|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|2011 Core Set (M11)||Rare|
|2010 Core Set (M10)||Rare|
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Exile all cards from target player's graveyard other than basic land cards. For each card exiled this way, search that player's library for all cards with the same name as that card and exile them. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
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|Have (9)||GeminiSpartanX , TheAlmostHero , joshw335 , CAPT.Shock , geazykagar , ChainerDragon65 , mziter501 , Unlife , Ashy|
Haunting Echoes Discussion
1 day ago
1 week ago
I too have a Mill deck and a lesser known card that helps a ton Haunting Echoes. While a little high in cmc, of you manage to get half their deck in the grave you can wipe out any future they might have draw wise!
1 month ago
After HoD was released, I brewed my own modern UB Mill based around Fraying Sanity, and I would like to share with you what I have learned. Some things may be obvious, some things may be new, and some things you may have already known. I have read through your post, but I may be saying something you already touched on without remembering it (there was alot to read!). I will split them up into facts and opinions for simplicity's sake.
Leyline of the Void blanks Fraying Sanity and Visions of the Beyond
This is something I did not anticipate when I first added a couple copies of Leyline into my 75 and started play testing. Because the cards never actually enter the GY and simply go straight to exile, your milling is not compounded with Fraying Sanity's end step trigger. This does not necessarily make Leyline a bad card, or a bad card in the 75 deck. However, you should keep Leyline in the sideboard, and when you decide to bring it IN, you need to board Fraying Sanity OUT. Also, there are never 20 cards in a GY to make Visions anything more than a cycle card, unless your opponent happens to be milling you as well (or you spent precious turns/mana/cards to mill yourself). My solution for the unfavorable interaction with Visions I detail a little further down.
Your opponent does NOT have to search for a basic land after Ghost Quarter resolves
If your opponent can read cards, they will know that searching their deck opens them up to an Archive Trap. You will more than likely be able to get a free Ghost Quarter into Archive Trap combo the very first time you set it off. But after that, your opponent will opt out of searching his deck, turning your Archive Trap into a 5CMC 13 mill. Not the best bang for your buck at that point. My advice is to sideboard out Archive Trap after game one. Ghost Quarter is now essentially a Wasteland, as your opponent will opt out to search for a basic thinking you have Archive Trap in hand. I personally run another 3 mill cards in my SB to swap in for Archive Trap after game one, assuming I don't have other SB options in mind for the match up. Now of course, I am not forgetting about fetch lands and tutors that your opponent may have in their deck; there are many options for turning Archive Trap on. Just keep in mind when you go to sideboard, if you are relying on Ghost Quarter to set up Archive Trap, you should board Trap out.
Visions of Beyond is a trap card
By this I mean, it is a trap for the mill player. The earlier iterations of my deck of course contained a full play set of this magnificent (or so it seemed) card. The problem is, Visions makes you greedy. You don't want to cycle it for one card, no! You want 3 cards for one blue, oh yeah baby! And so you hold onto it; it sits in your hand until you fire off at least two mill cards (Fraying Sanity included). Now that sounds good as a mid to late game refueling, top decking it after your opponent already has 20 cards in the GY and Visions is online. But what Mill is lacking to really put it into a competitive position, is explosiveness. We want to mill them to 0 at the end of turn 4. That is the perfect and best play out of our deck, and there is a lot of competition for action on turns 1 thru 3, and possibly not enough cards in the GY to bring Visions online. My solution was to trade Visions of Beyond out completely for Serum Visions. The scry 2 is amazing. Because the card doesn't change or have a bonus attached to playing it later, you don't fall into the trap, you don't get greedy. Fire it off on turn one to setup your next 1-2 turns. It doesn't sit in your hand, it doesn't conflict with a turn 4 win (in fact it helps you prepare for one), and it costs the same as Visions of Beyond (one blue).
Shelldock Isle is a trap card
Again, a trap for the mill player. In theory, it sounds fantastic. You exile a card (best case scenario, Glimpse or Breaking/Entering or Mind Funeral or Archive Trap) that costs more than one blue mana, making it inherently cheaper, and use it to close out the game. However, you can only use this ability if your opponent has 20 or fewer cards in their library. So it is essentially a "win more" card with serious draw backs. You remove the top three cards of your library and only pick one. Two are sent to the bottom never to be heard from again (the odds are better with fetch lands of course) and one is exiled and can't be used till later. The idea that the exiled card only costs one blue mana is also technically untrue, as you have to tap Shelldock Isle in addition to the one blue mana. So this exiled card actually costs one colorless (the Isle) and one blue, making Glimpse a tie and Mind Funeral only one black cheaper. Archive Trap and the Entering half of B/E are the best possible cards to have exiled under Shelldock but the odds are very low that they will consistently be one of the three cards available to choose from. Hoping for a perfect Shelldock into B/E or Archive Trap combo is chasing the win instead of playing for the win. There is no guarantee that Entering will have an amazing target to choose from, and Archive Trap can be played for free via other more reliable methods. I personally think the draw backs do not out weigh the advantages, that there are better lands to choose from, and since it comes into play tapped, it is too slow for the turn 4 win we are aiming for. Having a land that doubles as a mill spell is great for this deck, but I think Ipnu Rivulet fills that role better. It costs 1 more mana to play, only mills 4 cards, and requires you to sacrifice it, but in terms of a "win more" scenario, it can push you over the finish line without inhibiting your early game, which I feel is more important.
Hedron Crab is not a turn 1 play
I think that the idea of playing Hedron Crab on turn 1 as an assumed "perfect turn one play" is incorrect. In my opinion, it's perfect place is on turn 2, and this is why: you gain nothing by playing it on turn one over playing it on turn 2. There is no advantage, no bonus, no reason to play it one turn early. It is impossible to get a turn one trigger off it's landfall ability (which is practically a guarantee on turn two), in general you don't want to chump block with it until you've gotten some value out of it, and not having it available to block 1 damage (if you are on the draw) is not a game breaking concern. What you should be doing on turn one is playing cantrips. Thought Scour, Serum Visions, and even Fatal Push (if you were on the draw or think your opponent will have a creature to play next turn) are far and away better turn one plays than Hedron Crab. Hedron Crab belongs on turn two, played before you drop your second land, guaranteeing a trigger. Playing Crab on turn 1 opens it up to creature removal before you even get one landfall trigger off it.
Finally I want to say, I quite enjoyed your write up. I learned a few things, confirmed a few things, and even disagreed with a few things, haha! Darkness is brilliant; I completely forgot that card even existed. As you said in one of the comment chains, it's essentially a 1 mana Time Walk, which is fantastic for what this deck (and mine) is trying to do: win asap. Often times, I find myself losing a game thinking "man, if I only had one more turn." I will be testing Darkness later today as a matter of fact. I am also testing Haunting Echoes as a possible substitute for Leyline of the Void (allowing you to keep Fraying Sanity relevant). I'll follow up on that later.
However, I do disagree with your conclusion that mill will never be a "Tier 1" deck. Modern has changed so much so often over the years, I believe any deck has a chance to be the best deck in the meta at that time. Mill simply hasn't found it's footing yet. New cards will always shake things up. Even if they aren't cards we can use in UB Mill, often times they simply push out cards that are/were problems for us.
People always said Death and Taxes had no place competitively in Modern, and Brian Coval proved everyone wrong. The same possibility exists for mill. We just have to find the right combination of cards.
1 month ago
My friend plays a lot of mill, and he swears by Jace's Phantasm. You could probably run those instead of Siren of the Silent Song, adding some more resiliency to your deck by alleviating some of the pressure on your Aberrations as well as having a cheap 5/5 flyer in no time.
I'd also advise Mind Funeral over Mind Grind, as it's much less taxing on your mana. Maybe turn the Countermands into a cheaper counterspell, since 4 mana to counter and mill four doesn't seem like all that good a deal to me. Negate is always useful, but my favourite is Condescend. Also an interesting sideboard option might be Haunting Echoes, but that's personal preference.
Looks like a nice deck, have fun with it!
3 months ago
Altar of the Brood, Heartless Summoning, 2xMyr Retriever combo is pretty much mandatory. Throw in cards like Sands of Delirium, Sadistic Sacrament and Haunting Echoes. Other than that, though not monoblack, splash blue and get a couple of Sphinx's Tutelage going. There's so many low-cost draw cards in black and a lot of control too like Bile Blight, Go for the Throat and Flaying Tendrils.
3 months ago
second: ive tried Jace's Archivist and it is just flat out too slow. dies to anything. if you can't give him haste, he's a waste of time. maybe you could try him out and have better luck, but i'd just save yourself the trouble and dont bother.
third: is there a purpose for Lantern of Insight? i mean, besides just having the opportunity to bone the opponent from a useful card for a turn, in hopes of milling it later?
fourth: some grave hate main deck would probably be very useful, considering there are several decks in modern (really most decks) that capitalize at least somewhat on graveyard. you, essentially, are speeding up those decks' gameplans. i'm thinking Scrabbling Claws and/or Relic of Progenitus could be good for you main deck. i think Haunting Echoes might be too slow, as well, although you may have tested it and figured it was good enough. idk. Surgical Extraction is awesome, but i think if you cut the echoes, you could free up all those land slots in your sideboard for more useful sideboard cards.