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When Sylvan Primordial enters the battlefield, for each opponent, destroy target noncreature permanent that player controls. For each permanent destroyed this way, search your library for a Forest card and put that card onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library.
Sylvan Primordial Discussion
1 day ago
Primeval Titan would ramp you up big time, and I'll admit it's really strong, but the lands do come in tapped and it's not like Sylvan Primordial or Sundering Titan where it's blatantly destroying lands. And also, it's an obvious target. You know it would last to attack even.
Braids, Cabal Minion takes one permanent a turn and hits you too. There are much worse legendaries in mono black right now. And most decks have some token production/artifact ramp now, so it's not always gonna hit super big.
Also, fair argument for Gband to be unbanned.
1 day ago
Honestly, I'm all for as small a ban list as possible. But it's just format warping cards (i.e. Primeval Titan , Sylvan Primordial , Prophet of Kruphix ) as well as stuff like the mox cycle, lotus, etc. That and game resetting cards.
But ultimately, the healthier a format is, the less cards it has on the banlist. And with cards like rift, either somebody is playing it as a game ending spell (i.e. they want an empty board to swing into) or they're using it as a wrath, in which case they probably don't have much getting bounced themselves. And neither situations call for it to be banned.
2 weeks ago
Dylan: While the place where the banlist is most important is competitive play, in the large band of not-competitive-but-not-bottom-of-the-barrel decks, either every deck that could run Sylvan Primordial did, and a lot of decks would run ways of stealing it. Plus on top of this, there was a large focus on getting it into play. It was the number one pitch and reanimate target and a lot of creature tutors (unless they were in response to something specific) would just go for it. Same thing as Primeval Titan before it.
Now, something that is a staple in decks doesn't inherently make it bad, Birds of Paradise is a staple in any 2+ colour deck. But unlike Sylvan Primordial it didn't skew play around the card, as MindAblaze pointed out. When that happens (and especially when the card doesn't provide a win condition in and of itself), I can support the banning of that card.
The differnce compared to something like Paradox Engine is that while PE can skew a game around it, the card is more suited to being used as a win condition. When it comes down, the game should be ending that turn. Not to mention that there is a host of removal in most colours that can deal with PE, whereas unless you're running Blue for counterspells, there are very few cards that can stop the bulk of Primordial's value (becuase you're not playing it because it has reach...). Yes, I know they exist, but short of a dedicated stax deck, people wont be running Torpor Orb .
Now don't get me wrong, in the spirit of the thread, Sylvan Primordial is a very good card and there would be a lot of deck which would look very different if it was unbanned, however I know why it was banned in the first place.
2 weeks ago
The point about Prophet of Kruphix and Sylvan Primordial being “format warping” is more about the casual environments where everybody and their dog is copying, killing, stealing and reanimating them as soon as the hit the board. Powerful effects are desirable. For “cEDH” there are stronger things to be doing than fighting over a creature.
2 weeks ago
Sylvan Primordial being cheated into play does not win the game, as you pointed out. There is no reason to ban it.
I don't even think the advantage it creates should be labeled as "unfair". In all honesty destroying three non-creature permanents and ramping three is not that powerful.
2 weeks ago
Dylan: the problem with Sylvan Primordial is that it was quite format warping (much more than even PEngine). Because it ramps you for 3 while attacking each opponents' mana base (let's face it, that's what you're hitting), it would provide insane and unbalanced advNtage, especially for decks designed to either cheat it out early, or to ramp it out early. And those decks would then recur it over and over.
But the problem is that it wouldn't end the game. At least cards like Tooth and Nail , Paradox Engine , etc. (For most decks at least) would actually represent a win condition. Once the card is played, the game will be over shortly after, unless it is interrupted. Primordial on the other hand did not offer this, it just created unfair advantage.
2 weeks ago
Long post incoming
Firstly there are several cards which are currently banned that I think have no place on the banlist. Frankly I think that Sylvan Primordial , Prophet of Kruphix , and Paradox Engine are not in any way breaking the format. I hark back to Epochalyptik's previous posts in which he highlighted the RC's unwillingness to accept the fact that commander is more then just a causal format but also a competitive format.
If a group wishes implement a house ban on cards that are "moderately powerful" that's on them, I dont think the RC needs to ban those cards however.
As far as a card I would like to see unbanned, I think Iona, Shield of Emeria would be a fun card to have in the format, specifically I think it would make white much more playable in the EDH meta-game.
I think the big difference with Griselbrand that is different then the other cards mentioned, is that it is instant and free to use the ability (besides the negligible life loss) I think that unbanning this card would be a big mistake as it upon resolution effectively wins the game. In essence what said.
I think there's nothing wrong with making a respectful comment about what someone else thinks should be removed from the banlist. Calling someone out for not suggesting a card, being incorrect, and offering a fake, sarcastic, apology is rude however.
Sylvan Primordial is not that strong, given that Tooth and Nail is legal, and can win the game on the spot, I fail to see how Sylvan Primordial breaks the game or is on the same power level as other cards on the list.
Unbanning Tolarian Academy would make artifact decks incredibly powerful, and would be a big mistake for the format.
Instead of bringing something back from the banlist can we bring back the old tuck rule?
2 weeks ago
TypicalTimmy I’m not sure why you are calling out ’s pick. The question at hand is “what one card would you pick to unban if you could” not “should Sylvan Primordial be unbanned”. You call out someone’s choice, then, on top of that, don’t actually name a card you want unbanned. I’m calling you out for not following the guidelines of the forum. If you want to talk about cards merits of banning and unbanning commander cards, create a forum. As for my choice of cards to unban Primeval Titan would be my first card. I enjoy ramp, while putting pressure on my opponents. Fills both roles that no other cards, in my opinion, are filling in commander.
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