Haven't played in 10 yrs. Need help on Angel Burn, Blue Eldrazi Extra turn decks and Planeswalkers

Deck Help forum

Posted on Feb. 22, 2019, 8:50 p.m. by B.A.N.E.

I used to play alot back in 2006 and 2007. I'm getting back into this and things have changed alot with the introduction of Planeswalkers, the Commander format, etc.

I tend to play multiplayer and need a bit of help.

  1. Angel Burn deck aka Holy Fire

This is a theme deck. The basic idea was to use Flamebreak and Earthquake to clear the board creatures while my angels are safe because they're flying.

Making angels indestructible and then using Wrath of God and Armageddon seems like a win condition. What other mechanics do I need to be aware of these days?

  1. Eldrazi Extra Turn deck

I love the Eldrazi and I've never played with blue before. I thought about using Planeswalkers Ral Zarek & Teferi, Timebender with Time Warp , Time Stretch and green Mana ramp to monopolize turns and grow the Mana base incredibly fast in order to then hit hard with Eldrazi. Thoughts on this?

PlatinumOne says... #2

if you're just playing casual kitchen table games, then the cards that are considered "good" are largely dependent on what everyone else in your playgroup is using.

if you're looking to play a specific competitive format like standard or modern, the best way to start is researching the current top decks and finding out how they work, and why they're built the way they are.

i will give a few generic pieces of advice for each deck though.

  1. angels: angels are generally kinda expensive. you wont want expensive spells like Wrath of God as your only removal. in fact i'd actually recommend not using board wipes at all in a deck based around creatures. you'll want cheap removal like Path to Exile or Lightning Bolt that can be used while you're still trying to get enough mana to cast your angels. or you can splash green for mana ramp and Shalai, Voice of Plenty . a turn 1 Arbor Elf and turn 2 Utopia Sprawl lets you play a 4-drop (like shalai) on turn 2. then of course theres also Birds of Paradise .

  2. eldrazi extra turns: you're trying to combine 2 themes here that don't really go together, and i'm assuming its because you noticed Emrakul, the Aeons Torn gives you an extra turn. but thats only if you "cast" emrakul. if you actually want to use everything you listed for the deck, it'll be 4 colors. that'll require a land base that is very damaging both to your wallet and life points. and all of the cards you mentioned cost a lot of mana, and you still need to keep space in the deck for interaction to stop your opponents plan. especially if you want to use your planeswalker ultimates, as those will need a lot of protecting. teferi wont ult until turn 8 without some help, and zarek waits until turn 7. and thats if they're never attacked or hit with a burn spell, and you never use their 2nd abilities

February 22, 2019 9:28 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #3

First, what are your restrictions on cards? It sounds like you are playing casually, rather than a sanctioned environment, so thus can use any card in Magic’s history (within some reason).

Second, do you know what decks you will be playing against? That will play a huge part in how optimised your own deck will need to be.

I know neither of those are specific deck advise, but an important part of providing feedback is knowing the parameters for deck-building.

February 22, 2019 9:30 p.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #4

@PlatinumOne

This is great advice and I agree with almost everything that you said. I do not understand this though.

"in fact i'd actually recommend not using board wipes at all in a deck based around creatures"

Why? If my creatures have flying Earthquake clears my opponents but not me. Meanwhile Avacyn, Angel of Hope provides the opportunity to have my creatures indestructible and thus immune to Wrath of God .

I'm looking to learn

"eldrazi extra turns"

Fair points. I'll build eldrazi out separatly. The extra turn deck though partnered with green Mana ramp and maybe a draw mechanism seems like it could potentially take over a game. Is there a way to ensure that I can take turn, after turn, after turn?

@cdkime

I have no idea what I'll be playing so I was going to build a couple different decks out.

My old White Black bleed deck My old zombie deck A new red white Angel Burn deck A new blue green extra turn deck An Eldrazi deck

That's three creature heavy decks and two that are not. I'm open to other suggestions

February 22, 2019 9:53 p.m.

PlatinumOne says... #5

btw if you want to tag someone to let them know you're responding to them, gotta put their username in double brackets the same way you'd link a card.

as for the board wipes, potentially "one-sided" board wipes that can be built around without additional aid (due to the creatures you use) are fine. examples of this are of course Earthquake when you're using fliers, or Anger of the Gods if your main creatures all have 4+ toughness. Wrath of God is not a good removal option if you're relying on an 8 mana card to give your stuff indestructible first though. you'll end up in situations where you either don't have your avacyn, or can't cast her, or she gets removed before you can cast Wrath of God .

as for taking several turns, i don't really know a way to consistently get a bunch of extra turns. the main thing to ask yourself is what you want out of those extra turns. if its just extra combat phases, you can look for cards like Combat Celebrant .

February 22, 2019 10:04 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #6

Well, in the absence of knowing what decks you will be playing against, where do you intend on playing? Just with friends or at your local game store. If the former, do any of your friends play competitive matches?

February 22, 2019 10:09 p.m.

PlatinumOne says... #7

oh almost forgot, Eldrazi Tron is actually a decently popular deck in Modern already.

the thing that makes tron, "tron", is the lands. Urza's Power Plant , Urza's Tower , Urza's Mine . this can give you 7 colorless mana on turn 3. the lands themselves, as well as the primary ways of searching for them ( Chromatic Star , Chromatic Sphere , Ancient Stirrings , Sylvan Scrying , and Expedition Map ) are all super cheap. eldrazi tron (also known as E-tron) is just one variation of tron, but the beauty of tron decks is that the core of it is really easy on the wallet, and you can fill out the rest with whatever big colorless threats you want, or even a few colored threats since theres still room in the manabase for color producing lands, and the "chromatic" cards add colored mana.

February 22, 2019 10:11 p.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #8

PlatinumOne

Capture of Jingzhou , Temporal Manipulation and Time Warp are basically identical cards and could stack a deck to let me consistently draw extra turns.

Those cards cost Mana which is why I was thinking of the ramp feature.

Each turn allows me a chance to get to a Planeswalker abilities sooner, cast more spells, use more combat phases, and set up a win condition faster. Thought Vessel and a draw mechanic might help smooth out the process.

I'm mostly thinking out loud right now as I try to decide if it's plausible and then how to execute on it.

February 22, 2019 10:26 p.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #9

P.S.

Capture of Jingzhou is not affordable.

February 22, 2019 10:30 p.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #10

cdkime,

The local game store.

PlatinumOne,

I appreciate the advice on the Eldrazi. I had been thinking of either hard casting via the blue green or doing some type of reanimate with black.

February 22, 2019 10:35 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #11

You are going to need to decide on an official format if you want to play at an LGS. Even if you are not partaking in Modern Mondays or Friday Night Magic, most of the other people playing casually at a LGS are going to have format-legal decks and will want to play against other decks in their format.

Before you spend a bunch of money building a deck, I would recommend talking to your LGS store's staff and some of the other players. Ask them (a) what formats people play; (b) whether it is a competitive or casual meta; (c) what types of deck are common; and (d) if many people netdeck (i.e. go to MTGTop8.com and recreate the format's top decks).

Angels tend to be pretty expensive to cast, meaning you spend the first couple turns behind. You could probably build an angel deck that's competitive in a casual game, but I do not think that particular tribe will be powerful enough to work in a competitive format. Once played, you probably do not need too many additional gimmicks to end the game--angels might be hard to field, but they're still pretty powerful and evasive.

With regards to extra turns as a deck, I would recommend against it. Let's say you're trying to play an extra turn spell. You're going to spend a couple turns playing ramp, meaning you're not actually developing a game board. On the turn where you cast your extra turn spell, you will be almost completely tapped out, and thus you're spending the entire turn's mana on the extra turn spell.

As such, your only real benefit is an additional turn's draw step and land drop-- Time Warp often just is paying to cast Explore and make a Rocky Horror joke.

Instead of taking extra turns, a better option is to rob turns from other players through a traditional control deck. In Modern, you can make a halfway decent control deck with Remand , Mana Leak , Delver of Secrets  Flip, and The Thing in the Ice as your core, then splash White (for cards like Path to Exile ), Black (for Thoughtseize and removal), and Red (for Lightning Bolt ).

Hope some of that helps.

February 22, 2019 11:26 p.m.

PlatinumOne says... #12

cdkime: i believe boros angels is still decent in standard.

February 22, 2019 11:58 p.m.

PlatinumOne says... #13

another option for controlling your opponent to get the same (ish) effect of "extra turns" is Silence , which you can keep re-using during your opponents upkeep step via Isochron Scepter . Snapcaster Mage can also allow you to reuse Silence , but the mage is pretty expensive. Mission Briefing is another, much cheaper option.

February 23, 2019 12:01 a.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #14

February 23, 2019 12:33 a.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #15

Those are some fantastic suggestions! The Thing in the Ice  Flip is something I was looking at and Silence is new to me. That's a fantastic card.

Than you!

February 23, 2019 12:37 a.m.

PlatinumOne says... #16

once you've built the deck on this site, you can post a link to it rather than typing out every card every time. heres an example.


$100 Tron

Modern PlatinumOne

SCORE: 1 | 6 COMMENTS | 179 VIEWS


for your angel deck, i'd reduce the amount of super high mana cost cards, and increase the amount of lands to 24. the Armageddon isn't really ideal since you don't have any nonland ways of producing mana. for lands, you definitely need dual lands if you want to use cards with double white and/or triple red in their costs. Arid Mesa , Sacred Foundry , and Clifftop Retreat are the best ones in your colors. Pyromania and Cleansing Nova could be traded for Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile .

February 23, 2019 12:50 a.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #17

Pyromania was an error as I meant to post Pyrohemia .

What are your thoughts on these two?

Entreat the Angels , Luminarch Ascension

February 23, 2019 1 a.m.

PlatinumOne says... #18

Entreat the Angels would only really work with mana ramp imo, and Luminarch Ascension is better in a control shell where you can make absolutely certain your opponent can't damage you. in that type of deck, Luminarch Ascension will be your main source of creatures, rather than actual creature spells.

February 23, 2019 1:15 a.m.

triproberts12 says... #19

Good to have you back in the community! I played casually as a kid and then back in the mid-2000's before starting up again a couple of years ago, so I can relate.

As said above, you're going to need to pick a format if you plan on playing at an LGS. The most commonly-played formats are Standard, Modern, and Commander. The issue I see with the list you've mentioned is that it falls into the Modern cardpool. However, Modern is such a fast and degenerate format that there is no way you'll win games with that list. If you want to play Angels, Boros or Mardu (WBR) angels are currently a thing in Standard. However, without owning those cards, it's one of the most expensive decks to put together, being almost exclusively Rare and Mythic Rare cards.

I think what you want to play is Commander, since you mentioned multiplayer. You'll be able to use all of the cards you mentioned. Along with Draft, it is easily my favorite way to play. The playgroups aren't so cutthroat, you can play on whatever budget you want, your options for deckbuilding are broad, and your deck will be playable for years to come. The caveat is that it is a singleton format. Here's a video by a popular content creator on building a Commander deck. Here are the official rules of the format. Finally, EDHREC is a website that compiles data on Commander decks from sites like TappedOut. I've linked to the Angel tribal page, although you should poke around, particularly in the commanders section to see what speaks to you. Good luck!

February 23, 2019 11:12 a.m.

Oloro_Magic says... #20

I will echo what most have said above, first you should be sure to talk to your LGS before building anything, there is no point building a Commander deck if no one plays commander, the same goes for Modern and Standard.

Personally, I am a modern guy who actually does play a Taking Turns deck competitively, here is a link to my own list Taking All the Turns. I would not however recommend that you build and play Taking Turns just getting back into magic for a couple reasons. Reason A is that most cards in the deck don't really have a use in any other deck in the modern format, so seeing how you have never played blue, you could spend the money to build this deck, or a version thereof, and then decide you don't like it and have a bunch of cards you can't use. This leads into my next point in that Taking Turns is frustratingly expensive to build, it is one of those decks that you really have to love to play and build because it ain't cheap, and it ain't easy to play.

I would second the idea above of possibly looking into standard Boros Angels, provided standard is played at your LGS, angels can't really work in competitive modern so unless your LGS is casual you may be in for a rough time nightly. The standard deck is actually competitive and fits what seems to be the option you are more excited about. Don;t commit to anything though before talking to your LGS, it would suck to spend a couple 100 dollars to learn your format isn't supported.

I wish you the best of luck and welcome back to magic, we have misssed you :)

February 23, 2019 9:32 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #21

You can build a pretty decent Luminarch Ascension deck using cards like Ensnaring Bridge , Runed Halo , and Spellskite . It is a bit difficult to pull off, and you would want some secondary win conditions, but doable. The issue is going to be the cost and what matchups you get. For example, while you can mitigate Burn some, it is a lot harder to shut down all damage than a creature-based deck.

Entreat the Angels is a bit harder to pull off, mostly because the cards that would make it work well have been banned in Modern. Miracle is an incredibly powerful ability - in fact, one of the top decks in Legacy (a much, much faster game than Modern) is Miracles control based around Terminus .

If you want this to work, you will need cards that stack your deck, like Serum Visions and Jace, the Mind Sculptor . You then want instant-speed draw spells, so you can cast cards like Entreat the Angels or Terminus on their turn.

February 24, 2019 11:21 a.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #22

Great advice.

I'm confused about something though. I checked the legality of all the cards listed and it appears they are all legal in modern, legacy, vintage, commander. Is format an issue or no? What am I missing?

February 24, 2019 3:35 p.m.

Oloro_Magic says... #23

B.A.N.E. Yes the cards are all legal in those formats, the issue with format is that if you take someone playing a legacy deck, and another person playing modern, 9/10 the legacy player will win easily. Similarly, if you played a modern deck versus a commander deck it wouldn't even work as the rules are different.

Someone who is playing standard for example, thus doesn't want to face someone playing modern because the cardpool is larger and more powerful. In addition, all modern decks are legacy legal, but if you brought your modern deck to a legacy tournament you would get crushed. The idea with choosing a format is to try and keep yourself at the same power level as everyone else at your LGS, and actually being able to play the game and win a game every once in a while.

Just because a card is legal in all those formats doesn't mean it should be played in all of them is the point people are making with format; that and trying to ensure you don't make a deck and go to your LGSW and find everyone playing standard and you now don't have a deck.

February 24, 2019 3:57 p.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #24

It's been said here and else where that this deck and angels suck. Why?

Is the it because new cards are so powerful or because of the Mana curve? It doesn't have to be a angel. It could be a dragon, Drake, vampire, or bat. It seems to me that a half dozen 4/4 flyers has the potential to end a player quickly.

Mind you my experience was in casual four player free for all pre 2007. What am I missing?

February 26, 2019 3:46 p.m.

triproberts12 says... #25

Essentially, in Modern, the problem is that the game ends before those cards even get the chance to swing. Storm will consistently Grapeshot you to death on turn 3 or 4. Tron will play Karn Liberated , All Is Dust or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon on turn 3 or 4 and every turn after that, effectively ending the game. Titan Shift will hit you with lethal Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle triggers by turn 6, and it will spend the proceeding turns blowing up your lands. Death's Shadow will put out a 10/10 Death's Shadow and Gurmag Angler a turn ahead of your big creatures, and it will then counter or kill anything you play.

If you want to play a modern deck that beats down with big midrange fliers, the best option you have is probably Skred Dragons. Basically, the way it gets around loosing to "unfair" decks is by getting out Blood Moon .

Here's what the Standard Mardu Angels looks like. Like I said, it's nearly all Mythics and Rares, so it's very pricey, and Standard rotation is coming in 6 months, meaning Lyra Dawnbringer will become illegal, pretty much killing the deck.

If you want to beat down with huge Dragons, Demons, and Angels, it sounds like Kaalia of the Vast is the Commander deck you would want to build. Here's what people are playing in that deck.

February 26, 2019 4:48 p.m.

triproberts12 says... #26

Again, I strongly recommend you choose Commander if you're just getting back into the game. It's fun, it's casual, and you'll get a lot more bang for your buck. Here is a budget Commander article by a content creator at MTGGoldfish that I really like. He's been building budget commander decks and producing online content for years, and that article is actually on updates to the original Kaalia list he built. I highly recommend finding out what day your local game shop does Commander, stopping by, and seeing if someone will lend you a deck and talking over your thoughts. Most player have more than one deck they play, and the Commander community tends to be very friendly and accepting, in my experience.

February 26, 2019 4:58 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #27

As triproberts12 alluded to, Modern is often called the "turn 4 format"--decks tend to either win the game, or have controlled the board significantly that they are likely to win the game, by turn 4. Your turn 4 plays should be powerful and decisive, setting you significantly ahead.

Angels do not do that. Most of the "good" angels are in the 4+ mana range, and lack haste, enter the battlefield abilities, or anything else that makes them an immediate threat.

This, of course, is all presuming players at your LGS are using hypercompetitive decks. As has been mentioned, it would be best to ask the LGS owners, players, and judges what people tend to use. There might be an opportunity for a angels theme deck to do decently, provided the meta allows for it.

February 26, 2019 5:14 p.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #28

Turn four kills is what I was missing.

I'm a noob again and way out of my league

February 26, 2019 5:42 p.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #29

I visited the local game shops and it sounds like most 1v1 games are modern with turn three kills or commander with almost all multi player being commander. Thus I'll likely do commander

March 4, 2019 11:53 p.m.

B.A.N.E. says... #30

So I gave up on red.

In tinkering with commander and thought I'd take a break, check in here and see if anyone has suggestions. It might be a little too big (200 cards) and costs way too much ($1,000) to ask for help but I do need to chop it apart.

My go to colors were always Black and White.

Zombie Angel Deck

My starting idea was simple.

If you have any quick suggestions let me know! Thank you

Bane

March 14, 2019 11 p.m.

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