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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Block Constructed | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Modern | Legal |
| Modern Beyond Horizons | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Planar Constructed | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Tiny Leaders | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Liliana's Caress
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent discards a card, that player loses 2 life.
ChaosJester on Need help to make the …
3 months ago
DreadKhan Thanks a Lot for your Feedback! In Commander and Casual Games, Transmute is my absolute favorite ability to bring my janky combo pieces together haha.
In this case, I fully agree with you that the unbanned tutors are not that great. However, I think Beseech the Mirror could have a place in that Artefakt based deck.
As for the Option to use mass Removals against creature Heavy Decks: I initially decided to play Ensnaring Bridge over mass relovals because I thought it would fit into the overall artefact based approach of that deck and would synergize well with Urza's Saga. Now I have realized that I would restrict myself because an empty hand with a huge construct and the Bridge would be awful for me haha.
Regarding Liliana's Caress and Quest for the Nihil Stone: would it be not better to play Shrieking Affliction instead?
DreadKhan on Need help to make the …
3 months ago
I think most of the legal tutors in Legacy aren't very good (Legacy is a VERY fast format at this point), but if you are okay with 3 mana tutors you can look at Transmute effects, some of them are available in mono-Black. These tutors come stapled to what is almost always a terrible spell (Brainspoil might be the worst removal spell I've actually played), but they let you find anything at that spell's MV. I think the one you'd want in here is Shred Memory, this also lets you exile something if you really need that (it's even an Instant speed exile effect), I find graveyard hate needs to be in the mainboard or your sideboard, ymmv.
I second adding some duals, I would think even 1 would help, especially because Blood Moon will just turn them into Mountains anyways, so if they replaced Mountains you'd be fine.
Would Liliana's Caress make any sense? I love Rack decks and I have often wondered about Caress, but I don't have the forced draw your deck can provide, Caress + Anvil is 2 damage each upkeep, and it goes up for each extra card they have to pitch. I don't use any Caress atm in my Rack deck, but mostly because it's pricey and the one copy I have is in my Discard EDH deck already!
Maybe x1 Quest for the Nihil Stone? If your deck is working correctly the opponent very quickly has no cards, meaning this will be very quickly turned on, and 5 damage per upkeep from 1 card for {B} seems worth a look.
I'm a bit curious what happens if someone resolves a good creature before you can lock them out of cards, I run ~16 ways that interfere with creatures in my own Legacy Rack deck, but I admittedly don't lock them out of cards!
Good luck with your list, it looks like a lot of fun!
DarkKiridon on Any discard payoffs on mono …
9 months ago
There's also Dark Deal and the Waste Not on a stick for yourself creature: Bone Miser.
Megrim is the other Liliana's Caress for one more mana if you need it.
Tergrid, God of Fright Flip if you're feeling mean? :)
legendofa on Any discard payoffs on mono …
9 months ago
Waste Not and Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal Flip are probably the best ones, and Liliana's Caress and Geth's Grimoire are worth considering.
Keep in mind that if you want to ensure that your opponents keep discarding, you need to make sure they have cards to discard. That Waste Not doesn't do anything if your opponents aren't moving their hands. If you want to keep your opponents' hands empty so they can't do anything, Shrieking Affliction and The Rack are the win cons of the 8-Rack deck.
So my next questions are, do you want to punish discarding and gain tempo and resources, or do you want to enforce empty hands and play control? Commander has room for overlap, but it's common to lean toward one or the other. And how competitive do you want this to be?
Davinoth on
Davros, the Dastardly Dalek [Group Slug EDH]
9 months ago
Necramus: That's a card I hadn't considered! I love BCA!
It kind of falls into a category of cards with Liliana's Caress and Megrim, where it makes it more beneficial for my opponents to let me draw a card at the end step. Similarly (albeit a lot more than the two examples I gave lol) it doesn't necessarily help me achieve Davros' trigger up front.
It is a very powerful card but I feel it would often end up just being a "win-more" piece in the deck. I'm gonna think hard on that one! :)
legendofa on
no hand ever
1 year ago
Once you get your opponent's hand empty, they're probably going to be drawing and playing one cards a turn, so there's no actual discard for Liliana's Caress. Caress wants your opponent to be discarding a lot, which means your opponent needs to refill their hand once in a while. Since this deck looks like it's trying to get the opponents hand empty, rather than constantly discarding, The Rack or Shrieking Affliction would probably be more reliable. If you want to build around Caress, cards like Dark Deal or Baleful Mastery might help here.
Acquisitions Expert is slightly better than Corrupt Court Official, if you want to keep the creature base the same.
Depending on budget, Liliana of the Veil is more reliable discard than Dreamstealer here, and the Orcish Bowmasters in the maybeboard are a good deterrent for, hmm, pretty much everything. Still $60+ each, though.
legendofa on madness ruling
1 year ago
When you discard a card with madness, you put it into exile instead of your graveyard, then you get a choice. You can put it into your graveyard, and nothing else happens. Or, you can cast it from exile by paying the madness cost. If you choose to cast from exile, it acts like another other cast spell--it goes to the stack and resolve normally.
This still counts as discarding for stuff like Liliana's Caress or Hollow One, even though it doesn't go to the graveyard. Also, older madness cards, like Brain Gorgers, have slightly outdated wording. New madness cards, like Alms of the Vein, have updated wording.
legendofa on
Reinvented wheel
1 year ago
xipee808 The flash does help a lot. And I might be underestimating it. But I will suggest, like you mention, running the full playset is probably too much. Hullbreacher cuts into the mill plan (but I see the Laboratory Maniac in the sideboard) and the draw-damage pressure. I think I see where you're coming from, but just to be sure, could you explain the intended use step by step?
What I see is:
-
Use a wheel, let's say Windfall.
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Flash in Hullbreacher.
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Everyone discards, let's say Tourach, Dread Cantor gets big and Liliana's Caress spikes your opponent.
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You draw cards = your discarded hand and create Treasure = your opponent's discarded hand.
You're in a good spot now, you have resources and your opponent should be on the defense. A lot of those resources rely on your opponent having a reasonably discardable hand, though, so I assume you want to swing with Tourach and/or feed an Exsanguinate and end the game quickly.
I have to admit, I have more experience with pure discard than with wheels, so I might just need to see it in action, but I see Hullbreacher being a 1- or 2-of at most as a finisher, and not as part of the control plan.
How do you get your opponents to discard without them drawing for more than one turn, if you can "wheel and gain from Liliana's Caress and other enchantments"? Once they discard, their hand is empty, and Breacher stops them from significantly refilling their hand.
Still, this is a solid looking deck, so nice work! Have you been able to use it in live matches a lot?
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