Nathematical!

Commander / EDH* CommanderFun

SCORE: 42 | 118 COMMENTS | 13719 VIEWS | IN 26 FOLDERS


KevinLS says... #1

put in the Treetop VillageMTG Card: Treetop Village and get a Mosswort BridgeMTG Card: Mosswort Bridge. Your creatures may not be so big, but you'll likely get 10 power on the board at some point. It's a free card. I realize you're going for elves, but it's hard to leave out Primeval TitanMTG Card: Primeval Titan, especially when you've got ways to tutor him already.

April 16, 2012 11:47 a.m.

I would add in some more land to AT LEAST get to 35. I know you have mana doods, but 1 or 2 board wipes and there goes mana production.

I see you're at 109 cards now with only 29 land. Before I mention cards that really should be in here, I would cut Drain LifeMTG Card: Drain Life, Hymn to TourachMTG Card: Hymn to Tourach, Bottomless PitMTG Card: Bottomless Pit, Yawgmoth's BargainMTG Card: Yawgmoth's Bargain (this card is banned by the way, for good reason), Blightsoil DruidMTG Card: Blightsoil Druid, Lys Alana BowmasterMTG Card: Lys Alana Bowmaster, Elves of Deep ShadowMTG Card: Elves of Deep Shadow, Hypnotic SpecterMTG Card: Hypnotic Specter, Hag Hedge-MageMTG Card: Hag Hedge-Mage, Specter's ShroudMTG Card: Specter's Shroud, maybe Innocent BloodMTG Card: Innocent Blood.

Nath's two best friends in the world are UnnerveMTG Card: Unnerve and Syphon MindMTG Card: Syphon Mind.

I see there's a forestwalk thing going on, but I don't think I saw anything that turned a land into a forest?

April 16, 2012 12:24 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #3

Thanks so much for the input guys! I made most of the changes you all suggested. yeah Angry_Graybeard... it was tough getting down from 109. I did realize that Yawgmoth's BargainMTG Card: Yawgmoth's Bargain was banned just before you posted that, and I considered NecropotenceMTG Card: Necropotence and GreedMTG Card: Greed as replacements but decided that Tutors and Sylvan LibraryMTG Card: Sylvan Library were enough. I'm not convinced about Primeval TitanMTG Card: Primeval Titan yet, even though he can get non-basic lands out too, but I'm try running him for a bit and see how I like it. I understand that the land count is still pretty low at 31. but I'm pretty confident with the general low casting costs of all my creatures, not really needing too much in the first place. The mass mana elves would be sooo much better if I could have access to casting more elves from my deck or drawing more cards (why I considered GreedMTG Card: Greed). perhaps a Glimpse of NatureMTG Card: Glimpse of Nature?? I'll try testing them out a bit. thanks again!

April 16, 2012 1:54 p.m.

Just out of curiosity, did you plan for your wife to use it so you two can just play or was it meant to be played in a regular multiplayer game? A lot of the changes I recommended was for multiplayer games.

If I was to do a Nath EDH deck, I'd run discard->tokens->pumps then roughly some combination of 14 draw/ramp/misc. stuff. (I love GreedMTG Card: Greed by the way. Old school hotness.) On a side note, if you have a Glimpse of NatureMTG Card: Glimpse of Nature, ok cool. If not, it's a pretty pricey card. I personally wouldn't use it since Nath is relying more on tokens than casting creatures.

And not to throw even MORE cards your way, but something like Parallel LivesMTG Card: Parallel Lives would be cool in here. I forgot Geth's GrimoireMTG Card: Geth's Grimoire is like...the best thing ever for Nath. And Vulturous ZombieMTG Card: Vulturous Zombie would be REALLY awesome. (I know you are sticking to elves, but that was just food for thought)

Lastly, one problem I tend to see with Nath decks is people run out of cards in hand at a certain point so you don't get as many tokens consistently.

April 16, 2012 2:22 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #5

I agree that opponents with no-hands is a problem with any discard EDH. Memory JarMTG Card: Memory Jar, Anvil of BogardanMTG Card: Anvil of Bogardan and Quest for the Nihil StoneMTG Card: Quest for the Nihil Stone are a couple of answers to that problem but I'll have to just try things for a few days before I add more fixes. I do have a Glimpse of NatureMTG Card: Glimpse of Nature but your suggestion of the Geth's GrimoireMTG Card: Geth's Grimoire quickly replaced that idea. I decided to take out the Mosswort BridgeMTG Card: Mosswort Bridge and the Howltooth HollowMTG Card: Howltooth Hollow because whenever I used them I found that the spell options only cost 3 or 4 at most, and I'd rather just hard cast them with all the mana ramp I have, so I just replaced them with a swamp and forest. As for the forestwalk, I am throwing in a Mystic CompassMTG Card: Mystic Compass as an experiment.

And lastly, to satisfy your curiosity, this is definitely a deck for multiplayer. We may play one on one occasionally, but we already play cube so much with our neighbors that it makes more sense to build it around a multiplayer setting.

Oh and I took out some of the raise dead stuff and put in some pro token stuff instead... like your Parallel LivesMTG Card: Parallel Lives suggestion.

April 16, 2012 6:46 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #6

Just added Prowess of the FairMTG Card: Prowess of the Fair and Living DeathMTG Card: Living Death to guard against wipes... which I found was a big weakness while testing. Also I added a few lands I thought important: Grim BackwoodsMTG Card: Grim Backwoods, Woodland CemeteryMTG Card: Woodland Cemetery and MutavaultMTG Card: Mutavault.

April 17, 2012 5:53 p.m.

KevinLS says... #7

I really like the creatures you have here. But Ambush CommanderMTG Card: Ambush Commander is sooo risky. You mentioned you already have a weakness to board wipes, with him in play your opponent gets a free ArmageddonMTG Card: Armageddon. Losing all your creatures and lands, not much you can do to recover from that. And since they're only 1/1 ones (as opposed Liege of the TangleMTG Card: Liege of the Tangle's 8/8s), if you attack with them you'll lose land. You'd need an OverrunMTG Card: Overrun or Triumph of the Hordes MTG Card: Triumph of the Hordes to combo with that.

April 17, 2012 6:37 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #8

KevinLS... you're right. Ambush CommanderMTG Card: Ambush Commander is risky, and a greedy card. I switched it out for Lys Alana BowmasterMTG Card: Lys Alana Bowmaster to try it out because I realize there isn't much protection from flying. Also I like getting away from a 5 mana cost elf :). I am also considering finding a place for Lys Alana HuntmasterMTG Card: Lys Alana Huntmaster and Lys Alana ScarbladeMTG Card: Lys Alana Scarblade. Thoughts?

April 18, 2012 1:46 a.m.

CommanderFun says... #9

...to add more protection, I put in Steely ResolveMTG Card: Steely Resolve and Aspect of MongooseMTG Card: Aspect of Mongoose. I took out the cards Mind SlashMTG Card: Mind Slash and Mystic CompassMTG Card: Mystic Compass (even though I was starting to get attached to that weird card lol).

April 24, 2012 1:42 a.m.

zandl says... #10

Liliana of the VeilMTG Card: Liliana of the Veil would be ridiculous. In a 4-way game, you'd get 3 Elf Tokens for essentially nothing.

Drop the Vivid Lands. There's literally no reason to run them in 2-color decks. They only slow you down.

April 24, 2012 2:55 p.m.

zandl says... #11

And Mind SlashMTG Card: Mind Slash should definitely be main-board. With Nath of the Gilt-LeafMTG Card: Nath of the Gilt-Leaf out, you have infinite discarding. Sac a non-Nath creature, make them discard, sac your token, make them discard, sac your token, make them discard, etc.

April 24, 2012 2:57 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #12

yeah zandl I keep going back n forth between Liliana of the VeilMTG Card: Liliana of the Veil and Liliana VessMTG Card: Liliana Vess. I had veil in for forever and recently switched to vess for her tutor ability... I miss the all discard. I also JUST took out Mind SlashMTG Card: Mind Slash to put in some creature protection (AsceticismMTG Card: Asceticism and Steely ResolveMTG Card: Steely Resolve). I figured that, instead of Mind SlashMTG Card: Mind Slash, I'd just use Sadistic HypnotistMTG Card: Sadistic Hypnotist who is so much easier to get in play from the library with green since he's a creature (Primal CommandMTG Card: Primal Command, Fauna ShamanMTG Card: Fauna Shaman, Survival of the FittestMTG Card: Survival of the Fittest and sometimes even Hell's CaretakerMTG Card: Hell's Caretaker). It is indeed nice having both though... as always it's hard to take things out. I'll definitely consider putting them back in... in fact I'm already thinking you're right about switching out the veil and the vess. :)

April 24, 2012 4:18 p.m.

zandl says... #13

Why not just use both Lilianas? They're both certainly worth using.

April 24, 2012 7:31 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #14

Decided to take zandl's advice and switch out Necrogen MistsMTG Card: Necrogen Mists for Liliana of the VeilMTG Card: Liliana of the Veil since they have similar effects except veil gives you more control over the discarding, plus Necrogen MistsMTG Card: Necrogen Mists or Bottomless PitMTG Card: Bottomless Pit can become annoying sometimes. Also, since I seem to be focusing on defensive strategies now, I'm trying to see if there was any need for a Lightning GreavesMTG Card: Lightning Greaves or a Darksteel PlateMTG Card: Darksteel Plate. (should I switch out AsceticismMTG Card: Asceticism?)

April 26, 2012 11:55 a.m.

zandl says... #15

Lightning GreavesMTG Card: Lightning Greaves and Darksteel PlateMTG Card: Darksteel Plate are defensive. They protect Nath and keep him in play.

April 26, 2012 3:23 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #16

OK... so... I took out Wirewood HeraldMTG Card: Wirewood Herald for Demonic TutorMTG Card: Demonic Tutor; AsceticismMTG Card: Asceticism and Steely ResolveMTG Card: Steely Resolve for Lightning GreavesMTG Card: Lightning Greaves and Dense FoliageMTG Card: Dense Foliage; Essence WardenMTG Card: Essence Warden and Copperhorn ScoutMTG Card: Copperhorn Scout for Seeker of SkybreakMTG Card: Seeker of Skybreak and Wirewood SymbioteMTG Card: Wirewood Symbiote... and lastly I put Mystic CompassMTG Card: Mystic Compass back in and took out a Vivid MarshMTG Card: Vivid Marsh.

Rationale: Switching Demonic TutorMTG Card: Demonic Tutor for Wirewood HeraldMTG Card: Wirewood Herald seems obvious its just better and instantly gratifying... plus I needed more ways to get my artifacts. As for Lightning GreavesMTG Card: Lightning Greaves I like the protection AND the haste and how I can switch it around my guys for a zero equip cost (plus AsceticismMTG Card: Asceticism costs a lot). Also, since I have no "spells" that target "creatures" in my deck, I thought I'd switch out Steely ResolveMTG Card: Steely Resolve for Dense FoliageMTG Card: Dense Foliage and mess with my opponents, while relying more on Eladamri, Lord of LeavesMTG Card: Eladamri, Lord of Leaves (+Lightning GreavesMTG Card: Lightning Greaves = nice) who's easier to get out anyway with elf tutors. Lastly, I decided having more utility and synergy could be achieved with more immediate untap mechanics than Copperhorn ScoutMTG Card: Copperhorn Scout by using Wirewood SymbioteMTG Card: Wirewood Symbiote and Seeker of SkybreakMTG Card: Seeker of Skybreak (we'll see after testing if Seeker of SkybreakMTG Card: Seeker of Skybreak + WellwisherMTG Card: Wellwisher > Essence WardenMTG Card: Essence Warden). Lastly I took out Vivid MarshMTG Card: Vivid Marsh (half of zandl's suggestion) and put Mystic CompassMTG Card: Mystic Compass BACK in because (a) I found myself wanting to use forestwalk more than Taunting ElfMTG Card: Taunting Elf, (b) it has protected me against WastelandMTG Card: Wasteland more than once, and (c) I'm completely insane and I like obscure cards ;P

April 27, 2012 12:35 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #17

Now I've tried adding some of my Avacyn cards. I'm currently testing out Descendants' PathMTG Card: Descendants' Path and Primal SurgeMTG Card: Primal Surge. So in the meantime I took out Mind ShatterMTG Card: Mind Shatter and Birchlore RangersMTG Card: Birchlore Rangers (were those good choices?). OH also I opened up a Cavern of SoulsMTG Card: Cavern of Souls today in a pack and put that in instead of my Vivid GroveMTG Card: Vivid Grove (at least to speed things up... ;D thanks zandl). in light of these new Avacyn cards having the need to draw permanents/elves from on my library, I put in a Worldly TutorMTG Card: Worldly Tutor and switched out RegrowthMTG Card: Regrowth for ReclaimMTG Card: Reclaim (that may seem dumb but I actually don't have a RegrowthMTG Card: Regrowth anyway... so if it ends up working out better then it saves me monies.) AND finally decided forestwalk mechanics aren't helping me as much as I thought so I took out the Mystic CompassMTG Card: Mystic Compass and the Elvish ChampionMTG Card: Elvish Champion (ouch) and put in two more lands because... well everyone was right and I needed more land... so there you go peoples (especially Angry_Graybeard)! you were right, and I was wrong!

May 7, 2012 11:07 p.m.

zandl says... #18

Noxious Revival MTG Card: Noxious Revival is better in every way then ReclaimMTG Card: Reclaim.

May 8, 2012 12:11 a.m.

KevinLS says... #19

The deck I use (Green Smash) is salivating on getting a juicy Primal SurgeMTG Card: Primal Surge soon (I'll remove 3-4 more instants and 0-2 sorceries, as long as I don't need too much protection from flying). But you have 13 other stop signs, so I think you're gonna be frustrated a lot when you hard-cast it for 10. Non-permanents seem key to work with your discard strategy, so I don't think that's really a good inclusion.

May 8, 2012 7:06 a.m.

KevinLS says... #20

It'd probably be too difficult a combo to include, but thought I'd mention that Craterhoof BehemothMTG Card: Craterhoof Behemoth would love Ambush CommanderMTG Card: Ambush Commander. That's a pretty definite win combo. I think you'd have to use Tooth and NailMTG Card: Tooth and Nail or other tutors to do that.

May 8, 2012 7:10 a.m.

CommanderFun says... #21

hmm... do I need a Presence of GondMTG Card: Presence of Gond?

May 9, 2012 1:29 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #22

@zandl: regarding Noxious Revival MTG Card: Noxious Revival ... YUP! ty!

May 9, 2012 4:30 p.m.

dethjakal says... #23

no Eyeblight's EndingMTG Card: Eyeblight's Ending? Always a good way to take out a creature.

May 23, 2012 2:46 p.m.

CommanderFun says... #24

dethjakal: I decided to use Lys Alana Scarblade instead of the card:Eyeblight's Ending. Generally speaking (very generally) I prefer a permanent to do the job rather than a single spell in EDH because I have mechanics to use it over and other.

June 6, 2012 1:56 p.m.

jstache93 says... #25

Bloodgift Demon interacts extremely well with Nath. I've used the two of them to great success in cube drafts.

July 7, 2012 10:19 p.m.

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