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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Escalate—Discard a card. (Pay this cost for each mode beyond the first.)
Choose one or more —
- Target opponent reveals their hand. You choose an instant or sorcery card from it. That player discards that card.
- Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
- Target opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
Bob_Spaghet on Cerberus (Need Help)
3 weeks ago
I play a similar deck in explorer on arena. My first main thought is that playing four copies of the legendary creatures isn't necessary, and they all get very bad in multiple. Typically, you won't need or want more than one copy of each per game, so I would probably stick to one or two copies of each max. I agree with the last comment about Memory Deluge, that card is the truth in this type of deck and should probably replace Search; I also agree that Strategic Planning and Collective Brutality are clunky. I strongly recommend some split of Censor, Tainted Indulgence, or Thought Erasure replacing all eight Plannings and Brutalities. I also think any black deck needs at least three copies of Fatal Push; that card is incredibly well placed right now. Finally, I think that some number of hard counter spells are necessary in case you match up against other controlling strategies. Sinister Sabotage, Saw it Coming, or just good old Negate would probably be better than the third and fourth copies of Dreadbore or Heartless Act
2 months ago
9-lives i’m not suggesting you get rid of healing, i’m saying those cards that only gain you life are super sub-optimal - on their own they don’t improve your boardstate, and so you’ll end up empty handed and beaten-down. Lifegain cards should do more than just gain life, like Collective Brutality or Righteous Valkyrie.
In Modern you need for cards to be good on their own - a card that only gains life is not.
MusicGoat18 on Jund Twist - Modern
2 months ago
zapyourtumor, thank you very much! You have been a great help, and I appreciate your time and effort in helping me. I have been leaning toward Thrill since I can cast it during an opponent's end step. Also, the haste part in Bitter Reunion isn't as relevant and requires etb to trigger the discard and draw. I completely forgot about Collective Brutality tbh as a way to discard. I definitely will make room for it in the sideboard. I will continue to playtest the given options and keep an eye out for better ones as sets release.
zapyourtumor on Jund Twist - Modern
2 months ago
Yeah so the best discard outlet, Faithless Looting, was banned a while ago (victim of HOEgaak that disgusting deck).
The best 2 mana discard outlet in red being played in most reanimation decks is Bitter Reunion currently, because after Persisting an Archon of Cruelty you can give it haste and attack for another trigger which is backbreaking. Here, the second ability is probably less relevant since Goryo's gives haste, but I still think it's better than the other options. The main issue with Faithless Salvaging is that its both slow and you're also going down on card advantage, UNLESS: you play it with cards in your hand, and then cast all cards in your hand, so you only draw a card on rebound (breaking even). Or you cast it with no cards in your hand, drawing two cards over two turns (generating card advantage).
Unfortunately many of the other good discard outlets are in blue, examples being: Prismari Command, Faithful Mending, Tainted Indulgence, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip, Ledger Shredder, etc.
As I said the kind of discard outlet you run generally depends on what you want the deck to do: I'd say they are all tradeoffs between speed and power. On the fastest side we have Haggle, which can be used for turn 2 hasty Boar + Emmy although it requires 4 cards in hand. Somewhere in between but still towards the faster side we have all of the 2 mana discard spells in red. And then further toward the power side we have cards like Collective Brutality. And further still we have all the generally good cards like Fable, Spyro, etc. So basically you need to decide what balance between speed and grinding power you want the deck to have. To try and make it easier I rated all of the options in jund colors I think are worth considering along three criteria: speed, power, and flexibility. Given that this deck is a grindy midrange deck at heart (or at least I think that is what you are aiming for), speed can be useful but power and flexibility are more important in my opinion.
Speed 9 Power 1 Flex 1: Merchant of the Vale (1 mana discard spell, fast but that's all there is)
9, 2, 4: Bone Shards (also fast, but generally more relevant mid/late)
7, 5, 1: Cathartic Reunion (powerful but inflexible, seen in dredge)
7, 2, 4: Cathartic Pyre (flexible but weak)
7, 3, 2: Thrill of Possibility (less all in version of Cathartic Reunion)
7, 3, 4: Bitter Reunion (more flexible vers. of Thrill)
7, 5, 8: Collective Brutality (most flexible 2 cmc discard outlet in BRG)
6, 3, 4: Faithless Salvaging (slow, weak, only generates CA in late game)
5, 6, 5: Territorial Kavu (even slower because requires attack trigger)
4, 7, 7: Seasoned Pyromancer (both powerful and flexible, can generate bodies or CA)
3, 7, 8: Liliana of the Veil (powerful and flexible, threat + removal + discard)
2, 8, 8: Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Flip (slowest 3 cmc option, tons of grind power + flexibility)
Bone Shards can be used to sacrifice an Ilharg or Emrakul, and if you sacrifice Ilharg it won't get exiled in order to reanimate it again next turn.
Bone Shards, Cathartic Reunion, Thrill of Possibility, and Collective Brutality have the discard as part of the casting cost, so you discard the card(s) even if the spell is countered. Merchant of the Vale, Bitter Reunion, etc do not.
Collective Brutality is maindeckable but the versatility makes it stronger in the sideboard.
Territorial Kavu requires at least 4 basic land types to be effective.
Repeatable/delayed discard effects, such as Liliana of the Veil and Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Flip allow you to discard Emrakul the turn after you cast them and instantly reanimate them, spreading out your mana over two turns.
CheapnFast on King Narfi's Revenge
2 months ago
Dead_Blue_, I haven't really had the chance to test the deck against more competitive decks than some casual matches with friends, but so far I would call it more of a fun deck than something that would compete against top-tier modern decks. The tap lands are a necessary evil just because you need a critical mass of snow lands to get Narfi, Betrayer King out consistently on turn 3. I also wanted to keep the deck pretty budget-friendly, but if I wanted to make the deck less clunky and less budget, a playset of Polluted Delta instead of Frost Marsh would probably be the way to go without sacrificing access to snow lands. If I was going to move away from the decks budget restrictions, I would probably also play Liliana of the Veil instead of Collective Brutality, but that would really be my only major change that might make the deck slightly more competitive.
Dead_Blue_ on Scam Rack
2 months ago
Yea so after testing, this deck just doesn’t work.
When you get a Scam hand it’s amazing but it’s better just to protect Grief than it is to try to get Racks online & attack their hand.
When you don’t get a Scam hand there isn’t enough discard to make 8Rack an effective hand.
In conclusion just playing normal R/B Scam is a far better plan
Thanks for the feedback fellas
To answer questions, Force of Despair is an amazing card. I’m sure as soon as people figure this out the price will skyrocket through the roof.
Path of Peril could work but I personally prefer Damn
Collective Brutality is definitely the better card than March of Wretched Sorrow but I wanted a late game mana dump that could double as a pitch place for Undying Malice
I simple forgot to throw an Urborg in, fetches we’re for Fatal Push over thinning.
Anyway deck is RIP to me …easy come easy go
zapyourtumor on Scam Rack
2 months ago
I actually really like the inclusion of 4 Voidwalkers since it gives the undying cards another target besides Grief, especially since one voidwalker can cast cards exiled with a different Voidwalker (or its past dead self).
Having so many fetches in mono B for deck thinning is probably not necessary imo. I would probably put like 2-3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth along with 3-4 Urza's Saga. Urborg also goes pretty well with a couple horizon lands like Silent Clearing. Force of Despair is a cool card that a lot of 8rack players were excited to test out when it got spoiled, personally I don't think running 3 copies is a great idea in a deck already pitching cards to Grief but you could maybe run 3 combined between mainboard and sideboard.
Path of Peril is a really funny boardwipe since a) you can sack your Dauthi anyways and b) it doesn't hit Grief. Obviously some antisynergy with Saga but its probably fine if you sequence plays correctly.
This is definitely a deck where I would put some copies of Surgical Extraction in the sideboard.
20 lands is probably on the low side, although you aren't running any Raven's Crime. Need testing for that one.
The tweaks I'd make before playtesting would probably be:
-4 Bloodstained Mire -4 Verdant Catacombs -2 Force of Despair -2 Shrieking Affliction
+2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth +4 Urza's Saga +1 Godless Shrine +1 Silent Clearing +1 Pithing Needle +1 Nihil Spellbomb +1 Path of Peril +1 Bloodchief's Thirst/Funeral Charm/Dismember idk
Reasoning: with Saga, you can cut on Afflictions since you can tutor racks more consistently, Needle and Spellbomb are just mainboard saga target staples, and then some other removal to replace Force of Despair. Funeral Charm can let a big construct through with Urborg. What removal you choose to run is probably meta dependent.
This is definitely a lot more meta dependent so I can't comment as much.
Here Necromentia can probably be replaced with Surgical Extraction.
Go Blank is decent grave hate but can be replaced with extra Nihil Spellbomb or 4 Leyline of the Void, personal preference. Also good to note that Go Blank can sometimes be too slow (vs grinding breach) and also doesn't shut down some decks as effectively as leyline like Murktide, Scam, Grinding Station, Yawgmoth, Living End, etc while Leyline stops all of those in their tracks.
Delirium Skeins is a sideboard card against Leyline of Sanctity if thats ever a problem.
Path of Peril or Bontu's Last Reckoning can replace Damnation if you find yourself badly needing a t3 boardwipe.
Collective Brutality classic sideboard card against burn, and probably much better than March of Wretched Sorrow in 95% of situations.
You can also move the Spellbomb + Needle package to the sideboard if you think mainboard is too crowded with the scam package.
otttism on Cerberus (Need Help)
4 months ago
Love the deck idea, a few things I noticed.
Most decks I’ve seen that play 3 or more colors only run 1-2 “triome” lands. They are great, but having 4 of Xander's Lounge could slow you down late game when you don’t wanna draw a tapped land.
Heartless Act is great removal but having turn one Fatal Push is key against the low to the ground decks.
I have been trying to make Search for Azcanta Flip work since I started playing pioneer and the consensus I’ve reached is the same. It feels too slow.
Strategic Planning is a good card for graveyard strategies so maybe look at Impulse to replace it if you are looking for card selection. It digs one card deeper and it can be done at instant speed.
I’ve seen Memory Deluge used in most UW control decks and it has worked out great for them when it comes to card selection.
Lastly, Collective Brutality may seem rough but its flexibility is what makes it a great sideboard card. Maybe reducing the number of them and placing it in the sideboard will help show their potential.
Hope this helps out! Love the deck idea and hope to see other control decks get some traction.
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