Choose target creature card in a graveyard that was put there from the battlefield this turn. Put that card onto the battlefield under your control.
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|Magic 2014 (M14)||Rare|
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Grim Return occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%
Grim Return Discussion
2 weeks ago
MrKillStar thank for your feedback. Some of those cards I actually considered but other's didn't even cross my mind, let's break it down.
Massacre Wurm is actually one that I tottally forgot about, it does fit well in the deck, gotta figure out what to cut tho, it was hard enough already had to cut around 20 cards before posting the changes to the deck...
Liliana of the Dark Realms has been in the deck before, several times, I do like her but when it comes to practical terms it does give me 1 or 2 swamps but my table never allows me to ult her, the few times I was able to ult her I won the game soon after and they know they can't let that happen, so I decided to remove her considering most times I play her to die next turn.
Lake of the Dead is nice, and I considered it before, but for the price it costs I'd rather not add it, I don't have the money for it.
Grim Return has been in the deck since it's first version, this is the only version of the deck where I actually cut it out, because I realized altho the card is good most of the times it would just be in my hand doing nothing because I'd want to save it for better creatures, although now with the new rules where the commander does hit the grave before being moved to the command zone, it would allow me to steal the commanders, hmmm might reconsider it. But again, idk what to cut in order to add that one, for 2 more mana Thrilling Encore does a better job.
Bloodcurdling Scream/Howl from Beyond, I only knew the latter of those but I prefer Hatred for that purpose. Actually I chose this name for the deck exactly because of Hatred as it was the main win-con when I first did it.
Tainted Strike would be a great addition if our playgroup played with the 10 infect death, but we changed it to 20 infect in our playgroup to be more "fair". Long story short some years ago a dude won with infect, like big time and people got triggered that it wasn't fair, yada yada, so the majority voted on changing the infect rule between us to 20 instead of 10, way to kill infect decks... So it's not worth in this context as it is basicly the same as cmdr dmg. However if I ever change playgroup sure I'll add Tainted Strike, I have a copy somewhere here.
The big X spells I'd rather just have a few of them, the ones currently in the deck, although you did suggest some interesting stuff, but I don't want many of those. As for Death Wind I had it in the deck before but I decided to replace it with Defile, most of the times it will have the same potential effect because the deck is mono-black plus I have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth but I will be spending only 1 mana instead. Black Sun's Zenith is already in it btw.
I do like the versitality of Damnable Pact, it can be used to finish off an opponent or simply for you to draw, and I have considered adding it a few times but I don't see anything worth trading for it.
Anyway, thanks a lot for your input, I'll take a better look at your suggestions and see if there's something I can trade for any of those.
2 weeks ago
Pretty interesting deck :3
I could suggest:
Massacre Wurm - small-scale boardwipe (+Sudden Spoiling); MW also supports your Forbidden Orchard + Illness in the Ranks to slowly drain your opponents out.
Liliana of the Dark Realms - Her ultimate would help you a lot to cast big Exsanguinate/Torment of Hailfire. It might not always work, but you can at least fetch few swamps out of the deck.
Lake of the Dead - A bit pricey land from Reserved List, but it might help a lot aswell.
Grim Return - This could be good, when your commander kills something, just cast this, stealth the killed creature and re-do it next turn? Maybe.. just maybe.
Bloodcurdling Scream/Howl from Beyond - Ramp up, cast this and swing for lethal c.dmg with Umezawa?
Tainted Strike - Sneaky infect? Also insant for only one !
Big black spells with X? Consume Spirit - any target with lifesteal; Damnable Pact - possible card draw or finisher;Death Cloud - big mean cloud!; Death Wind - single target version of Black Sun's Zenith; Profane Command - this card is just great.
Black Market can be silly on its own, even sillier in token decks though... I personally buff it even more with Desecrated Tomb + Tortured Existence (+Phyrexian Altar to go infinite etb/etg triggers). I think any deck running black could use Tortured Existence, just to recover any creature from your graveyard you need at the moment and/or for madness.
4 months ago
Alright, let's see if maybe this will help. I'm really new to everything on here sorry. //Lands 2 Dismal Backwater 1 Dimir Guildgate 2 Submerged Boneyard 4 Evolving Wilds 2 Desert of the Mindful 1 Arcane Lighthouse 1 Reliquary Tower 1 Temple of the False God
//Spells 4 Duress 2 Ghoulcaller's Chant 3 Macabre Waltz 3 Sleep 4 Slip Through Space 2 Taigam's Scheming 4 Tome Scour 4 Lich's Caress 4 Sovereign's Bite 4 Resourceful Return 3 March of the Returned 1 In Garruk's Wake 1 Army of the Damned 1 Dutiful Return 1 Decompose 1 Worst Fears 1 Rise of the Dark Realms 4 Hubris 4 Countermand 1 Tezzeret's Touch 1 Paranoid Delusions 1 Coerced Confession 2 Mind Sculpt 1 Compelling Argument 1 Index 1 Redirect 1 Dream Twist 2 Gift of Tusks 2 Rewind 3 Thought Scour 2 Psychic Spiral 1 Gigadrowse 4 Negate 1 Overwhelming Denial 1 Dramatic Reversal 1 Impulse 2 Cremate 3 Crypt Incursion 2 Grim Harvest 1 Scarab Feast 1 Grim Return 1 Gravepurge 1 Dark Ritual 4 Font of Return 3 Death's Approach 2 Cast into Darkness 1 Triskaidekaphobia 1 Grave Betrayal 1 Endless Ranks of the Dead 3 Invisibility 2 Curiosity 4 Curse of the Bloody Tome 3 Illusory Wrappings 3 Ice Over 1 Chronic Flooding 1 Navigator's Ruin 1 Chant of the Skifsang 3 Bone Saw 3 Millstone 3 Tormod's Crypt 2 Trepanation Blade 1 Ghoulcaller's Bell 1 Masterwork of Ingenuity 1 Sol Ring 1 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Illusionist's Bracers 1 Codex Shredder 1 Profane Memento 1 Loxodon Warhammer 1 Bonehoard 1 Trusty Machete 1 Mirari 1 Argentum Armor
//Creatures 1 Archetype of Finality 1 Overeager Apprentice 1 Agent of Erebos 1 Butcher Ghoul 1 Risen Executioner 1 Dutiful Attendant 1 Sly Requisitioner 1 Sepulchral Primordial 2 Zombie Assassin 1 Nightmare 1 Marshmist Titan 3 Graven Abomination 4 Workshop Assistant 4 Guardians of Meletis 2 Phyrexian Revoker 2 Ornithopter 1 Juggernaut 2 Veilborn Ghoul 2 Minotaur Abomination 4 Undead Servant 3 Gravedigger 2 Mogis's Marauder 2 Bogstomper 4 Walking Corpse 3 Corpse Hauler 4 Gravewaker 2 Returned Phalanx 3 Faerie Miscreant 1 Master of Predicaments 2 Benthic Giant 1 Stormtide Leviathan 4 Screeching Skaab 2 Seer of the Last Tomorrow 1 Floating-Dream Zubera 3 Fog Bank 1 Possessed Skaab 3 Armored Skaab 2 Murmuring Phantasm 1 Wall of Frost 4 Doorkeeper 1 Clever Impersonator 1 Jace's Mindseeker 1 Oculus 1 Mindshrieker 1 Willbreaker 1 Spellweaver Eternal 1 Wall of Mist 1 Sultai Skullkeeper 1 Diregraf Captain
5 months ago
It works for putting Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger on the battlefield, but you'll still have to sacrifice Kroxa. You'll at least get another copy of Kroxa's discard/life loss ETB trigger.
The reason it doesn't quite work for sneaking Kroxa onto the battlefield is because of Kroxa's first triggered ability. Unless Kroxa escaped--meaning you used Kroxa's Escape ability to cast it--you will have to sacrifice Kroxa when it enters the battlefield. This can be from hard-casting it for , reanimating it with Grim Return, putting it onto the battlefield tapped and attacking with Ilharg, the Raze-Boar (and it won't even get to the Declare Blockers step), or any other number of means. If it didn't escape, then you trigger Kroxa's first ability.
5 months ago
I figured since he enters the battlefield but is sacrificed that Grim Return could be a cheap and effective way to sneak him onto the battlefield.
I was just curious because I've seen no decks running it.
6 months ago
triproberts12 thanks for commenting on the deck! I have some drawing spells in there already like Necrologia and Ambition's Cost but I do like your suggestions for lower cost draw spells. My concern with Skeletal Scrying is exiling potentially useful cards since my graveyard is basically the waiting area for all the instant recursion I'd like to see mid-game. I like Moonlight Bargain and am searching for a place to add that particular friend. Because I'm so creature light, I haven't really cared much to use a lot of anti-instant defense in this but I'm considering removing some of my current instants to incorporate some of your suggestions. After I play this a few more times as is, I'll see if some slots merit that defensive capability. For the other synergy options you suggested, some of them I thought the CMC cost too high for their effect or already had a means to do a similar thing ( like Mirari for example, I have Primal Amulet Flip to offer spell copies and add the cost reduction beforehand!). Of your list, I loved the idea of adding Isochron Scepter and Runechanter's Pike ! Mixing Isochron with Dark Ritual or Cabal Ritual for mana, Thrilling Encore or Grim Return to add friends from other graveyards to Toshiro's party, or Liliana's Triumph , Snuff Out , or Go for the Throat for unending killing/sacrificing fun! And Runecrafter's just amps the crap out of (most likely) Toshiro for another avenue of commander damage FTW. Thank you for all your suggestions!
8 months ago
Hey man! I found you on youtube. I've been searching for fellow Koko players. it's crazy how few of us there are!
I recently built my Kokusho deck and it's become my absolute favorite deck to pilot. I love your deck and I'm totally stealing some of the cards you run. I'm gonna throw my deck at you too and see if you like any of the ideas I have, one fellow Kokusho player to another. These are just ideas or suggestions, take 'em or leave 'em obviously.
Soldevi Adnate - Wait a turn sac outlet. Soldevi can only be used once per turn but it gives you 6 mana!
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed - An extra reanimat in between every reanimate you're able to complete without him. clutch!
Chainer, Dementia Master - Arguable should be the commander, but I prefer him in the 99 myself. But yeah if I could only run one creature in the 99 I think this would be it.
K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth - So much value, especially if you have a Jet Medallion in play. It feels like you're casting everything for free. K'rrik + Chainer + Koko (in GY or on the battlefield) + any sac outlet = combo for the win.
Villis, Broker of Blood - For us he basically says "x: draw x cards, then draw x cards again" that is mana efficient card draw.
Personally I only run 8 creatures in the 99. These 5 absolutely make the cut. (Gary, Disciple, and Crypt Ghast are my other picks which you are already running. Gonti I sometimes throw in just for fun, he doesn't make the deck more powerful but he's fun to play in casual pods. I like stealing cards from people.)
We actually don't have any sorceries in common. Although I have been considering adding Exsanguinate. Anyway, here are some I suggest:
Reanimate - the Original Gangsta of reanimation. The namesake thereof. Very mana efficient. It hurts us a tiny bit in the life lost department. But you came to the right place if you want some life to spend.
Bubbling Muck - very good min-late game ramp spell.
Damnation - An efficient board wipe. It's basically Wrath of God in black.
Toxic Deluge - Also very efficient for us who love to spend life. It can get around indestructible too. I actually feel like I should be running MORE board wipes. Afterall, I have a creature that wants to die and I have very few other creatures. But these two were the best I could find. I also might add Mutilate .
Demonic Tutor - a Classic.
Diabolic Intent - Sac outlet plus a tutor.
Praetor's Grasp - i love stealing from opponents. You can usually find someone at the table that you think will have an Ashnod's Alter. But you can always find something good.
Scheming Symmetry - I like being political and making deals, this is a good way to do that.
Exhume - I can usually find a time to use it when it won't benefit opponents too much. Either way, it's 2 mana to reanimate Koko.
Footsteps of the Goryo
- 3 mana to reanimate. Plus it sacs at end of turn, although i often have sac'd and reanimated it again by that time.
You have a lot of Graveyard to hand effects, which are great, but I much prefer Graveyard to Battlefield.
Instants. I don't have Thrilling Encore but it is my style of play, so i just might add that one. I don't have Tragic Slip either but I can't say it's a bad card. Definitely a good removal spell.
I do have the other three that you have and they are amazing.
a few more I like:
Abnormal Endurance - 2 mana to pre-reanimate or "Preanimate" if you will.
Corpse Dance - 3 mana to reanimate. Plus Koko can come in and swing for 5 in the air so that's a plus. I almost never attack with him otherwise. Buyback on this makes it an absolute must.
Goryo's Vengeance - 1 mana to reanimate, again with haste! you want a sac outlet though else it exile at end of turn. (sends Koko back to command zone, but still, you're rather he die again of course. This one can actually be spliced onto the other Goryo which is fun and seldom happens. lol plus you can't target Koko with both of them if you do it that way, but hey, maybe you get Gary AND Koko.
Grim Return - 3 mana to bring back anything from any graveyard. Usually Koko, but maybe you want something else from someone else's bin. this can get it done. Instant speed is nice.
Sacrifice - one time sac outlet but also net 5 mana ritual! not bad at all.
Shallow Grave - This one, like Corpse Dance, picks only the top card so be careful the order you put things into graveyard. 2 mana to reanimate. yes please.
Undying Evil - very similar to Supernatural Stamina although I actually prefer this one because it leaves him up to block in case you need that.
Vampiric Tutor - not budget at all obviously. But if you have one, this is a great place for it.
Wake the Dead - Kind of niche, but you can usually sac at instant speed so waiting for opponents turn isn't so bad normally. 3 mana to reanimate Koko and sac him again. already quite good. but you could pay 1 more and bring back Gary too if he's in there. 1 more brings back . . .Runescarred Demon or whatever. it only gets better and better in the late game with more mana available and more cards in the graveyard.
Blade of Selves - So this is my number 1 recommendation. It's my favorite card in all of MTG and it's the reason I even wanted to make this deck. I use BoS in my green decks a lot, and I have never made a black deck before but I kept thinking how awesome this would be on Kokusho so... here we are. As long as you have 3 opponents this card says "at the beginning of your combat step gain 30 life and each opponent loses 10 life." Plus you're swinging for 5 in the air so you can point that at the person with the highest life total and hopefully keep all opponents closer together so you don't get to that awkward late game where Koko dies and only gains you 5 or 10 life. Token copies can be abused as well. For instance, You swing Koko equipped with Blade, 2 tokens ETB, you kill one and then let's say you keep the other one and send the real koko to the graveyard because you have an instant speed reanimate effect but no sac outlet. You reanimate him and bam, legend rule triggers again and you kill him again or kill the token this time. You will have to spend 4 more mana to re-equip Blade but it can be worth it at times. Speaking of token copies of koko...
Minion Reflector - Basically a colorless Bramble Sovereign, another card that I love love love in my green decks. Minion reflector makes a copy, kills the real guy, the copy can attack, then maybe you reanimate Koko and let the copy die this time.
- This can be another Cabal Coffers, or a copy of an opponent's Zendikar Resurgent... it's insanely versatile.
you could stack triggers, making it become a copy of Kokusho and then before that resolves you make it a copy of Soldevi Adnate who you just cast. Soldevi has summoning sickness but Mirage Mirror doesn't so you become a copy of Soldevi, then tap to sac Kokusho and add 6 mana, then the first activation resolves and Mirage Mirror becomes Kokusho who isn't even around anymore. It's tapped, but that doesn't matter much, you can sac it for value, or maybe reanimate Kokusho who comes back into what otherwise would have been no sac outlet but now the legend rule triggers and you get another death trigger. End of turn Mirage Mirror is just a tapped Mirage Mirror again.
Mirror of the Forebears - even cheaper version of Mirage Mirror but not nearly as versatile. I always name "Spirit" because Koko is my only dragon but Crypt Ghast is a Spirit so there's a chance I'll want MotF to be a Crypt Ghast later on. Usually though it just becomes a Kokusho until end of turn to give me free repeatable "sacrifice" (not really but essentially the same thing). speaking of dragons...
Dragon's Hoard - This is fun, although I might take it out because there are more powerful things that could be added. But yeah, it's a 3 mana mana rock. Ramp is kind of important early game when you have a 6 mana commander and your whole deck revolves around him. But then you start adding Gold Counters and now it's an extra card you get to draw pretty much every turn.
Phyrexian Altar - Yeah I'd choose Ashnod's over this but it's a close second. well worth the slot IMO.
Blasting Station - Another great sac outlet. Repeatable. and you can ping down opponents' life totals or ping their small utility creatures.
Bolas's Citadel - This is how you get card advantage in mono black. And with koko we have plenty of life to spend! Finishes the game a little faster too, as soon as opponents are under 10 life you might be able to sac everything and tka 'em to 0.
Cauldron of Souls - Not as good as Mikaeus because he might reanimate Koko 2 or 3 times in a turn, but Cauldron is still awesome and can reanimate everybody you've got. Plus, being an artifact, it's a little more resilient than Mike.
Cursed Totem - I might take this out since stax aren't my style. But it is very powerful. Chainer, Vilis, and Soldevi are the only creatures in my entire deck that this hurts.
Jet Medallion - I'm often casting 3 or 4 spells in a turn so this can really put in the work.
Lifeline - interesting effect. it's symmetrical so be careful. but trust me, you'll get more use form it than they will. But yeah, I'd rather play group hug effects that benefit me more than they rather than stax effects that hurt they more than me. Anyway, this brings back anything that dies at the end of the turn, as long as there is another creature on the battlefield. When i'm not trying to win very hard and I just want a fun interesting game this will often be the target of my tutors. If I wanna win I grab Chainer and K'rrick :)
Strionic Resonator - Guess what's better than getting one death trigger from a dying Spirit Dragon? . . .
Well of Lost Dreams - Draw as many cards as you want for 1 mana each. not a bad deal at all.
Wishclaw Talisman - Another tutor, but one that can make friends. I usually pick the person I want to befriend and I say ""I'ma use the first wish, I'll give you the second wish if you give me the third. Deal?" If they won't make the deal I pick another opponent. Someone is likely willing to do it, and you end up with basically 2 Demonic Tutors.
You have amazing enchantments. I don't yet own Wound Reflection or Exquisite Blood but when I get them they will definitely go in this deck. Black Market is AMAZING, Sanguine Bond is a must. The others I don't run but they are great cards. A few I recommend:
Necropotence - After Vilis this is the best card draw spell in my deck. My playgroup always targets it because it can get crazy ESPECIALLY if you have Thought Vessel or Reliquary Tower in play. I've considered running Shimmer Myr and Vedalken Orrery so I can just draw my whole deck minus 1 or 2 cards, and then chain some rituals into Shimmer Myr into Vedalken Orrery into either a win or a Spellbook to keep my hand. But yeah, I don't run those right now. Just reliquary Tower and Thought Vessel. But even without those, I usually pay enough life to draw up to 10 and then I have to exile 3 cards. But it's so much card draw and card selection!
Attrition - Very nice creature removal
Gate to Phyrexia - Very nice artifact removal, although it has been annoying that it can only happen at upkeep. Still worth though!
Tainted AEther - Super mean stax piece. Great for the Kokusho player, not great for anyone else.
Lethal Vapors - This one is even meaner somehow. And I love that it has it's own demise onit. like "hey, you're welcome to end this meanness any time you want man..." My friends have learned to just kill it as soon as it comes out, it's just a matter of who will be the one to lose a turn for the team. pretty funny stuff.
Dawn of the Dead - Kinda like Lifeline but even better IMO. It reanimates at upkeep and gives haste. It's interesting that this and Cauldron of Souls and Chainer and Mikaeus and Lifeline and Corpse Dance with buyback all cost 5 mana. Apparently that's the sweetspot for repeatable reanimates.
Unholy Indenture - A preanimate effect that can steal opponents' creatures if you want to use it for that.
Kaya's Ghostform - Another preanimate for only 1 mana. Also beings it back from exile! I noticed you have a couple planeswalkers as well, this can bring them back too, with renewed loyalty of course, and ready to use a second tie if you killed them on your turn. It's just 1 mana! insane!
Necromancy , Dance of the Dead , and Animate Dead are three more reanimate spells. They have a lot of text but basically they bring koko from GY to battlefield. All three can steal from opponents' graveyards if you so choose. Necromancy can be played as an instant.
I'm currently re-thinking my lands package. I have Field of the Dead so I've kind of gone pretty heavily into running all differently named lands. I have a few Swamps, a few Snow-Covered Swamps, and then a bunch of great stuff and a bunch of janky terrible stuff lol. But I'm thinking i might clean it up a bit and go with more basics to help out Cabal Coffers more.
I'm super jealous of your Cavern of Souls. I would love to get one of those someday. And I too run Glacial Chasm. It can be a really important card in some games. A funny janky combo that I've never done but hope to one day is to have Glacial Chasm in play and Lethal Vapors and then I activate Lethal Vapor's skipping my next turn, but before it resolves and kills Lethal Vapors I activate it again, 1 billion times. Then it dies and I skip all my turns from now on, and if opponents don't have a way to destroy Glacial Chasm, or to drain me of life, then they eventually mill themselves out and lose. Obviously this is very situational, most of the time I feel like they'd be able to find a way to win, but it would be funny nonetheless.
Anyway, good card. Also Nephalia Academy. I didn't even know about that card but I'ma get one and start playtesting it. very interesting effect!
Geier Reach Sanitarium - Sometimes you really want a certain card in your graveyard, this can help you put it there.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - A classic. Don't forget it might help opponents too though.
Cabal Coffers - Pair with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for lots of manas.
Gemstone Caverns - Possible turn ramp with little downside.
Ancient Tomb - better in the early game than Temple of the False God. The life loss can add up though, even in a Kokusho deck. In casual meta with longer games it isn't quite as good as it is in cEDH.
Bojuka Bog - Your enemies might be as keen to play from their graveyard as you are. Hit them before they hit you.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All - depending on your meta it might be really important to have uncounterable sometimes. Especially when you tap out to cast a huge Exsanguinate. Nothing worse than having that Mana Drain'd
Buried Ruin - I have several Artifacts I love in this deck, but most of all my baby, Blade of Selves.
Field of the Dead - a powerhouse late game.
High Market - a sac outlet on a land. Run this card! and speaking of sac on a land...
Phyrexian Tower - this is super clutch. It's only once per turn but it's really really good to have.
Diamond Valley - ok I admit I don't own this so it's not in my deck. but if i had a spare 1000 bucks.... this is a great card. It doesn't tap for mana unless you have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play though.
Miren, the Moaning Well - a poor man's Diamond Valley. It does tap for mana though so it's got that over DiamondV. but it will cost 3 to tap it and sak Koko.
Mirrorpool - This taps for colorless, and comes into play tapped. so that suck. but... it can become a Kokusho token to that's pretty cool.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - An auto-include in any mono-color deck.
Reliquary Tower - Often overplayed in EDH but in a deck with Vilis or Necropotence it is definitely worth a slot.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse - Not worth it to buy this one for Koko. You pretty much never use it to give him Fear. But it is a differently named card for my Field of the Dead and there's not much downside so... I have it in there for now.
Thawing Glaciers - I think i might take this one out. I don't have many early game ramp spells so I thought this might be good but omg it's so slow! it was aptly named.
Witch's Cottage - This one is up your alley since you like returning from GY to top of library.
Volrath's Stronghold - is another such card with a very similar effect you might like.
I have Vesuva which usually copies Cabal Coffers. and I have Thespian's Stage and Dark Depths for my boi Marit Lage. They make for fun things to tutor from your two wishes on Wishclaw Talisman. There are stronger things that could be done but if you feel like just being silly and smashing face with a 20/20 indestructible flier then there's always that option.
Urborg is a silly land to run, i mean there's no downside other than it isn't a swamp. But there's really no upside either except for people saying "what the hell is that?" which can be fun. Most people have never heard of it and have been calling Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth by this name without realize it belongs to another.
Well if you made it to the end of my novel, congratulations. Let me know what you think of these cards and stay in touch so we can bounce Kokusho ideas off of each other.
9 months ago
Maybe replace your sorcery? I would maybe replace it with something like Grim Return so if Gary dies and you're able to deal damage again with his ability so you can (hopefully nuke your opponent to death). I would also suggest some cards that can handle disruptions like Thoughtseize (although expensive) you could get a card like Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek .