|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
Combos Browse all
Creatures with flying can't attack you or planeswalkers you control.
At the beginning of your end step, create a 5/5 green Wurm creature token.
Sandwurm Convergence Discussion
1 week ago
If you intentionally don't use Primal Surge to the maximum capabilities, you are not min-maxing your deck. Without diving into more technical applications of card advantage, resource cost, opportunity cost, and speed that factor into format defining competitive decks, we can refute your min-max shenanigans with that one little argument alone. You are also spending the maximum amount of mana to get the effect, instead of cheating to cast Primal Surge somehow, which doesn't mean you're getting the minimum either. You're getting a maximum-mediocre, which is a lot different than a minimum-maximum. You haven't even minimized the number of non-permanent spells, because that would be 0 and that's definitely something you could do. facepalm again
Having the opinion that one card wincons are boring doesn't make much difference to how effective they are. Also Coalition Victory is banned because of the ease of Prismatic Omen with a 5 color commander, not because its a one card wincon (which its not, it requires at least 1 creature and 1 land that makes 3 cards, not even counting the cards required to cast the spell in the first place), the other reason being it wins on resolve instead of requiring an upkeep (creates no drama on the board, kaput game is over). A better example of a one-card wincon would be Felidar Sovereign , which is legal, but you do have to get it into play somehow, which would require some amount of cards to get the mana. Even if you do find 1 card win cons boring, you're openly stating you wouldn't run an optimal card to win. Once again, definitely not min-maxing.
Sandwurm Convergence is a bad card dude. It costs 8 mana to give you a creature every turn and negate some attacks. When the format has all kinds of legal 1 and 2 mana cost tutors, and even more 2, 3, and 4 mana cost ways to win, 8 mana for a pillowfort card that doesn't guarantee immunity is not good. Its not even good in a format like standard or modern either, due to the high mana cost. Compare to Bitterblossom .
- Turn 2, you play BB
- Turn 3, you get first token (and 1 every turn after)
- Turn 4, you swing with 1 attacker for 1 damage dealt
- Turn 4, you swing with 2 attackers for 3 damage dealt
- Turn 5, you swing with 3 attackers for 6 damage dealt
- Turn 6, you swing with 4 attackers for 10 damage dealt
- Turn 7, you swing with 5 attackers for 15 damage dealt
- Turn 8, you swing with 6 attackers for 21 damage dealt
By the time you get to play Sandwurm Convergence, Bitterblossom has already dealt 21 damage. Sure, the 5/5 tokens are bigger and nice, but you get them faaaaaaaaar later than you get the BB tokens. This is part of the reason things with lower CMC are so much better. Speed is very important in MTG.
From a pillowfort perspective, Sandwurm Convergence still doesn't make sense. You even run Solitary Confinement but don't understand why that's such a better card than this one. If you play Idyllic Tutor into Solitary Confinement, you've spent 2 less mana and you STILL get a better effect. Even when these two abiliites of token creation and pillowfort are stapled together, the card just isn't worth the CMC.
The same idea goes for Phyrexian Arena and Honden of Seeing Winds . By turn 5 when you could play Honden, you've already drawn 2 cards with Arena. This is also why Dark Confidant is so expensive and is worlds ahead of Phyrexian Arena , even though it will usually cost you even more life. Having also lower CMC means you can also do multiple things. On turn 4, if you draw a Dark Confidant you can play it while also holding a Counterspell . The same is not true for Phyrexian Arena .
But what about multiple draws from multiple Hondens? That requires a greater number of cards from hand/deck and a waaaaay larger investment in mana. For 4 cards and 17 mana, there are all kinds of way better things you can do. I'd rather just play Mind Unbound and save the 3 other slots, even though that is also a bad card.
Counterbalance is a much better option than any of the other counter enchantments you're running. Unfortunately, you have 0 topdeck manipulation, so you're basically just crossing your fingers and hoping it works.
Relying on Sterling Grove or Privileged Position to protect you from Hive Mind is absurd when you run almost no tutors and very mediocre draw. When are you going to have both these out? If just one of them is out, it gets nuked first by removal, then the rest of your board follows suit. Hive Mind is bad the same way Mind's Dilation is bad, don't rely on your opponents to have certain cards in their decks to win for you.
You rely on about 3 different cards to win, none of them are even close to fast, and you have no way to reliably get them to hand or get them from the command zone. Even in battlecruiser casual EDH, most decks win or create a game winning board state by turn 10. Your game plan is topdeck well or lose. You need to get some better win conditions, or you're going to be losing a lot of games against anyone who has been playing longer than six months. I really don't know why you're writing a primer for a casual mish-mash of 99 cards either, you aren't doing much education on your card choices and I can see no reason someone would run this build over another K&T build. You aren't running optimal card choices, from your lands, to your ramp, to your draw, to your win cons, to your removal, to your pillowfort. This list is just another enchantress list stapled to K&T with almost no wincons and with a sub-optimal Primal Surge package stapled on that doesn't even guarantee a win on resolving.
1 week ago
Modern Horizons added few cards worth looking at and testing. Currently looking to get a foil Hall of Heliod's Generosity , which is going to be an auto-include. Also excited for On Thin Ice . Always wanted to run Chained to the Rocks in the deck since its mana cost is so aggressive, but the extremely low Mountain count made it so unreliable it was not worth it. Hopefully the ability to run snow lands makes On Thin Ice much more playable. I wish Marit Lage's Slumber was easier to shove in the deck as a spicy wincon, but there are not enough non-basic snow permanents to bother.
That being said. It's time for my rebuttal.
First of all, I don't see how the way I've constructed my deck couldn't be described as "min-max". I've minimized the number of non-permanent spells and maximized the number of enchantments.
My mana-base has proven itself not to be a problem from the times I played. I don't remember a time where I was starved for any one color of mana before. Admittedly many of the lands enter tapped, but my meta isn't cut-throat where that's a problem. That being said, the manlands might get cut soon. They were a product of the meta at the time and weren't all that relevant.
Sandwurm Convergence was an include due to the abundance of dragon and Kaalia decks in my meta. The 5/5 is hard to attack into as well. You'd be surprised the amount of times being unable to be attacked by fliers has mattered. Mind's Dilation can be hit or miss. Ripping a land does suck. If Mind's Dilation hits removal, I can probably cast it on something, otherwise the board's probably looking pretty empty. Hitting a counterspell off of Mind's Dilation can be used to counter the spell that triggered it. As far as the hondens are concerned, the only one that's bad outright by itself is the white one . Players run cards like Phyrexian Arena and Bitterblossom for incremental advantage all the time.
As far as the counter-enchantments, it's just a part of the stipulation I've created for the deck. The alternative I could do for myself is just cut the counterspell themed enchantments altogether and focus more on resolved threats and other effects that interact with the opponent (i.e. Rule of Law and Spirit of the Labyrinth ). Admittedly, I've thought about cutting Sunken Field for Counterbalance .
"Generally, when Hive Mind is out, players tend to refrain from casting instants and sorceries because giving opponents an advantage is bad, and removal can be used against the caster. Occasionally players are willing to ignore those downsides and you will get free card advantage and removal. At it's worst, your opponents all naturalize you." That being said, the "all the removal will be used against you" becomes a non-issue if Sterling Grove and/or Privileged Position are out.
The wincon for the deck is overwhelmingly out-valuing the opponents with card advantage, then dumping mana into Helix Pinnacle . I have added Sigil of the Empty Throne and Opalescence as additional wincons, although Opalescence will likely get cut for something else. I've never liked that it and Starfield of Nyx turn the hard-to-remove enchantments into easy-to-remove creatures.
4 weeks ago
Also, if you want to annoy your opponent:
Elegant Edgecrafters has the amusing effect that it can't be blocked by common deathtouching vampires.
Giant Adephage can also trample over deathtouching blockers, and creates a copy of itself, effectively surviving.
Precursor Golem is unusually punishing to non-targeted removal: a Murder will kill all of them, but a Cruel Edict only kills one. They also get really fun with the Prey Upon or Giant Growth you have in your deck.
1 month ago
You could do that or you could try to stop flyers all together. Or give the whole team reach. Cards like
1 month ago
I love to min-max my deck building.
_However, I feel like the consistent card-draw stapled to her would make the deck too powerful and consistent. _
Estrid, the Masked is too good. There, I said it.
having a tutor in the command zone tends to make the games too consistent and predictable;
The second stipulation is that the deck is tuned for Primal Surge . With only 6 instant and sorceries in the deck including the surge itself, you should (approximately) get about 20 cards off of each Primal Surge. Since 1-card wincons are incredibly uninteresting as far as I'm concerned, I don't think the deck will reach a point where Primal Surge is the only instant or sorcery.
Probably the best card draw in the deck. Perhaps too good.
The amount of mana this card can produce for one mana can become unfair. Perhaps this should only be in cEDH.
I refuse to build 0 instant/sorcery Primal Surge . The idea of making it a 1-card wincon is uneventful to me. I'd much rather have the drama and variance of not knowing how many cards (or which cards) I am going to hit.
I don't think min-maxing means what you think it means. Intentionally not using cards because they are good or not building your deck a certain way because its too reliable for winning is the exact opposite of min-maxing. I will never understand the aversion of new players to winning, but I will review your deck in good faith nonetheless.
First, your land usage is definitely not optimal. You correctly identified the usefulness of fetches and duals for 4 color decks, but you chose not to run them (they are $$$ in real life dollars, so understandable). Regardless, you should prioritize lands that 1. Enter untapped and 2. Give access to the colors you need. A large number of your lands fail this metric.
Second, you run a number of cards that are 1. Expensive to cast and 2. Don't do much for the mana cost. Specifically, I am looking at Sandwurm Convergence Mind's Dilation , and all the Hondens. Sandwurm convergence is an underwhelming effect for a whopping 8 mana, stopping flyers is negligible because most EDH decks are built to win by combo. The 5/5 at your end step is nice, but the two effects combined are not worth the investment of 8 mana. Mind's Dilation is similarly heavy to cast at 7, but is even less worthwhile because it requires your opponents to do something before it does anything for you. You also aren't guaranteed to get value from it, because opponents can hit lands, they can hit spells you can't use (counterspells and removal come to mind). The hondens are bad because they require a heavy investment of mana and cards to start producing anything worthwhile. They also rob you of 4 deck slots that could go towards something more productive for winning. You are never going to get all 4 of the Hondens onto the board in a timely manner because your ramp cards are so low quality and you have almost no card tutors, plus slow and passive draws. Also no, 4 Hondens on turn 10 is not good.
Your interaction is. . . bad. Sunken Field will only work on bad players. Comboing it with untap effects would be interesting, but right now its just a very very very weak and predictable counterspell. You know how you are singing the praises of Telepathy ? You are giving your opponents the same information about your disruption while gaining no extra benefits from having it be in that form. Its also costs you 3 mana to use it the first time (2 to cast, and 1 more from tapping the land it enchants), meanwhile there are a whole host of 2 and 3 mana counterspells that are guaranteed to work. (even Cancel is better) Lilting Refrain is also very bad for very similar reasons. On top of telegraphing your play, it also can't counter a spell until a turn after you play it. It most likely won't be able to counter a spell until two or three turns after you play it. If you ran some recursion effects or proliferate effects, it might be salvageable, but currently its just really bad. Declaration of Naught is pretty bad too, its reusable against commanders, but its also costing you to counter one spell. Your only hand peek is Telepathy , and you run no blink effects to reset Declaration to abuse it.
I'm very confused by your Primal Surge choices. Designing your deck around Primal Surge working to not its full potential is just astonishing. Why even include it at all? Especially since you can actually lose from casting it, due to the nature of many enchantress effects that do not specify the word may for those draws. Casting a 10 mana spell should guarantee you are going to win, but it doesn't in this deck.
I feel similarly about Hive Mind . The potential for this card blowing up in your face is so high. Ideally, you pair this card with instants and sorceries that your opponents wouldn't want to cast at all. I understand you run a small instant/sorcery count, but that once again means you're relying on an opponent to help you get to your own win, otherwise you just wasted 6 mana on a card that does nothing with the other 98 cards you put in the deck. This card is never going to benefit you when you are ahead, it just means any piece of removal played becomes 3 pieces of removal against your board state.
Any cards you run with the words "gain life" on them should go. Also, how does this deck even win? Creature swings? Honden of Infinite Rage and the other Hondens then take 30 turns? Sandwurm Convergence then take 10 turns? Cast Primal Surge for half your deck then pass?
1 month ago
Sandwurm Convergence would be useful late-game. Brooding Saurian might be a good utility piece. Homeward Path is better but $$. Verdurous Gearhulk maybe? Rhonas the Indomitable and Predator Ooze might make good blockers.
2 months ago
Birthing Pod , Empty the Pits , Palace Siege , Hardened Scales , Midnight Reaper , Dragon Throne of Tarkir , Bojuka Bog , Acidic Slime , Retreat to Kazandu , Beast Within , Reclamation Sage , Read the Bones , Sign in Blood , Hornet Queen , God-Eternal Rhonas , Nylea, God of the Hunt , Erebos, God of the Dead , Sword of Fire and Ice , Sword of Feast and Famine , Sword of Light and Shadow , Umezawa´s Jitte, Thelon of Havenwood , Beastmaster Ascension , Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip, Cryptolith Rite , Verdant Force , Leyline of Lifeforce , Leyline of the Void , Eternal Witness , Champion of Lambholt , Heroic Intervention , Harmonize , Eldrazi Monument , Awakening Zone , Sandwurm Convergence , Nissa, Voice of Zendikar ,
2 months ago
Trostani, selesnya's voice is usually associated with being a token focus build. Here's some suggestions if you wish to go into that direction Advent of the Wurm , Crested Sunmare , Second Harvest , Aetherflux Reservoir , Sandwurm Convergence , Dawn of Hope , Sylvan Reclamation , Elemental Bond , Colossal Majesty , Seance .
Sandwurm Convergence occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.03%