Sudden Death

Sudden Death

Instant

Split second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't cast spells or activate abilities that aren't mana abilities.)

Target creature gets -4/-4 until end of turn.

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Sudden Death Discussion

StopShot on B&R February 15 2021

3 months ago

@TriusMalarky While Twin can force a land to get tapped on turn 3 to prevent 3 mana spells from getting cast you do need to remember doing so leaves the combo piece open to sorcery speed removal such as a Dreadbore , Flame Slash or Declaration in Stone in the first game and in the second and third game it allows cards like Torpor Orb or Blind Obedience to be played - tapping all out to put the combo piece down means you won't have counter-mana up to stop these effects from hitting the board and often the Twin player will instead choose to cast the combo piece on the endstep of their opponent's turn incase if there is a sorcery-speed threat such as T-orb that needs to be countered on their opponent's turn instead. The Twin player will (in most cases) only choose to preemptively tap down the land if they know their opponent is mana-screwed, if they don't have a counterspell in hand or if they know their opponent is running Twin to further stall the opponent's combo. With that said I wouldn't entirely discount 3 mana answers that can be made uncounterable by Cavern of Souls or Aether Vial or 3 mana spells that completely disable the deck beyond repair such as Unmoored Ego if they resolve.

I also think it would be more problematic for Twin decks to also splash in a third color for enchantment removal. One aspect that made Twin decks so oppressive was a solid portion of them would include copies of Blood Moon in the mainboard in order for it to be more difficult for their opponents to interact with their combo. Dedicating to a third color to run Dovin's Veto is going to come with not being able to run Blood Moon while being easier for the Twin deck to also get disrupted by an opponent's potential Blood Moon as well. On the other hand, Blood Moon has also been made weaker in the meta as Cleansing Wildfire and Force of Vigor make effective get out of jail free cards from sideboard.

Plus, I think you're undervaluing some cards in your assessment. Back when Twin was around the only one-mana spells that could remove an endstep flashed-in Deceiver Exarch was Path to Exile , Rending Volley , Vendetta and the ever so infrequent Skred and Lightning Axe and out of those, the only cards that were mainboard worthy was Path to Exile and Skred (which only worked if you were running a niche deck and you were going first with extra technicalities). Fatal Push has had a huge impact on the format being loads better than Vendetta which gives many more decks greater flexibility when holding removal mana up especially in game 1 given how playable it is in the mainboard. There's also Veil of Summer which also deserves mention and while you may see it as a simple upgrade to Autumn's Veil , fundamentally it's not. In the event I toss a Path to Exile or Fatal Push at a Pestermite and the Twin player responds with a Dispel , or as you suggested a Dovin's Veto , if I play an Autumn's Veil (which would effectively counter either counterspell), it would be a 2-for-2 trade. I lose the kill spell and veil to remove the Twin player's combo piece and counterspell. This lukewarm outcome is the reason why Autumn's Veil saw none if any modern play as Silence typically did its job better enough to warrant a splash in white over it in most cases if such an effect was absolutely needed in sideboard. Veil of Summer surpasses both because it has a built in cantrip that turns the interaction into a 1-for-2 trade in your favor and if the interaction happens while your opponent is trying to put a Splinter Twin on the combo piece it becomes a 1-for-3 trade in your favor. Veil of Summer 's value is by no means merely replacing Autumn's Veil or Silence 's role in the format, but more accurately it's replacing the clunkier Krosan Grip and Sudden Death that were typically used against the Twin-combo instead which makes it its own unique answer against the combo in my opinion.

Two more cards that I think also deserve further assessment is Sinister Concoction and Dovin's Veto . To say Dovin's Veto is just an upgrade to Negate I think is an understatement. "This spell can't be countered" is the reason Abrupt Decay was a banger of a card at thwarting Twin's machinations and I think the fact a Dovin's Veto can stop a Splinter Twin on cast makes it good enough to be a Twin-killer too. You suggested Twin might have to go into white to run its own Dovin's Veto es and Path to Exile s but I think the fact this card can also be used against Twin may be a more compelling reason for Twin to splash green over white just to have Veil of Summer as a necessary means to put up with the combined pressure Abrupt Decay and Dovin's Veto would have in keeping Twin in check as the Veil is the only card that can universally counteract both spells. (And even so Veil of Summer isn't a 100% failsafe as it has nothing against Rending Volley .) As for Sinister Concoction , I'm not going to pretend this card sees much Modern play, but this thing is a serious contender at throwing a wrench in Twin's plans and outside of Twin it's not an unplayable removal spell either. The reason why is it works much like your explanation for why Authority of the Consuls works - you can play it turn one and your opponent has no means to remove it without splashing a third color. Now Authority of the Consuls may be the more ideal card to use over it, but if your multicolor black deck can't splash white this is your next best thing and it even has some upsides over Authority of the Consuls . Sinister Concoction may be more fragile to effects like Stifle and Tale's End or effects like Spellskite and Apostle's Blessing , but it makes up for it when enchantment removal is thrown at it, as you can crack it in response to dumpster one of your opponent's creatures, in this case most likely a combo piece, while also rendering the enchantment removal as a waste in the process. This in turn is going to make the Twin player more cautious about playing their combo pieces before drawing into enchantment removal which can potentially delay the Twin player's progress harder than an Authority of the Consuls otherwise would. And if the Twin player doesn't have an answer, you'll always crack the Sinister Concoction in response to whatever creature they'll try to enchant with Splinter Twin to inflict the most damage. Even if you're playing on the draw or you draw into the card later, much like Authority of the Consuls , Sinister Concoction also bypasses quite a couple of Twin's favorite counterspells too such as Dispel , Spell Snare and Remand which is why I think the spell has much merit as yet another Twin-hate specific sideboard card that just wasn’t available to be utilized before in the past.

Lastly, the list I put up above was something I compiled over a quick gatherer search. I wouldn’t be surprised if I missed a few cards that may be just as worthy of discussion on countering Twin as well.

Epicurus on Toshiro the Vagabond

8 months ago

There have been a lot of comments on this deck already, and I admit honestly that I did not read the majority of them. However, this was the most recent deck listed on the Advertise Your EDH Deck thread, so I'll add my two cents anyway, for what it's worth.

Really, though, the only thing I can think of that's not already on your list is that you have plenty enough creature kill capability to successfully run cards like Waning Wurm, Rotting Regisaur, Clackbridge Troll or Yargle, Glutton of Urborg.

Also, I might mention that I've always liked Sudden Death, Deathstroke and the classic Terror and Rend Flesh as removal.

That's all I got. Cheers!

thinkoriginal on Wrath of Marath 3.0

1 year ago

WarSpaniel

No no, I certainly didn't think you were being rude. I enjoy the fact that you like deck, and I love answering questions about it!

Typically when I goldfish, I'll win around turn 5 or 6. I try to play out and around stax pieces and cast interaction as if I have opponents, so unless I'm testing for speed, the "god hand" scenarios are not the norm.

The only type of removal that would stop the combo, apart from something with Split Second like Sudden Spoiling, Sudden Death, or Sudden Shock, would be Enchantment/Artifact removal targeting Altar or Earthcraft. Since Marath needs to be recast, the stack needs to clear each time and you could lose a combo piece at instant speed.

Analyzing this deck to this level has made me find a few weak spots, so I appreciate the chance to go as in depth as I have. Two small changes I am making, and I believe them to be about where I will leave it (until the meta changes and new/different stax pieces are needed), include:

  1. Removing Static Orb for Sensei's Divining Top. Orb is a very strong stax piece. Too strong, in fact, for even us in many cases. It is very difficult to break parity on this Artifact without a commander who can tap it like Urza or Derevi, even with Seedborn Muse, Garruk, and Gaea's Cradle. Our dorks are how we get ahead on mana, and tapping them as well as Birthing Pod only serves to slow down our own plan. Divining Top, on the other hand, synergizes well with our 16 shuffle effects, as well as Enlightened Tutor, Sterling Grove, and Noxious Revival. Digging and card selection are also sorely lacking so this will be of great use.

  2. Lotus Petal, while powerful, is unfortunately one-time-use. Getting a stax piece out early is great, but doing so repeatedly is much better. Gemstone Caverns, while risky, has much better upside, and with Lotus Cobra and Collector Ouphe, a softened floor. Drawing this after our opening hand is a downside, but in our opener it is a pre-game Mox Diamond (perfect for battling turn 0 Sushi-Hulk combos), and hurts less drawing it later than does the Diamond. This card is a fickle, but welcome, addition.

SenseiRamen on

1 year ago

Sudden Death not a bad option. Could replace Grasp of Darkness .

MizzMizz on Mairsil, The Pretender

2 years ago

Thanks fellas!!, I'm gona try Solemnity , Phyrexian Revoker , Sorcerous Spyglass and Sudden Death out and see if that helps.

Caerwyn on Mairsil, The Pretender

2 years ago

There are a couple cards that completely stop opponents from using creature-based activated abilities: Cursed Totem , Damping Matrix , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , and Voidstone Gargoyle

Phyrexian Revoker and Sorcerous Spyglass allow you to stop Mairsil without targeting it, so it bypasses flicker mechanics.

Suppression Field taxes the activated abilities, making them harder to use.

Trickbind is another counter that has the added benefit of Split Second, and could be worth including.

You could use removal with split second to kill Mairsil without it being able to flicker in response: Molten Disaster , Sudden Death , Take Possession , Wipe Away .

Sudden Spoiling neuters Mairsil for the turn.

Raging_Squiggle on Can I deny a response …

2 years ago

Rules about priority from the Comp MTG Rulebook:

116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.

116.3d If a player has priority and chooses not to take any actions, that player passes. If any mana is in that player’s mana pool, they announce what mana is there. Then the next player in turn order receives priority

116.4. If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in between passing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or step ends.

As you can see from these, once your Sudden Death resolves, the active player (your opponent) immediately receives priority again, allowing him to cast his Giant Growth to save his creature.

The proper play here would have been to target the mana dork your opponent controls with Sudden Death , triggering the Emperor Crocodile 's ability forcing your opponent to sacrifice it before ever dealing any damage. Or if your opponent had more than those two, target Emperor Crocodile with Sudden Demise after damage had been dealt.

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