Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Aug. 18, 2016, 9:52 p.m. by BlueMageBrandon
Like everyone else, I'm excited for Conspiracy: Take the Crown; especially for the new Legendary Creatures. So far, my favorite has to be Leovold, Emissary of Trest and since the Sultai colors are my favorite in EDH, I decided to build a deck with him. However, I need some help adding some cards and deciding what to do with him. If oyu have any ideas, feel free to drop a comment.
Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Commander / EDH*
1 VIEW
Scroll Rack / Mystical Tutor / Lim-Dul's Vault + Devastation Tide + Dark Deal with Leovold, Emissary of Trest in play seems like a fun play. Standstill seems hot.
Im considering doing a elf themed deck as well.. Less noncreature spells and more dorks, Earthcraft, Natural Order, Priest of Titania + Staff of Domination combo. Mostly green with black for tutors and blue for some digging
August 19, 2016 5:28 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #4
I've been approaching a Leovold deck with a typical combo-control build. My build isn't exactly optimal because I'm being realistic with how much I could personally put into the deck.
Teferi's Puzzle Box, Windfall, and Dark Deal are the strongest wheel effects with him. Time Spiral is great too. Time Reversal and Jace's Archivist are less exciting.
He's also strong with Spellskite, and Notion Thief can be there for redundancy.
August 19, 2016 9:21 a.m.
Lilbrudder says... #5
Honestly, I would rather play Day's Undoing over Dark Deal any day. Yes it ends your turn but you get a full 7 back. With dark deal you lose 2 cards in total and that could put you in the same boat as your opponents.
August 19, 2016 11:59 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #6
I am anticipating a banning as soon as he comes out. His ability is downright oppressive.
August 19, 2016 8:36 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #7
I think the best option is to ramp hard for a few turns, cast Leovold and then cast a wheel or Teferi's Puzzle Box, with countermagic up so you have a full grip and everyone else is empty. Then on the next turn tutor for Doomsday and win (Laboratory Maniac). Could be a very fast and consistent combo. With all the green ramp, blue control, and black Doomsday and utility, I could see it being a super competitive combo-control archetype for multiplayer pods.
Just be sure to pack Nature's Claim and similar cards to deal with Necropotence and similar problematic cards that allow a player to keep cards in hand through leovold.
Other thoughts: to resolve a wheel or Doomsday easily, Boseiju, Who Shelters All and ways to find it like Crop Rotation should be included. Similarly, Cavern of Souls on Wizard can make resolving Lab Maniac a piece of cake when comboing, and if he was the last card in your library, if they try to remove him Leovold triggers and you win on the stack.
EDIT: Almost forgot: A lot of Leovold decks I've seen have been playing a lot of mana dorks like Elvish Mystic. Other than Deathrite Shaman and Birds of Paradise, I think other ramp approaches like Burgeoning and Exploration and Crucible of Worlds will be better since they can ramp for a lot more as you tear through your deck, making the later turns a lot more inevitable.
August 20, 2016 12:25 a.m. Edited.
PookandPie says... #8
I've been playtesting a list over the last day or so- it's a Leovold Doomsday build so my general goal is to win on turn 5 or 6 after setting up my topdeck.
I've actually been experiencing people flat-out quit to Teferi's Puzzle Box, once they realize that you draw for your turn before Puzzle Box goes on the stack, so they draw their card and then put everything in their hand on bottom of their library. It's basically Jin-Gitaxias' third ability, except it more easily comes out by turn 4, but even better in that the one card they draw for turn gets bottomed unless it is an instant or a card with flash. Together the cards basically read, "Each opponent's hand sizes are reduced to 0. Your opponents may only cast instant cards or cards with flash."
I had another guy ask me, "So I basically just get to sit here and wait until I hit Krosan Grip or Beast Within?" He even reasoned that his creature removal wouldn't have done jack, because I'd be able to re-cast Leovold as my fifth turn play and drawn an extra card off of it.
(one guy quit on the draw step of his fourth turn because on mine I played Puzzle Box. I had a zero acceleration start, and he cast Sakura-Tribe Elder t2, and Wood Elves t3.)
So far, out of about 12 games, I've been very surprised by how well the deck performs against a variety of Commanders. Zur Voltron didn't care that he had no cards, and he attacked for lethal before I could find Doomsday. There was an Arcum deck using Myr Incubator, and the final loss I had this evening was to a Teferi, Temporal Archmage deck that got t3 Teferi and Chain Veil, lol (this was after another Teferi deck earlier in the night couldn't properly assess the threat Leovold presented and both he and a Jeleva deck lost hard to it). Anything that wasn't combo or a tutor general seemed to have a very hard time with Leovold. This will probably change a bit once people get an idea of how to better play around him, but from the limited testing I've done (and I very much doubt my list is 'optimal'), Leovold seems just as, if not more, oppressive than Sylvan Primordial in even an average build.
Don't get me wrong, he's nowhere near as bad as Braids, Cabal Minion, but I'm thinking that he's going to cause a significant portion of the Commanderbase to fuss because if your opponents didn't draw or actually tried to play cards on their third turn (opposed to holding 2 or 3 mana removal for your potential Puzzle Box or Leovold), they just lose their hands, and in one case, lose them for good unless the whole table focuses you down, lol.
I was also pleasantly surprised by how well Leovold deals with Archenemy situations, as well (what does the RC call it? Over-centralizing games? Yeah, he totally does that). Pretty difficult to handle him when people have no cards, outside of specific Commanders, like Zur, Arcum, and Yisan, though there's probably plenty more that make good outs against him if you can cast them, but these were just what I generally saw tonight (the Yisan player was able to get his Caterpillar and destroy the Puzzle Box, but he was already too far behind to come back because anything else he tried to do I either destroyed, bounced, or countered before it could get out of hand).
I know this was a long post, but I thought I would share my findings. I'm equal parts excited about this deck and curious as to how the typical Commander player will find playing against such a deck. He seems to lend himself well to Doomsday combo flourishes and potentially Stax.
August 20, 2016 3:17 a.m.
Deckologist says... #9
Like many players I fell in love with Leovold only to discover after testing him in multiple deck styles that he's pretty much just a gimmick general and all of the ways I built him felt very linear because you just flat don't care about his draw ability when your stuff is targeted. I've noticed a lot of people get excited when you run edric in him but all Edric is at that point is a coastal piracy. He paints a decent target on his head but comes down early enough that it's hard to deal with but I noticed after two or three games everyone saved their control cards for him and eventually everyone just kept their thumb on him. Still managed to win without him but I digress. I'd say he's good in the same way that Teferi is good. He locks players out in the early game with wheel effects or teferi's puzzle box which is cool but one dimensional and annoying when he isn't available. I'm sure we will find he's just another Nekusar and that kinda makes me sad.
August 20, 2016 3:55 a.m.
CastleSiege says... #10
Since everyone has already discussed wheel effects from hell to high heaven, I'll pitch another idea to you. Since you're being a jerk and not letting anyone else have cards in hand, why not stop them from playing all together? Add some stax cards like Winter Orb, Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, Stasis, Anvil of Bogardan, Smokestack...
August 21, 2016 3:25 a.m.
How about reanimate theme? 
is nice colors for that. Dark Deal and Windfall does discard, and Show and Tell is better when your opponents has 1 card. Eureka is nice too if you have it or is allowed to proxy it. Reanimate plays lots of fatties, so Tooth and Nail can be a wincon. Something like this: Leovold!
August 21, 2016 7:34 a.m.
Deckologist says... #12
i feel like there's just infinitely better generals if you want control and reanimation in these colors.
August 22, 2016 1:17 a.m. Edited.
I didnt realise Teferi's Puzzle Box triggered after you draw your card. Opponent draws then puts their hand on the bottom of their library then they cant draw any more cards :).
August 22, 2016 3:34 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #14
Yeah, turn based actions such as drawing in your draw step or declaring attackers in the declare attackers step happens before any player receives priority. Triggers don't go on the stack until a player would receive priority.
August 22, 2016 9:25 a.m.
Leovold, Emissary of Trest + Teferi's Puzzle Box is insane then. Oppressive enough to get banned? Good enough to be a legacy lock?
August 22, 2016 9:57 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #16
Like I said in my first post, I expect a banning for EDH. With the number of tutors in black and blue that can find the Puzzle Box the consistency of hitting the lock on turn 4 is oppressive. After you have resolved both pieces your opponents can no longer play lands or cast spells other than those with flash or that are instants. This is only compounded by the fact that you are now cycling through your deck at an accelerated rate and can more easily find your wincons or the further lock of Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine .
As far as legacy playability goes it is a little less good there. Smaller deck size and ability to run 4-of means that they will more readily be able to Force or Daze one of your pieces. The decks that don't play those cards will be able to destroy one of the pieces before the lock takes effect. I'm not saying it won't be playable, but it has a lot more to overcome than in EDH. Especially since you don't have guaranteed access to one of the pieces. I foresee play on a tier 2/3 level.
August 22, 2016 10:51 a.m.
PookandPie says... #17
Competitive Commanders and groups probably won't care about Leovold as much as the more casual or social groups will. Zur, Arcum, Yisan, etc., Can get through Leo just fine, generals that can combo off turn 3/4 are fine, but decks that aren't that powerful or are unwilling to Time Walk themselves to counter/destroy the potential Puzzle Box on the third or fourth turn will have excessive trouble dealing with such an easy lock in the best tutoring colors in Commander.
From my experience, this combination seems to have the same over-centralizing problem that people complained about with Sylvan Primordial or Prime Time. I see Leo getting banned due to practically requiring people run enough tutors to guarantee a counter or removal on the third turn to avoid getting locked by something with no acceleration (to much cheaper cards, both mana or money wise, than Puzzle Box). That just seems like it is somewhat unreasonable in a format like Commander, and seems right along the banning criteria used for several other cards before, since people who don't have access to that removal (not top decking it or a tutor) will have little choice but to focus down the Leo player just to get him out of the game so they can actually play Magic (or they'll spend their time cloning Leo so it locks that guy too lol).
August 22, 2016 7:33 p.m.
Deckologist says... #18
I doubt there will be a banning. Teferi hasn't been banned and he says players can't play spells with quite a few things. Notion Thief with the puzzle box is almost as bad as Leo not to mention Maralen of the Mornsong with it. There is always that one legendary creature that people complain about for EDH and assume that it will get banned because THEY don't know how to deal with it.
August 23, 2016 9:57 p.m.
PookandPie says... #19
He comes down much, much earlier and curves into a soft lock, significantly more so than anything you've suggested, and does so without any acceleration.
Also, mind you, that I'm not taking competitive tables into account: I'm talking casual tables, where people typically run 0-5 removal and basically will have to draw one in their first ten cards or get soft locked by Puzzle Box, Anvil of Bogardan, among tons of other cards.
Also, I feel you're underestimating Leo, at least a little bit, because both of his abilities are extremely suitable for protecting Laboratory Maniac. There is some very real power to the card, it can drop a soft lock turn 3 with only one piece of acceleration (which is a lot more than someone can say for Teferi and Knowledge Pool on the third turn).
He may wind up being a tier two Commander, but he very clearly creates over centralizing problems at a casual level similar to Prime Time and Primordial Feel Bad. Hell, at a competitive level this over centralizing focus even occurs, so while I would need to test more to determine if Leo night overtake Tasigur as a great tier 1 BUG Commander, his odds are looking pretty good to me, especially in the Doomsday and Ad Nauseam builds.
I mean, let's not kid ourselves. Casual players had a hard enough time dealing with Prophet of Kruphix, too, so I don't immediately see how an effect that is literally, "This has to die or he's going to strip our hands and then win through Lab Man, whether we have removal for the trigger or not" is exempt because a 5+ mana card can also perform a lock.
Obviously this is just my experience, but I'm expecting people to complain. Regardless of whether the card is actually that bad, it'll be banned if the complaints are loud enough. Leo is a lot worse in a casual environment than anywhere else, so we'll just have to see if he causes as many headaches for casuals as I'm thinking he will.
August 24, 2016 2:25 a.m.
Deckologist says... #20
Easy. It's because you don't have to play him that way. The card by itself does not say win the game. It is the player who decides to make a deck like that. Prophet was banned because it was forcing people into blue green because it was considered the strongest card in EDH while giving 2 amazing abilities at the same time. Also RC members have already started saying that nothing in conspiracy seems to be an issue.
August 24, 2016 10:13 a.m.
Lilbrudder says... #21
With few exceptions, I think people that choose Leo to be thier commander will play him in the same doushy way Prophet of Kruphix was played. I also definitely think you are underestimating Leo. Hes about 2 turns faster than Nekusar at EVERYTHING. Even outside of wheels he has two very relevant abilities, is effectively costed, and is in an OP color scheme. I honestly think he will end up as the best BUG commander for multiple kinds of builds. Stax/DD combo, hard control, storm and elf ball are all strategies he does very well. He should not be banned but its quite possible he will be due to the way he motivates doushy plays at tables that are in no way prepared for him.
August 24, 2016 10:53 a.m. Edited.
Deckologist says... #22
The same could be said for Edric, Spymaster of Trest or Arcum Dagsson or Zur the Enchanter yet here we are years later and even though these generals all say "I'm going in for the early game lock or win and you won't be prepared for it" they are still very much legal. And please stop confusing casual players for weak players. I play with the most casual of casual and everyone still packs a hefty amount of removal because it's just good to have.
August 24, 2016 2:43 p.m.
PookandPie says... #23
Prime Time and Primordial don't read you win the game, either, and is largely up to how the player utilized them, but they still were banned anyway.
That said, there's not exactly a huge amount of consistency with the RC's ban list, so he may very well not wind up getting a place on the multiplayer ban list. I'm just saying the possibility exists because I see people complaining (beyond that, I already covered that I don't think he's as bad as some currently-banned Commanders like Braids). Either way, I don't see this conversation going anywhere because it's based on the whims of not just Sheldon and co, but Commander players in general, lol.
So, enjoy yourself, sir. I just popped in to give my findings anyway, because the salt was real.
August 24, 2016 4:42 p.m.
Deckologist says... #24
So Sheldon just announced he's building Leovald. Won't be seeing a ban on this "OP" commander.
August 26, 2016 10:48 a.m. Edited.
PookandPie says... #25
You know, I like how you put OP in quotations like that was even remotely something close to what I said. I stated I expected people to complain, you seem to think that I'm saying the card is overpowered (which, um. Not even remotely the same thing and I've taken lengths to extrapolate the not-even-subtle nuances of power level in Commander, so I'm not even sure where you're getting that from).
Your asinine condescension aside, it's probably good that someone in the RC tests him to begin with; I don't exactly see how that excludes Leovold from anything. Sheldon played with Prophet of Kruphix when in UG, too.
August 26, 2016 12:07 p.m.
PookandPie says... #27
Then who were you speaking to?
No one in this entire thread called him overpowered, which means you're not addressing any one individual, but a group of people who do not share the same opinion as you do, which seems to consist of about 3-4 people. If you came back to the thread just to make a patronizing statement without speaking to anyone in general, then I don't really see the point in that at all, lol.
That being said, I wonder how Sheldon is going to build his Leovold deck. Last time I heard about him testing/building something specifically like this, it was with Prossh in a generic Jund build that didn't even run Food Chain, so this is either going to relieve me or make me more worried about Leovold getting banned, lol. For all I know, this could just be the Narset situation again and it'll go by the wayside fairly quickly, but I am curious as to what his build will contain.
August 26, 2016 4:02 p.m.
Deckologist says... #28
If it's Sheldon I'm sure it will abide but not break his card drawing mechanic. I would assume he would run howling mine effects since they become one sided.
Alas I apologize. Someone had posted something OP colors and I read it as him being OP without his colors. I came back to tell everyone that Sheldon was playing him as a sigh of relief that he was. He claims to be the most excited about Leo which is saying something. I still don't find him to be that bit a problem. I think we will find him to be just like other strong casual generals in the aspect of how he's played. As I stated before the argument has been used for dead-eye nav when Sheldon was asked about banning it. It all comes down to how people use it. I could also just be trying to justify spending too much money for a foil Leo haha
August 26, 2016 7:27 p.m.
PookandPie says... #30
I feel you: I'm actively building Leo in paper right now, too, though I'm thinking about setting off a 10 card sideboard to switch it between "Competitive Doomsday nonsense" and "This doesn't make everyone's feel goods feel bad." A batch of cards like Font of Mythos, Howling Mine, Anvil of Bogardan, etc., maybe exchange Doomsday and its package for Tooth and Nail plus two big green guys (Craterhoof and Avenger come to mind for right now). Then, if I go to some Commander FNMs or something, I'll just shove Puzzle Box, Doomsday, etc., back in, 1:1. Or I'll just play Zur/Arcum there, not sure, lol.
August 26, 2016 11:04 p.m.
Deckologist says... #31
I'm having a hard time justifying taking apart two of my favorite decks to build Leo. I like the idea of having a deck that can easily switch out 10 or so cards to become meaner or nicer haha. Decisions, decisions.
August 26, 2016 11:58 p.m.
SweetSupremacy says... #32
He's insane. Just wait til the tuned lists start rolling in. I'm building with wheels, control and combo. Just be prepared to go 3 vs 1.
August 27, 2016 2:35 p.m.
I need to cut some cards.. Any suggestions?
The deck: Leovold EDH
August 27, 2016 4:42 p.m.
Deckologist says... #34
There's not even a need for wheels. Just use Teferi's Puzzle Box. has a ton of ways to tutor/recur it. If you're going the combo route I would just use that.
August 28, 2016 11:04 a.m.
Lilbrudder says... #35
I think cutting all the wheels is a mistake. I agree you only need about three or four of them in total in addition to puzzle box, but there are a ton more ways to get the wheels in play than the puzzle box so going all in makes the deck way more inconsistent. The wheels are far more useful in closing out the game too IMO as they replenish your hand whereas puzzle box just gives new cards. Yes it completely strips opponents hands away but I would rather have 7 new cards with my opponents sitting at 1 than 1-3 cards in hand with my opponents at 0. The only good reason to not use the wheels is you don't want to be a dick.
August 28, 2016 12:10 p.m.
Deckologist says... #36
I mean, I personally find it weaker to run wheels. i feel like using static draw effects are just strictly better. But I haven't tested the wheel situation. Then again, I haven't had to wheel anyone because I get the puzzle box on turn 3-5 pretty consistently.
August 28, 2016 8:36 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #37
While puzzle box produces a harder lock it has several disadvantages beyond the fact that it doesn't replenish your hand. I've done alot of testing for Leo and wheels are far harder to stop (aka doesn't die to Naturalize), they are easier to get into play (ex. Mystical Tutor, Bring to Light & Personal Tutor), and the good ones are also cheaper (ex. Day's Undoing & Windfall, which means you can cast them on turn 3 with counterspell backup (Spell Pierce & Dispel more often, assuming you run 1 drop mana dorks (which you should) unless its a storm build. You can certainly not use wheels and build a strong deck, they are just really good and add a tremendous amount of consistency to the deck. I literally goldfished 6 straight turn 3 leo+wheel earlier today and 4 of them had counterspell or Autumn's Veil backup.
August 28, 2016 9:56 p.m. Edited.
How about Cephalid Coliseum? Targeting opponent on their turn to make them discard 3 cards. You can also use it to loot for good stuff or reshape your hand if you play Eureka. Fun times with Crucible of Worlds or Life from the Loam. The 1 life drawback is minimal in EDH. The good wheels Day's Undoing & Time Spiral removes threshold. Is it worth inclusion?
August 29, 2016 12:41 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #39
I have found threshold to be very hard to get to in my testing unless I use Windfall or Whispering Madness. In that case my opponents already don't have a hand, which limits its value a bit. It would be an auto-include in a reanimator build if you went that route.
August 29, 2016 12:50 p.m.
Lilbrudder well im running a fatties theme, with Show and Tell and Eureka rather than Reanimate (i LOVE dropping Eureka after a wheel :D). I do run Animate Dead and Entomb (entomb is support for both for animate dead and Crucible of Worlds). Im all for going more reanimate, do you know any cards that would support that? Any reanimate spells that are particularly good in EDH? I think there is something that both discards and reanimates, but i cant remember the name... I dont want to add a bunch of discard outlets to support a reanimate theme, my list is pretty tight as it is..
My deck:
Leovold EDH
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 3 | 1 COMMENT | 524 VIEWS
August 29, 2016 1:16 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #41
smackjack: Sorry for the late response to your question. It has been a shitstorm of a day... My essentials only reanimation package includes Buried Alive Entomb Intuition, Animate Dead, Reanimate and Victimize. With the proper amount of quality tutors and ramp, these cards can facilitate turn 2-3 victories like clockwork if you play combo creatures like Necrotic Ooze and mike+trike. Even if your goal is to just cheat fatties into play you really can't go wrong with any of those cards. The only card I know of that puts cards in the graveyard and reanimates them is Body Snatcher.
August 29, 2016 7:33 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #42
I almost forgot. Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman are pretty solid too.
August 29, 2016 7:51 p.m.
Oath of Druids is a bad idea right? Im considering removing Birds of Paradise and the other low cost creatures and including Oath of Druids and Selvala's Stampede. The problem is that Oath fuels my opponents once i have the most creatures. And helping them get creatures is not really what i want after i lock everyone out.
August 30, 2016 10:43 a.m.
Lilbrudder says... #44
Oath is great if your deck only has like 2-3 OP creatures at most like Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. Outside of that it is not very good
smackjack says... #2
im gonna build a deck with him too, finally I can play my Eureka safely :). Dark Deal + Leovold, Emissary of Trest + Eureka = fun times :D
Ive started putting the deck together.. Leovold!. Its missing all the wheels and such, since its only cards i already have :).
Subbing to this thread for suggestions too :).
August 19, 2016 5:23 a.m.