|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Ultimate Masters Promo (UMAP)||Mythic Rare|
|Ultimate Masters (UMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Mythic Rare|
|Innistrad (ISD)||Mythic Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
Liliana of the Veil
Planeswalker — Liliana
+1: Each player discards a card.
-2: Target player sacrifices a creature.
-6: Separate all permanents target player controls into two piles. That player sacrifices all permanents in the pile of their choice.
|Have (5)||, jecder , lorddarkstar , CampbellStev , rockleemyhero|
|Want (8)||pTpWaterkit , lcdrambrose , jover98 , RazorBackBean , termain , Lightfellow , tylanderrr , aolmenki|
Liliana of the Veil Discussion
2 weeks ago
Zavthedav23w Wow, thanks for that monster of an answer! I like that you already tried different approaches of Shadow. I'm definitely adding more Mishra's Bauble and Once Upon a Time as soon as I get my hands on some. Snapcaster Mage seems like a must, so will add that most likely 2 times as well. Wrenn and Six was an option I once thought about - but simply forgot about it (which is hard because it's so powerful). So I will see if I can get a copy to playtest it. Swapping Serum Visions for Thought Scour also seems to be worth it, especially when I play Mishra's Bauble 4 times so I am not that dependent on Serum's Scry mechanic. Liliana of the Veil will go to the sideboard when I get to test the new additions. You're right, she seems to be a better sideboard card. Kolaghan's Command will go as well, even though I think I'm gonna miss it :( But hey, it doesn't have to be forever.
Grixis seems interesting, I have to look up some lists and see how it works exactly. Esper had some cool ideas I wanted to play around with (namely Ranger-Captain of Eos , Teferi, Time Raveler , Path to Exile ), but the more I look at it, the slower it seems, especially regarding Ranger-Captain of Eos with the 2w in his cost. Well, I will look into some Grixis lists, buy some cards and then I will update here! Maybe I will participate in something like FNM (for the first time in my life) next week or the week after, to just playtest against some strangers. Another huge thank you for your insights, ideas and tips!
2 weeks ago
You're deck seems pretty solid aside from that it needs just a little bit of tweaking. I've been playing Shadow for quite some time and I can say that it is quite a blast to pilot! That being said, there are a couple ways you could go form here, I recommend doing the following: I recommend dropping your 3 cost cards ( Liliana of the Veil , Kolaghan's Command ). Those cards normally are better post-sideboard since they're more of "grind" cards. Definitely add 3 more Mishra's Bauble . The upside is insane, especially in a Tarmogoyf deck. 1. Artifact in the yard, 2. essentially a 0-mana cantrip, 3. also is technically letting you play with 4 less cards, this is because it is always going to turn into a different card for 0. Which actually increases efficiency quite a bit, 4. it lets you know what you're going to draw, or what the opponent might draw. Death's Shadow is played mainly like this: clear the way for your Death's Shadow to stick and then hold up Stubborn Denial just in case they draw something. Mishra's Bauble gives you a heads up on what answers your opponent may or may not draw. PLAY 4! This also leads to Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek . Always play 4 seizes and 2 inquisitions(maybe more) because they are how you clear the way. A turn 1 bauble (look on top and decide to: fetch, shock, or cycle Street Wraith then fetch) into Thoughtseize is probably the best scenario. That's also a turn 2 Shadow. Tarfire is fine, unfortunately it doesn't do really that much, 2 damage doesn't always kill what you want it to kill. I'd play 1 because the tribal type in the yard is beneficial for your goyfs. You may have trouble finding slots for Lightning Bolt and your removal package is already really solid. Since you're playing green, Traverse the Ulvenwald is a MUST! It ALWAYS gets what you need, especially with an array of fetches, cycle creatures, and baubles. (You should be playing at least 9 fetch lands, and 17 lands is more ideal, that way you get more action and almost every turn you get the full 3 life lost(also revolt on Fatal Push )). If you really wanted, to increase stuff in the yard, you could potentially play Thought Scour mainboard(I wouldn't play it in the side however). But definetly keep 2 and then add 2 more. Once Upon a Time has really been shining lately in tournaments so I would add 2 maybe? The leverage it gives is amazing. I'd cut your Serum Visions for Thought Scour if that was the route you wanted to go. Cut a Temur Battle Rage , 2 is enough since the third more often than not ends up being a dead draw and just sits in your hand, also you might need that slot for something better. If you wanted a planeswalker in your main board, you could keep Liliana, or go for Wrenn and Six . I'd playtest first but Wrenn has really dominated lately, if you ever get to ult it offers so much advantage. That's what I've got for that part but I'll answer your questions as best I can.
Biggest Weaknesses: Surprisingly, Death's Shadow has really good matchups all around, the only bad matchup is Humans, maybe tron. You do have to watch your life total against burn but you should win most of those games. You don't really need to build around however since those "bad" matchups are still favorable considering other modern decks and their bad matchups. You thrive on being fast and aggressive, the longer the game goes the more chance your opponent has for stopping your plans. So be fast and aggressive, but smart and also conservative with your Shadows and Goyfs.
A super awesome archetype to try: Grixis Death's Shadow. This is my personal favorite variant of the Death's Shadow builds, I'd recommend checking it out. I touched on most of the cards you should be playing(traverse, Bauble, etc.), but really it's up to you!
If you want to ditch green, go for grixis Shadow, I tried Esper for awhile and it's fun but feels more like a midrange deck. If that's what you want however, look up some lists and compare cards, you should find a bit.
Against creature heavy decks, the key is to pick their hand. Most won't be able to kill your creatures once they get big enough, so use your hand disruption to take the creatures that will be most annoying. Think about what cards you have that can deal with their creatures and spells, then pick what to take from the bunch.
(pro tip, if you see a Snapcaster Mage , take it because it can hypothetically just buy back whatever you discard instead).
I'm interested to see how your deck turns out! I hope I was helpful.
4 weeks ago
Your land count needs to be increased to at least 24 to support your mana curve. I would cut the evolving wilds for Prismatic Vista . Mutilate could be delegated to the sideboard to make way for your lands. Maybe change up your swamps into snow-basics and include Dead of Winter instead. Not a big fan of whip of erebos. I think Liliana of the Veil / Liliana, the Last Hope works great in your deck. Since you're running Geralf's Messenger, I think Yawgmoth, Thran Physician is a good fit as a draw engine.
1 month ago
- Settle is nice with kaya but if you are only running one the odds aren't to amazing you will have both out. I would also note that having more than 2 copies of a planes walker isn't great. Drawing the 3rd or 4th copy in a match is annoying being its most likely a dead card. I would consider just pulling some copies out and putting in more cards to react to my opponents board or have ways to protect my stuff.
- Also being you are running only 4 fetches Leonin Arbiter might not be bad.
- I will say when I build competive decks I usually only run 3 basics usually. Its what I see in other decks as well so that is also something to consider.
- As for RIP I would probably board out Lingering souls. When playing against dredge that Rest in Peace resolving will win you the game on turn 2. If they get removal for it it slows them down which is what your deck wants.
- Worship Is also a card that can just win games.But you would want more ways to get creatures.
- Collective Brutality there are two kinds of decks that play this card: Decks with high amounts of card advantage, and decks that have synergies with graveyards. Your deck is neither. It doesn't make a big Tarmogoyf . You also dont have lots of card draw so the card is less powerful.
- Liliana of the Veil is another planeswalker that can help with removal. Its plus one is a downside when fighting blue card draw so it would be a card to board out.
- Elspeth, Sun's Champion can help as well
- Tidehollow Sculler is amazing in your colors.
- Deploy the Gatewatch if you can last to turn 6 often feels amazing.
- Those are just some more thoughts. I hope I have been helpful
1 month ago
I particularly like Liliana of the Veil in The Rack decks as well as Thoughtseize which is in most cases better than Specter's Shriek . For protection against creature based decks a few Ensnaring Bridge could be used(which have really nice Invention art) as well as a copy of Damnation . Your mana base could also be improved Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth allows for the play of a couple of colorless lands like Mutavault or Dunes of the Dead (which works great with Smallpox ). I hope you will consider these changes which will greatly improve your pile of cards.
1 month ago
guero388 Thank you for the comment! Honestly, I haven't had too much time to play/test recently, but previous experience helps with the new decks as well. Mardu Pyromancer is a very particular build that often rewards experience of the match up to understand timing and sequencing. Most decks in Modern become more rewarding and more powerful based on the time invested. Stick with it! And, if it's not your cup of tea later, take a break, try something else, and find your niche.
Mellro I am very excited about Eldraine (mainly for the classic European fantasy theme, but also the big changes that will come to Modern). Chandra, Acolyte of Flame will need more testing, but I am always hesitant about Planeswalkers in Mardu Pyromancer. I have seen (and we could still use): Liliana of the Veil , Liliana, the Last Hope , Nahiri, the Harbinger , and Chandra, Torch of Defiance . I ask myself: "What does Chandra, Acolyte of Flame add to the build that these other Planeswalkers don't?" First, basic +1 ability does nothing for advantage, unless we start running Mardu/Boros Super Friends with Nahiri, the Harbinger , Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded , or any of the Chandra variants. The second ability (+0) does give us hasty tokens, but we have to sacrifice them, so only 2 damage is mediocre. I don't think Mardu Pyromancer is a token deck, per se, but it uses tokens to out value and out grind the opponent, through chump blocking and chip damage. Also, if we wanted a 3 cmc token generator, we would run Hordeling Outburst . The "ultimate" (-2) is actually one of the reasons I would consider running her, if only to consistently use Ransack the Lab for recursion and grinding. However, the deck runs at a slow, consistent rate, that we aren't trying to get rid of our hand incredibly quickly. Also, we run Bedlam Reveler and Seasoned Pyromancer for hand card advantage. I don't think we need Chandra, Acolyte of Flame .
Mellro touching on the new lands from Eldraine, specifically the Mardu colors: Castle Ardenvale is too expensive (in cost and requirement) for just 1 token. Castle Locthwain may be ok on an empty hand (and I would consider it), but Mardu Pyromancer usually doesn't run out of cards, unless Hazoret the Fervent is on the field and encourages emptying the hand. Castle Embereth is not bad on an established board. However, it feels like a "win-more" card, and Mardu Pyromancer (in my opinion) isn't a token deck looking to pump an endless amount of tokens on board; its purpose (again, in my opinion) is to outlast and out grind the opponent. Basically, tokens are like a cherry on top of a VALUE sundae. Castle Locthwain is the one I would consider, if only to give the option to dig for an answer. At this point, spending 3 mana to draw one card might be a bit of a heavy price. I would need to test them more.
saturn999 Thanks for the enthusiasm! We are still out here going strong!
Thanks again for your comments! The Modern Meta Match-Ups section is improving and I hope to have it completely done here soon!
1 month ago
That's a whole lot of Tectonic Edge in a deck that wants to cast Vendilion Clique , Abrupt Decay , Liliana of the Veil , and Shadow of Doubt . Not to mention I'm pretty sure Ghost Quarter or Field of Ruin both outperform Tec Edge most of the time.
1 month ago
Hey! So I have some suggestions: feel free to ignore any/all of them.
There's a reason Ponder and Preordain are banned in Modern, and it's because they're stupid-good cards. Being able to dig you to what you need and past what you don't for one blue mana is a REALLY powerful effect, even if the cards themselves may not look as powerful as they are. I highly suggest including them. I like that you're already running Brainstorm , though I think running two+ more fetches would be ideal; you don't want to get locked with two dead cards on top of your deck.
I do not think Path to Exile is good in EDH. Ramping your opponent in a format with everyone trying to do busted things is rarely anything short of a bad idea, and is frequently dangerous. (Note that your Ashiok, Dream Render does not stop opponents searching off YOUR spells.) As I see it, you may be better off just running another card-draw spell, which would dig you to more potent removal; I suggest Painful Truths . Three-mana: draw-three is a hard rate to beat, and I've been very impressed with it in my Tasigur, the Golden Fang list.
You have some good artifact ramp, but I think it can be improved. I really like that all your rocks are two or less mana -- three-mana mana-rocks are simply not good enough a lot of the time, especially with a four-mana commander. Unfortunately, a lot of the best ramp in EDH is very expensive: Mana Crypt and Mox Diamond come to mind. I do have some other suggestions though. Consider at least a few of the following: Talisman of Dominance , Talisman of Hierarchy , Talisman of Progress , Fellwar Stone (which is admittedly a worse Arcane Signet , but still good), Mind Stone , Everflowing Chalice and/or Thought Vessel .
Whir of Invention is a card you may wish to consider. It can grab your Bolas's Citadel late-game, but more importantly it acts as a to-battlefield tutor for things like your Cursed Totem or Skullclamp . Also, it's instant speed.
If you want to run things like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Consecrated Sphinx , I suggest you think about a reanimation package. In general, these duders will be tough to cast, and being able to cheat them into play will give you a competitive advantage. Entomb and Buried Alive are the best ways to bin your targets (though there are others, like Liliana of the Veil or your maybe-board Frantic Search ), and you can then use spells like Animate Dead , Dance of the Dead , Necromancy , Reanimate or Unburial Rites to profit for less mana than usual. Intuition is a fun (if not cheap) card to pair with Unburial Rites and some reanimation targets, thought the precise pile may be tough to determine. Also, due to your colors, you may even consider Dreams of the Dead . The cumulative upkeep can be tough, but if you run something like Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur then you'll be able to do your damage within a turn-cycle or so, and the upkeep won't matter.
Your mana curve is pretty consistently low. I think you should at least playtest Counterbalance , since you already have the Sensei's Divining Top . Counterbalance does tend to be a high variance card, and it may end up being more of a preference-call than a meta-call. But I like it, so I figured I'd mention it.
Depending on how often you get to five mana, Divine Visitation could be a win-condition in itself in this deck. Making a 4/4 every time you cast an artifact or enchantment seems... good.
Mystic Remora is good. In less-experienced metas, it is often an Ancestral Recall ; even if people know that it's better just to wait it out, Mystic Remora will still buy you time to develop your board and make land-drops while opponents try to outlast it. Being one mana was a mistake, but it's here, so what the hell.
Right. That's all I got. Good luck!
Liliana of the Veil occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.31%
All decks: 0.45%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%