Force of Despair

Instant

If it's not your turn, you may exile a black card from your hand rather than pay this spell's mana cost.

Destroy all creatures that entered the battlefield this turn.

Discussion (51)

zAzen7977 on Tymaret, the Discard King

2 weeks ago

And better removal, like Feed the Swarm , Deadly Rollick , Fire Covenant , Force of Despair , and Toxic Deluge .

And more ramp like Cabal Ritual , Pyretic Ritual , Mox Amber , Chrome Mox , Mana Vault , Mana Crypt , Lion's Eye Diamond , Grim Monolith , etc.

Also your CMC is too high. Try to cut it back as low as humanly possible.

I realize these are expensive suggestions, but I’m basing my analysis purely on effectiveness and not price. There are some budget alternatives to the more expensive cards, but the deck won’t be quite as effective.

If you want to go a discard path instead, Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger is a good commander instead.

Hope this helps! :)

moejin on Daemon Inc.

1 month ago

Metamorphic1992 I've considered it, however like all of my other decks I enjoy an even CMC more than functionality. If anything I might take out Force of Despair as I already have board wipes in forms of Damnation and Living Death but then I feel like I need more targeted removal as well. Vicious cycle and what not.

AzulTennin on Budget Treasure go wide

2 months ago

Feed the Swarm is pretty cheap and versatile removal to consider. Fact or Fiction or Read the Bones or even Altar's Reap might also be nice as it seems card draw might be a bit weak Thoughtcast is even better I bet with the Treasure synergies. Murder or Doom Blade or Tragic Slip or Price of Fame or Defile or Cast Down or Drag to the Underworld might also be nice to deal with enemy threats or blockers. Force of Despair is another good cheap effect that can help push through for attacks. Costly Plunder turns a treasure into cards which is nice and on theme. Profane Command is also surprisingly cheap for the versatility. Damnable Pact is neat as you can target an opponent to deal lethal or yourself to draw. Cranial Plating is a pretty awesome equipment with treasure too. Armix, Filigree Thrasher although not a pirate, has a cool synergy with treasures. AEtherize is a neat wrath effect that is cheap. Memory Lapse and Unsubstantiate is a counterspell that feels less controlling since they keep the card. Tolarian Winds is a one sided Windfall which is interesting. Thassa's Intervention is another potential counterspell that doesn't feel so controlling. Distant Melody is also probably a great card given all the Pirates. Merchant's Dockhand interacts nicely with Treasures.

smilodex on Ishkanah, Grafwidow Commander COMBO Deck

3 months ago

Thanks for your comment. I am very happy about such comments, as it is difficult to keep an eye on every possible combination with over a thousand commanders, especially with such a commander like Ishkanah, which you don't meet in your LGS every day. Thanks to your comment, I can see more of the potential of Ishkanah. I you want to tune up your deck, I have some recommendations for that:

I would exchange:

• Panharmonicon has only 3 targets + your commander... I think that's not efficien enough I would rather play this beast of a card: Ohran Frostfang because this card converts your spiders into carddrawing killer spiders.
• Far Wanderings for Cultivate because it's more reliable and effective
• Vessel of Nascency for Jarad's Orders because this card is just a perfect tutor for decks like this
• Blood for Bones for Victimize
• Is Witchbane Orb one of your meta picks, because a lot of your opponents play curses or burn? If not, I would rather play more carddraw because you have to less of it in your deck. Play Sylvan Library (or Phyrexian Arena) instead
• Drown in Filth with either another good removal like Abrupt Decay; Caustic Caterpillar; Plaguecrafter (Force of Despair, Darkblast, Snuff Out, Force of Vigor, Tragic Slip etc.)
• Cut 2 Forests and a Swamp for Bala Ged Recovery  ^Flip, Khalni Ambush  ^Flip & Hagra Mauling  ^Flip
• Grapple with the Past for Fiend Artisan/Phyrexian Arena/Opposition Agent
• Entomb for any other tutor like Demonic, Vampiric, Grim Worldly Tutor etc. or Buried Alive

I would play as many cool utility lands with a sacrifice effect and as many fetch lands as possible because they're needed for Delirium and have also great potential with the MVP in every graveyard deck Life from the Loam:

• Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse/Ash Barrens/Jund Panorama
• Prismatic Vista/Verdant Catacombs; Windswept Heath/Wooded Foothills/Bloodstained Mire etc. (If they're out of budget, you just can play the cool and cheaper utility lands and you'll be fine) Other cool lands: Grim Backwoods!!; Geier Reach Sanitarium, Drownyard Temple Phyrexian Tower, Emergence Zone, Haunted Fengraf, Buried Ruin I would also add Deserted Temple because it can produce together with Cabal Coffers + Rings of Brighthearth infinite black mana.

Carddraw or Cardadvantage:

• Ohran Frostfang!!
• Driven / Despair!!
• Sylvan Library!!
• Night's Whisper
• Lifecrafter's Bestiary
• Phyrexian Arena!!
• Journey to Eternity  ^Flip
• Phyrexian Reclamation
• Genesis
• Fauna Shaman/Birthing Pod/Fiend Artisan/Survival of the Fittest/Yisan, the Wanderer Bard

Other good finishers/ combo pieces:

• Altar of the Brood / Blood Artist / Zulaport Cutthroat
• Craterhoof Behemoth or the budget version: End-Raze Forerunners / Overrun
• Triumph of the Hordes

Well, I'm sure that you already know what other options there are to tune up the deck. If you want to win consitenly I would add more ways to produce infinte mana like Nim Deathmantle + Priest of Gix + Ashnod's Altar or Magus of the Coffers + Staff of Domination OR another unigue and complicated way to filter infinite colorless mana with Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth is together with Mirage Mirror and a Swamp...

To make the whole thing more consistent you have play all green and black tutors, play fast mana like the Moxes, Mana Crypt/-Vault, Manadorks (Elvish Mystic/Elves of Deep Shadow/Llanowar Elves etc. and pack some premium removal in the deck to raise the power level. If you're interested we can brew a fringe competetive list together.

xcodix on Yuriko Turn and Burn - cEDH

4 months ago

Confounding Conundrum could be a good stax piece to consider.

Miscast could also be a good add, if not a great add for budget decks.

I'm also surprised I haven't seen Force of Despair in this list, although the blue pips to black is heavily favored to blue and FoD may be more dependent on your playgroup/meta.

CaptainToll on Nicky B and his Pro-Life Posse

4 months ago

Honestly the only 3 cmc rock I'd run for "power reasons" would be Coalition Relic and even then only if my CMDR is at 5 cmc. There is more to a deck than plain "this is better than that".

On the proliferate removal: it really feels like a downtrade and huge tempoloss at a table of 4 people, when you remove one single creature for one or two loyalty on a planeswalker, when tempo is the most important constant you need to get something out of your walkers. If you are reaping the desired benefits from those cards you probably already are winning. Coming back to Force of Despair: give it a try. At worst it is a better Settle the Score for one cheaper and at instant speed (more tempo for you ;) ) and at best it protects your walkers for a whole turncycle from being killed by creatures, which is what superfriends should be looking to do I'd guess.

Savage1988 on Nicky B and his Pro-Life Posse

4 months ago

TriusMalarky

I'm still not sure I understand your aversion of the vivid lands, but let's say i cut them, would you add basics (as long as i haven't tested how early my proliferation is online)?

Throne of Geth doesn't need many other artifacts. At the point where I want to activate this more than once I image having some signets / talismans that I don't need anymore, allowing them to be useful again as fodder for the throne. I don't expect to ativate this before turn 4 at all, probably even later than that. Yes, it's amazing if i get to activate it every turn (e.g. when i have Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast or Saheeli, Sublime Artificer), but i feel like it's done its job when i activate it twice, and i can always use it once in a pinch.

On winning:

I know you specifically said "not necessarily infinites" but I'm not sure what other kind of I win buttons other than copying planeswalker ults you might mean. I have a Torment of Hailfire that I may want, I could probably get to enough mana through proliferation that everyone has to sac their board, hand and life, but honestly it might take too long and i prefer not to run any tutors, so it's kinda hit or miss. Any other non-infinite suggestions?

It also doesn't help that my playgroup actually frowns a little on infinite combos. I think the 4 card combo that i discovered after adding all the pieces is convoluted enough to be appreciated. Then there's a lot of ways to get infinite turns with Magistrate's Scepter here too, but this can also easily be interrupted by artifact removal - even this may be too much for them though. I guess what I'm saying is that we mostly play for the fun and "doing our thing", less for the winning. I probably wouldn't play this deck in a competitive environment (but who knows!)

Also: I'm cutting solemn, but Jace, Cunning Castaway might be too meme-y, which walker do you think fits the bill best? I'm thinking

• Jace Beleren: Party jace! cheap, draws cards, could be left alone if i draw the table cards

• Tezzeret, Artifice Master: helps throne of geth, draws cards, has cool ult

• Teferi, Temporal Archmage: untap can help our artifacts do double duty, is another walker to go infinite with chain veil and mana artifacts that produce 4 mana, has cool ult

• Ugin, the Ineffable: helps control, builds boardstate, helps cast artifacts (and ugins/karns)

• Sorin Markov: Drains slowly, can help table take care of archnemesis, resets the lifegain deck, has evil ult

I'm leaning towards teferi now that i realised it can help me combo (or at least proliferate more). Am i missing any good ones (that aren't Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Dack Fayden since those are too expensive)

PS: what's your stance on wilds/terramorphic: cut for basics or keep?

CaptainToll

I agree with your take on what's likely to happen to me during a game but I don't think Force of Despair is the answer. It’s a decent card but i don’t think it helps us much:

It only takes care of creatures from 1 opponent, and only the turn they entered, making this feel more like a counterspell, less like a wrath or even regular removal. In that sense it’s somewhat like sorcery speed removal, which might even be better in this case because we can at least interact with all the threats since our previous turn.

It’s a free spell, it can’t be that bad, but i’m not sure it does what we need.

CaptainToll on Nicky B and his Pro-Life Posse

4 months ago

Force of Despair is nice, since you propably die or get your planeswalkers attacked down, whilst trying to develop them. You will likely have a black card in your hand you won't be able to develop in time and can instead pitch to protect your already dropped walkers.