” but I may at some point. That’s why you can always Divergent two thrull and sac Rograkh for Final Fortune .
2 weeks ago
Also, Withering Boon seems like a good card here in order to stop others from playing a game ending creature or other threat. I think you should also add Torpor Orb or Trinisphere to slow down the rest of the table as well.
Lastly, regarding lands - here are a few more ideas on what you might add:
- Ancient Tomb
- Castle Locthwain
- Cavern of Souls
- Geier Reach Sanitarium
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- War Room
However, I definitely do agree with Profet93 and I think Thespian Stage or Blast Zone can be useful.
3 weeks ago
I think you should go Nath of the Gilt-Leaf with staxs just like Tinybones, Trinket Thief I think he is better in the 99 of Nath than he is as a commander. Getting the discard and creating tokens since you are getting only a 1/1 elf no one going to think munch initially until you start locking them out.
Then you use more mana dorks and land ramp over artifact.
I mean there are lots of option depending on power level of the group and budget.
That is my suggestion as a commander to slide her into
1 month ago
Xianling69 I think you're expecting a bit more competitive playgroup than ours. There is some fragility built into my decks intentionally so I don't annihilate everyone every time. These are long, drawn out, multiplayer games. While taking out the creatures does hamper me some, there's enough redundancy with Maelstrom Archangel, Jegantha, and Orochi, that they can't stop me for long, and have to contend with the rest of the table. They can't run enough creature removal to take out all my stuff and not let someone else get out of hand. My decks are budget, casual, and fun to play and to play against. And we have a house rule that occasional board wipes are ok, repeated board wipes are not. Kaheera will work well in the Quartzwood Crasher deck because it gives my creatures vigilance. I'm in a multiplayer environment. If I want to attack every turn, I have to be very careful about leaving myself vulnerable to crack back - because there are at least 3 others that can attack me. I'm not running a full playset of Kaheera, but I have it in the side as companion and one in the main deck for now, although the maindeck one may get dropped. I'm considering Garruk's Uprising in the deck, too, maybe as a 1 or 2 of. It would help with Keeper of Fables for card draw, although I've got a couple of copies of Garruk's Companion, so in flux on that part of the package. It's still a work in progress for sure, and may change quite a bit before it's finished. I probably need to come up with some form of lifegain and artifact/enchantment removal, and still finalizing the ramp package. We have a bit of Torpor Orb and similar effects running around our meta right now, so I try to avoid depending on too many enter the battlefield effects.
1 month ago
1 month ago
Against those specific decks... maybe Torpor Orb would do the trick?