|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Duel Decks: Blessed vs. Cursed (DDQ)||Common|
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Creature — Human Scout
Flash (You may cast this spell at any time you could cast an instant.)
When Village Bell-Ringer enters the battlefield, untap all creatures you control.
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|Have (5)||MythicWinter111 , killstars , damo_rox , DaZlInG , aeonstoremyliver|
|Want (11)||darkdisciple , buildingadeck , Daeyel , mk102 , vaerth , teslacoil7992 , wants2belink , snowmaster55555atgmaildotcom , ApatheticHero , DarthMeatloaf , marsp44|
Village Bell-Ringer Discussion
3 weeks ago
Thanks for the kind comment.
Here's a rough guide / thought process I use when evaluating cards / combos / synergies:
1) Assumption: One player (possibly myself), will try and Combo on Turn 3/4, and generally by 5 at least
Realization: I don't have a lot of disruption, so will rely on Commanders built to prevent others and take advantage
A Teferi's Protection might buy me another turn to try and Combo or Eliminate the issue player.
2) Assumption: I'm Tier 3 (I truly believe Kaalia of the Vast is tier 2.5 built like this), yet seem to be a threat
Realization: Use their bias against them, they think I'm just Aggro/Pub Brawl, might leave me open here and there.
Yes, I'll still Master of Cruelties a Stax or Disruption or Tier 1 Commander, but...
3) Assumption: I'm not a Stax player, I'm trying to go fast too, don't be that guy
Realization: I have some Stax type plays, but I'm not a Stax player, whenever possible go for the win, often you win
4) Assumption: Razaketh, the Foulblooded almost always wins me the game.
Realization: Don't let others (like Animar, Soul of Elements) use him against me. Resolve and Win.
5) Assumption: I'm not going to output 40 x 3 (4-player pod assumed) = 120 by Turn 5
Realization: If I can do 40 damage by turn 5 and eliminate a player, and rely on others disruption, I can Combo on Turn 6/7
6) Evaluation: Does this card help me win the game by Turn 7? If no, then I usually exclude it
Is this card good, WITHOUT the other combo pieces? Example: Stranglehold is good on it's own, prevents win-cons and can stax (no searching) a Fetch land or Tutor. Maralen of the Mornsong provides an effective and lasting Synergy (won't say Combo, No more drawing for others), BUT Maralen of the Mornsong without a Stranglehold is not good WITHOUT the other combo piece. Maralen of the Mornsong can in fact give the win to the next player in turn.
Adarkar Valkyrie Evaluation:
1) She doesn't trigger with Kaalia of the Vast, because Adarkar Valkyrie enters tapped, also doesn't have haste, and requires to use. What that means is I have to wait 1 whole turn before she can be used vs. something like a Razaketh, the Foulblooded or Rune-Scarred Demon.
3) What are the other combo cards, and do they meet the test that they are good without Adarkar Valkyrie
Took me a long time to take Aurelia, the Warleader, can get into that discussion later.
Zealous Conscripts on it's own is also pretty good, he has Haste built in, can take an opponents permanents, can untap your permanents (like Adarkar Valkyrie or Sol Ring etc). He's not an A/D/D is his only down side, so with a CMC5 am I going to play him before Turn 5? Tough to say.
I'm probably going to tutor Restoration Angel because I can 1) Free cast with Kaalia of the Vast, 2) She is Instant speed (Flash), 3) She is CMC4 vs. Zealous Conscripts. So it becomes, do i need Zealous Conscripts. If I'm running Adarkar Valkyrie as well, then yes. Honestly Zealous Conscripts has been on the cusp for a long time, he is VERY good, probably better than Reveillark (who I almost never combo with), the only benefit to Reveillark is he brings back Grand Abolisher so I can actually pull off the combo without Disruption.
I'd almost always rather tutor Buried Alive or Reanimate or a missing piece, than a Adarkar Valkyrie. He really provides the same combo structure, but slower, same with Zealous Conscripts. If I'm hoping to just have a higher probability of drawing into a Zealous Conscripts to complete my combo I'm starting with an Assumption that isn't going to make my Turn 5 window usually. I need to Tutor/Win.
Combat Celebrant, Felidar Guardian, Sparring Mummy, Thornbite Staff, Village Bell-Ringer, Zealous Conscripts, Fiend Hunter, Karmic Guide, Lightning Crafter, Restoration Angel, Reveillark, Changeling Hero, Changeling Berserker all work with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, some need Sac, many don't.
Not sure if I answered your Zealous Conscripts question, but the best answer I can give is, I don't need him, I don't want to draw him, and he just does the job of Restoration Angel. Certainly you need alternatives, incase of Exile or Removal, I decided on Reveillark because he has other upside (downside is needs a Sac outlet), but Zealous Conscripts is quite reasonable and has utility on his own so I like him probably will make his way back in, at a higher CMC than someone like Village Bell-Ringer though who has no utility on his own, but IS turn 5 probable, but without Buried Alive probably neither works anyway, so why not just Restoration Angel and win?
The truth is any of them are viable options, it's about the supporting cards, the "wheel of support" you put around each of them, if there's multiple synergies then it's always good to have. Remember though, you only need to Combo once to win, the reality is, if your Disrupted, someone else will likely combo before you get a second chance anyway in cEDH. In standard EDH, you may have the time to draw cards into a Zealous Conscripts or hard cast a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker but probably not in cEDH.
Adarkar Valkyrie was in, she didn't work with Kaalia of the Vast and I never tutored Adarkar Valkyrie, and it needed Haste (Lightning Greaves/Dragon Tempest) and in most cases needed a Sac Outlet, so it ended up getting cut when Aurelia, the Warleader left. Adarkar Valkyrie I just found too difficult to manage, and 1 turn too slow.
I will say, if you are running Adarkar Valkyrie and Zealous Conscripts, definitely run Faithless Looting, maybe even Gamble. This differs than something like a Reanimator, If i could have more Reanimate (also use Animate Dead, Yawgmoth's Will which I view as CMC2 because I usually have a Fetch land to recur) then I LIKE drawing into those. When I draw a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker in my opening hand, I always Mulligan, and when I draw him in play I really really really regret having Faithless Looting out of the deck because I can't tutor it, and now I'm hoping to tutor a Goblin Bombardment and Reanimate a Buried Alive | Karmic Guide + Reveillark. In this situation a Zealous Conscripts isn't helping you anyway. On occasion I draw Restoration Angel but then I Buried Alive : Grand Abolisher and then Reanimate Karmic Guide then Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker then Grand Abolisher then Flash cast Restoration Angel and have the Grand Abolisher pretty much guaranteeing me the win. It's definetely higher CMC to hard was him, but still less than Zealous Conscripts.
My deck is still a work in progress though, I wish I had more time to play and really advance it with playtesting, but In theory, MOST of the time I would prefer a Tutor to another instance of a card I can tutor that is worse. Like Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are the same but CMC1 more, but I don't run Utter End because instead I draw a tutor, and search for Anguished Unmaking if that's what I really need, otherwise I tutor Reanimate or Buried Alive and go for the win.
I'm always testing the new guys too, sometimes they roar, sometimes they fail. Razaketh, the Foulblooded for sure, is the best (sometimes Iona, Shield of Emeria) in a while, If I could have all Razaketh, the Foulblooded that would be very cool.
Another thing I've learned, I built Kaalia of the Vast because I liked Gisela, Blade of Goldnight and Griselbrand (I really miss him, pretty angry about that one), but try not to be attached to certain cards, even if you like it, make sure it properly synergies. Stranglehold + Maralen of the Mornsong was my favorite for so long, I would always Tutor a Baneslayer Angel first to counter the damage (Lyra Dawnbringer would probably be the target now), but had to let it go because Maralen of the Mornsong couldn't keep up. Same with Liliana Vess. Even Aurelia, the Warleader, I won a draft event with him, so valued him highly, but I just didn't have the right supporting cards in there for him.
The next A/D/D I'm going to try is Archfiend of Despair, I just don't know how to take advantage of his second ability properly, I mean him and a Gisela, Blade of Goldnight obviously, he does double my damage, meaning 120 damage is now 60 damage so makes that a potential strategy, but still not sure how to do 60 by turn 5/6 to 3 different targets, but perhaps, have to test him. I feel Archfiend of Despair has more upside than Sower of Discord because of his Lifegain prevention, but together the 2 are ok, I'm just not sure, he reduces 120 to 80 where Archfiend of Despair reduces it to 60. I will note, if you build other Loss of Life into the deck, like Liliana's Caress and Dragon Mage and Wheel of Fortune type abilities, both Sower of Discord and Archfiend of Despair, but even then Sower of Discord is "Damage", remember, "Damage" causes "Loss of Life" but doesn't work the other way, "Loss of Life" isn't "Damage". Hmm probably will not even test Sower of Discord, CMC6 for 6/6, no Flample, and no immediate threat/ETB off Kaalia of the Vast other than potentially 8 damage (Sower of Discord 6 + Kaalia of the Vast 2) is outside my current strategy too much.
I can win on Turn 1: Swamp + Mana Crypt + Buried Alive and a Chrome Mox (and a card to Imprint) + Reanimate, is an example, but it rarely happens. There are some other Janky ways with Sol Ring and Ancient Tomb and stuff too, but not consistently. Always looking for ways to improve here. (CMC1 Reanimate or High Mana Conversion Stones)
Turn 2, there's quite a few different ways to get there, including Kaalia of the Vast attacking, usually needs a Razaketh, the Foulblooded in hand to pull the combo pieces, mana rocks, and Goblin Bombardment because usually Combo AFTER the combat phase, so the Infinite Haste Angels don't really help me out that much.
Turn 3/4 is really where I want to combo, and am looking to build further consistency, like Gamble or Beseech the Queen (maybe but it only tutors Reanimate usually for , so where does the for Reanimate come from). Does Zealous Conscripts or Adarkar Valkyrie check this box? Not really, which is probably why they are out. But honestly, I still have a bunch of junk, like Reveillark, Gisela, the Broken Blade maybe, Lord of the Void, Teferi's Protection it's really dumb this card doesn't have Split Second, Boros Charm too situational, see lots of stuff that could be Zealous Conscripts.
What I really wish for, 1) A good A/D/D that has Goblin Bombardment built-into it, like a Murderous Redcap of A/D/D, 2) More CMC1 Reanimate, 3) More CMC1 or CMC2 Tutors, I'll checkout your deck but if you don't have Tainted Pact it is CRITICAL to finding solutions, although means your lands are $1,000,000 but luckily no so HEY still cheaper than a Volcanic Island. 4) More effective mana rocks. I've looked at Mox Diamond a million times, can't decide if it helps/hurts in the average case (not just the Turn 1 case), like as a before Turn 5.
Rakdos the Defiler has been my friend, when I'm not doing well he often helps me out lol. Dance of the Dead is a possiblity, because it doesn't matter that Karmic Guide is tapped, but Karmic Guide is pro black so the interaction sucks even more (already sucks with Animate Dead but the triggers work).
I'll check out your deck a little later, and provide any feedback I can.
Hopefully, somewhere in this rambling I answered your questions.
PS: I hate that Kess, Dissident Mage (and some others) can win on Turn 0, win before it's even their turn, that sucks!
1 month ago
I did at one point have Aetherflux Reservoir in there, I took it out, I didn't want to build the deck around life gain and or life doubler's ... Why... I don't know. a BIG LASER to the face is funny. but choking someone out with poison is somewhat satisfying.
I do have To Arms! in the deck. the reason why I have Benefactor's Draught in there is not only for untapping, but for the card draw. and card advantage is key especially with a massive amount of mana to spend.
I looked at your deck. very nice, I will definitely +1. and the best part is that it is different. which makes Selvala, Explorer Returned even better.
1 month ago
Hey man, I am a huge Selvala fan myself, and I have my own high power deck here with her at the helm. Although I think my deck is more around the 75% power level (I put some pet and budget cards in mine), I'm sure it will be worth a look for you, as it plays slightly differently and runs a different set of cards, but still can consistently win crazy fast.
Another combo that I use in my deck is Village Bell-Ringer + Temur Sabertooth. Although it is a little more mana intensive than the combos you already have, I like it because both cards are very useful individually (protecting and untapping your creatures).
Finally, I noticed that you have all this lifegain, but you don't have Aetherflux Reservoir? That seems criminal!
Anyway, love the deck!
2 months ago
@Rabid_Wombat most of the utilities are combo pieces I just haven’t had the time to list them separately yet. I need the ramp to combo off. This is just one of many examples, but let’s say I have Cloudstone Curio, Axebane Guardian, and Village Bell-Ringer along with a few other creatures(minimum of 4). I could make infinite mana by bouncing the Bell ringer with cloudstone and recasting it untapping the axebane. That’s probably even my worst combo I have in here too.
@oniboy I said in the description I don’t have a mana base yet and that those are just cards in my color I had off the top of my head. Also, I’m over 100 cards because not all the cards listed will make the final cut which I haven’t made yet, so that’s why there’s some questionable card choices here and there. I don’t know what direction I want to take the deck in yet and I need help figuring that out. I know I don’t need that many counters, those are just the ones I was considering making the cut lol.
Thanks for the feedback both of you! - BlackyMTG
3 months ago
So the immediate problem I see is that you're trying to run legendary and non-legendary cards together as a theme, while I think it can work just fine, it'll be very difficult to fit a tertiary theme, and it will be finicky sometimes because they will kinda of grind against each other. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker only works with non-legendary creatures. If you get a few non-legendary creatures out with Jalira, Master Polymorphist and have Heroes' Podium it's going to feel kind of bad, but it'll feel pretty good to have a it with a bunch of legends. Mirari's Wake might fit better for you.
SO relatively, I only added white pretty recently and I only have 5 white cards. Felidar Guardian because it's basically twin combo with Saheeli Rai, but also works with Kiki-Jiki, Restoration Angel I view as a protection spell that just happens to work with Kiki-Jiki. Tamiyo, Field Researcher (combos with Doubling Season and is good value), Anointed Procession (more Doubling Season/Parallel Lives effects), and Teferi's Protection (should be in every deck that can run it as it protects from Cyclonic Rift).
So if I hadn't changed this deck recently I could probably use some of your ideas and then I'd put in Village Bell-Ringer but I don't actually have a reason to just untap most creatures for just value if I need to, having only 5 creatures with Untap abilities anymore, and they are more just either combos themselves or combo protection. Say if I have Tidewater Minion and Kiora's Follower and I go to combo off with Minion and someone just Doom Blade's it I can use Follower to untap Minion and then just float literally billions of mana, here I could use Village Bell-ringer and it'd be the same thing, but Kiora's Follower can untap land for me as well, Bell-ringer can't normally, for me. So if you have more activated abilities Bell-ringer will work for you, and I'd also recommend Thousand-Year Elixir and Illusionist's Bracers if you're not already running them.
I don't play cards that can give my opponents value. Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis is the only thing I run basically just for colors. I have to be in a tight spot in order to actually cast it, and it should be a partner commander combination but I had been at such a loss of what even to take out of the deck in order to get a partner combination in here. So I don't play cards like Selvala, Explorer Returned because she gives too much value to opponent's, and again I don't even play K&T unless I have to and I'd rather have partner commanders.
Just make sure all your Twin combo targets can do other things, like, I don't run Breaching Hippocamp because it doens't provide enough for me, while others like Zealous Conscripts can just take someone's Planeswalker and ult them or someone else's kiki-jiki and win, I've used Deceiver Exarch to tap down Blightsteel Colossus and prevent an attack. Interactions.
4 months ago
I really like this list. I'd give a little consideration to Druid's Deliverance Sundering Growth Alive // Well Rhys the Redeemed Second Harvest Wayfaring Temple and Hooded Hydra and Triumph of the Hordes but you have most of the good stuff there.
When you choose to run green, you need to look at the tools and synergies it opens up- Most G/W token lists I've seen have been splinter-twin esque Village Bell-Ringer/Presence of Gond combo lists ruinning Glittering Wish. Certainly, a light combo subtheme is very much an option with the variety of token-combo tools in green, taking advantage of Chord of Calling and Sprout Swarm
4 months ago
Yisan line requires some mana but a Bloom Tender can fix that on 2. Anyways. 2 is anything preferably tendies. 3 is Village Bell-Ringer. Untap Yisan. 4 is Felidar Guardian, blink Bell-Ringer. 5 is Kiki.
Wheel refills combo players who will get a lot more mileage out of it than you. We deny resources and Wheel refills.