Counter target activated ability, triggered ability, or legendary spell.
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Tale's End occurrence in decks from the last year
Latest Decks as Commander
Tale's End Discussion
13 hours ago
Thanks for your reply. No worries on the delay-- it didn't really take you long at all. Very thorough reply and if I choose to play those type of effects, I like your suggestions of Trickbind and Tale's End more. I like the idea of these effects because it keeps your opponents on their tows and likely you will get value off blinking their commanders with Roon because your opponents will just be scared you may have one of those cards in your hard. However, my group isn't super cutthroat and it seems like quite a _mean _thing to do.
Another question for you:
Is your wincon essentially to force out a scoop after taking/bouncing all your opponents lands? That is to assume they don't have a large creature presence and maybe don't give you enough to kill them when you steal with Agent of Treachery. I can see my group possibly being salty and forcing me to "finish them off."
14 hours ago
Bloodzy, I should add these into my explanation, haven't done that yet since the rules change. Voidslime and Disallow don't get tutored up by Spellseeker , which is a big deal in my opinion, but they are pretty good cards on their own. You could add a Mystical Tutor or to get them more reliably but that ruins the surprise and blowout potential, but it's still reasonable and the tutor can also be used to get other cards. Sundial of the Infinite , however, does not really do anything on its own and would just be there for permanent removal, which also only works on your turn.
The problem I personally find with this effect is threefold (in decreasing order of importance):
- I run enough removal (that is also reusable because of Roon) to be competitive in the format I play in and we are fast enough that Reflector Mage often achieves the same effect, the game will simply be over by the time they get to use their commander again.
- I prefer advancing my own position over trying to screw with someone else (unless they are about to end the game), because I have a very instant finisher in my combo. Slowing down one opponent (or blowing them out, likely making the spend the rest of the game trying to screw with me) is in my opinion weaker than advancing my own position.
- I play in an established playgroup where we basically play with open decklists. Not that it can't still be effective, but it lacks the blowout because my opponents will likely keep it in mind.
TL;DR: I personally wouldn't play them because I don't think they are optimal in my current playgroup, but I don't dislike Disallow or Voidslime . I don't like Sundial of the Infinite . If you want to run more of these effects I would instead reccomend Trickbind , which can't be countered, or Tale's End , which is also just a 2 mana commander-counter. Like the other two counterspells, they are more flexible than Sundial outside of the combo with Roon, but they are also tutorable with Spellseeker .
P.S. sorry for the delayed reply, I don't check my tappedout regularly.
6 days ago
@TriusMalarky While Twin can force a land to get tapped on turn 3 to prevent 3 mana spells from getting cast you do need to remember doing so leaves the combo piece open to sorcery speed removal such as a Dreadbore , Flame Slash or Declaration in Stone in the first game and in the second and third game it allows cards like Torpor Orb or Blind Obedience to be played - tapping all out to put the combo piece down means you won't have counter-mana up to stop these effects from hitting the board and often the Twin player will instead choose to cast the combo piece on the endstep of their opponent's turn incase if there is a sorcery-speed threat such as T-orb that needs to be countered on their opponent's turn instead. The Twin player will (in most cases) only choose to preemptively tap down the land if they know their opponent is mana-screwed, if they don't have a counterspell in hand or if they know their opponent is running Twin to further stall the opponent's combo. With that said I wouldn't entirely discount 3 mana answers that can be made uncounterable by Cavern of Souls or Aether Vial or 3 mana spells that completely disable the deck beyond repair such as Unmoored Ego if they resolve.
I also think it would be more problematic for Twin decks to also splash in a third color for enchantment removal. One aspect that made Twin decks so oppressive was a solid portion of them would include copies of Blood Moon in the mainboard in order for it to be more difficult for their opponents to interact with their combo. Dedicating to a third color to run Dovin's Veto is going to come with not being able to run Blood Moon while being easier for the Twin deck to also get disrupted by an opponent's potential Blood Moon as well. On the other hand, Blood Moon has also been made weaker in the meta as Cleansing Wildfire and Force of Vigor make effective get out of jail free cards from sideboard.
Plus, I think you're undervaluing some cards in your assessment. Back when Twin was around the only one-mana spells that could remove an endstep flashed-in Deceiver Exarch was Path to Exile , Rending Volley , Vendetta and the ever so infrequent Skred and Lightning Axe and out of those, the only cards that were mainboard worthy was Path to Exile and Skred (which only worked if you were running a niche deck and you were going first with extra technicalities). Fatal Push has had a huge impact on the format being loads better than Vendetta which gives many more decks greater flexibility when holding removal mana up especially in game 1 given how playable it is in the mainboard. There's also Veil of Summer which also deserves mention and while you may see it as a simple upgrade to Autumn's Veil , fundamentally it's not. In the event I toss a Path to Exile or Fatal Push at a Pestermite and the Twin player responds with a Dispel , or as you suggested a Dovin's Veto , if I play an Autumn's Veil (which would effectively counter either counterspell), it would be a 2-for-2 trade. I lose the kill spell and veil to remove the Twin player's combo piece and counterspell. This lukewarm outcome is the reason why Autumn's Veil saw none if any modern play as Silence typically did its job better enough to warrant a splash in white over it in most cases if such an effect was absolutely needed in sideboard. Veil of Summer surpasses both because it has a built in cantrip that turns the interaction into a 1-for-2 trade in your favor and if the interaction happens while your opponent is trying to put a Splinter Twin on the combo piece it becomes a 1-for-3 trade in your favor. Veil of Summer 's value is by no means merely replacing Autumn's Veil or Silence 's role in the format, but more accurately it's replacing the clunkier Krosan Grip and Sudden Death that were typically used against the Twin-combo instead which makes it its own unique answer against the combo in my opinion.
Two more cards that I think also deserve further assessment is Sinister Concoction and Dovin's Veto . To say Dovin's Veto is just an upgrade to Negate I think is an understatement. "This spell can't be countered" is the reason Abrupt Decay was a banger of a card at thwarting Twin's machinations and I think the fact a Dovin's Veto can stop a Splinter Twin on cast makes it good enough to be a Twin-killer too. You suggested Twin might have to go into white to run its own Dovin's Veto es and Path to Exile s but I think the fact this card can also be used against Twin may be a more compelling reason for Twin to splash green over white just to have Veil of Summer as a necessary means to put up with the combined pressure Abrupt Decay and Dovin's Veto would have in keeping Twin in check as the Veil is the only card that can universally counteract both spells. (And even so Veil of Summer isn't a 100% failsafe as it has nothing against Rending Volley .) As for Sinister Concoction , I'm not going to pretend this card sees much Modern play, but this thing is a serious contender at throwing a wrench in Twin's plans and outside of Twin it's not an unplayable removal spell either. The reason why is it works much like your explanation for why Authority of the Consuls works - you can play it turn one and your opponent has no means to remove it without splashing a third color. Now Authority of the Consuls may be the more ideal card to use over it, but if your multicolor black deck can't splash white this is your next best thing and it even has some upsides over Authority of the Consuls . Sinister Concoction may be more fragile to effects like Stifle and Tale's End or effects like Spellskite and Apostle's Blessing , but it makes up for it when enchantment removal is thrown at it, as you can crack it in response to dumpster one of your opponent's creatures, in this case most likely a combo piece, while also rendering the enchantment removal as a waste in the process. This in turn is going to make the Twin player more cautious about playing their combo pieces before drawing into enchantment removal which can potentially delay the Twin player's progress harder than an Authority of the Consuls otherwise would. And if the Twin player doesn't have an answer, you'll always crack the Sinister Concoction in response to whatever creature they'll try to enchant with Splinter Twin to inflict the most damage. Even if you're playing on the draw or you draw into the card later, much like Authority of the Consuls , Sinister Concoction also bypasses quite a couple of Twin's favorite counterspells too such as Dispel , Spell Snare and Remand which is why I think the spell has much merit as yet another Twin-hate specific sideboard card that just wasn’t available to be utilized before in the past.
Lastly, the list I put up above was something I compiled over a quick gatherer search. I wouldn’t be surprised if I missed a few cards that may be just as worthy of discussion on countering Twin as well.
2 months ago
At Nava's request i'm posting suggested changes, additions, cuts, and my thoughts on them. She requested that I not stick to only budget, but keep the max single card value under $30 (I kept it under $20 for the most part and largely even lower than that). As such, here are my thoughts and recommendations.
Courser of Kruphix- Ramp, pulls cards off the top of your deck so you are more likely to draw useful cards and just directly drop your lands onto the battlefield
Living Lightning- a useful elemental that allows you to recast your instants/sorceries
Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar- A very powerful card that also allows you to bounce your lands so you can replay them for more effects
Nyxbloom Ancient- Triple mana on an elemental.
Overgrowth Elemental- A useful elemental that pumps your creatures and gains you life.
Ramunap Excavator- Replay your sacrificed and destroyed lands. Fantastic in a lands deck. Omnath feeds on lands, and the more you drop the more cards you can draw and counters you can give out.
Roil Elemental- A fantastic landfall ability that allows you to grab key pieces from your opponents and use them against each other
Seedborn Muse take full advantage of your lands and abilities without worrying about being tapped out
Titania, Protector of Argoth- land recursion, elemental generation.
World Shaper- land recursion
Birds of Paradise- One of the best dorks in the game
Sylvan Caryatid- Fantastic dork
Brighthearth Banneret- You are a lands deck. You have more than enough mana and this simply doesn't do enough for you.
Chandra's Embercat- This will be a recurring comment from me. You are a lands deck with plenty of ways to ramp. This is a very limited card that costs too much and doesn't do enough for you. You are a lands deck. Increase the number of ways you can pull lands out of your deck to further your decks goals and increase the chances of drawing a non-land card that will help you more.
Embodiment of Insight- Too expensive for the effect. Also, personally I don't like turning lands into creatures as it makes them incredibly vulnerable without giving enough benefit.
Embodiment of Spring- Too expensive and not nearly good enough.
Generator Servant- The haste isn't important enough for your creatures as you very rarely have anything massive enough or has a useful enough tap effect that is being cast from your hand to require it. Furthermore, you are a lands deck with plenty of ways to ramp. This is a very limited card that costs too much and doesn't do enough for you. You are a lands deck. Increase the number of ways you can pull lands out of your deck to further your decks goals and increase the chances of drawing a non-land card that will help you more.
Grove Rumbler- This card is terrible. Four for a 3/3 trample that has an effect that will pump it slightly for one turn. This is awful. It feels like this card was only put in due to it being an elemental.
Lavakin Brawler- Rarely do you ever have enough elementals out for this to be worthwhile. Not that it's terrible, but there are so many better cards that can be put in its place.
Parcelbeast- Doesn't get enough value to justify the slot
Smokebraider- You are a lands deck with plenty of ways to ramp. This is a very limited card that costs too much and doesn't do enough for you. You are a lands deck. Increase the number of ways you can pull lands out of your deck to further your decks goals and increase the chances of drawing a non-land card that will help you more.
Tireless Tracker- This has nothing to do with your deck and you're better off finding other draw engines
Surrak Dragonclaw- No synergy with the deck and not nearly good enough to justify the high mana cost.
Field of the Dead
Bring your land count to 38 or so
Coral Atoll- This is terrible. I know you're going for the bounce effect, but this is far worse for several reasons. Firstly, it only gives you blue mana as opposed to multicolored. Secondly, it requires specifically an island to be returned as opposed to any land that you can then take advantage of. And thirdly, it requires the land to be untapped which means that not only does it come in tapped, but it requires an untapped island which means you can't even use that land and then return it for value. This is awful. I don't love the bounce lands either, but I understand what you're going for and their value. This has neither.
Lumbering Falls, Raging Ravine, Wandering Fumarole- These man lands are in here entirely because they can become elementals, but really aren't worth running. They are come in tapped, cannot be fetched, and cost 4 mana to turn into a creature, largely negating any benefit. They're really bad and I highly recommend cutting them for more basics.
Unclaimed Territory- Not really worth the value. It's colorless more often than not and another basic land will give you more value than that more often.
Mana Vault- Nava already owns a copy of this in her Nekusar deck, so it can be added here without issue.
Strionic Resonator- Copy all of your ETB triggers, as well as any other triggered abilities. Fantastic
Chaos Warp- Removal on your own pieces or an opponents. Bypasses indestructible and often is allowed through without being counterspelled due to the fact that it's usually replacing a piece that people agree is a fair target rather than outright destroying or removing without replacing. A fantastic card overall
Constant Mists- Great protection when you need it, plus it can be bought back if needed. Lands can be recovered through multiple means.
Disallow- A must have for counterspells. It covers all possible basis and is fantastic.
Heroic Intervention- Hexproof and indestructible at instant speed for 2. Amazing.
Krosan Grip- Split second artifact/enchantment destruction. Among the best removal for them there is.
Force of Vigor- Free artifact/enchantment removal with multiple targets.
Swan Song- 1 drop counterspell that hits everything but creatures. A great counterspell to have on hand.
Counterspell- There are better cards to replace this with that are still very cheap/budget and are overall better
Growth Spiral- A decent card but we can do better given the range of cards available in commander
Inspiring Call- See Growth Spiral
Return to Nature- There are so many better versions of this for an equal if not lesser cost. Or, for one more there are better cards which I will be recommending.
Struggle / Survive- Too limited, not enough value, not powerful enough.
Tale's End- This is just a bad version of disallow that very rarely gets any value.
Withstand Death- This is a bad version of other similar cards.
Wrap in Vigor- Very rarely do mass destruction effects happen, and when they do the usually say "cannot be regenerated". This seems really good but i've never really seen it get any value and will typically be a dead card most of the time.
Genesis Wave- Drop all the permanents (lands included) that you can afford.
Life from the Loam- pull lands from your graveyard and keep your engine going without running out. Omnath feeds on lands, and the more you drop the more cards you can draw and counters you can give out.
Nature's Lore, Three Visits- Pull forests (basic and non-basic that are forests) from your deck. Very helpful at any time.
Scapeshift- Grab all the lands you want, plus trigger your landfall and other such triggers
Splendid Reclamation- Pull all the lands from your graveyard. Nuff said.
Tempt with Discovery- If one person takes it then it's a better Explosive Vegetation. If more then it's an amazing card, but even if no one else does you get to pick your land and in a lands deck you will get more value.
Windfall- Refills your hand, interferes with opponent's plans, dumps lands in graveyard for later use.
Ground Assault- very limited and not worth running. There are better cards with similar if not stronger effects available to you
Hull Breach- There are better cards with similar if not stronger effects available to you
Quasiduplicate- no real apparent benefit to this over other cards that can more directly further your end goal.
Sylvan Awakening- I don't recommend turning your lands into creatures, especially enmass. It's just asking for all your lands to be mass removed. Very dangerous and will rarely get the payoff you need. Limited and will be a dead card in hand except in very specific scenarios.
Burgeoning- land Acceleration
Trade Routes- Bounce lands for more triggers and value, and in a pinch you can pitch them for more cards. Mana swamped becomes a thing of the past.
Exploration- Land acceleration
Domri, Anarch of Bolas- It seems like the main reason this is being run is for the +1 ability, which is really not worth running a card like this for. Not enough value.
Nissa, Steward of Elements- Without a large number of counters on her she gets minimal value, and if you do pay enough mana to make her viable there are already better cards you can run for those costs.
Eternal Witness- Unless you find your creatures or important cards dead often, or have a real way to take advantage of the cards in your graveyard, this is unnecessary and doesn't do enough for the deck.
Fertilid- A decent card but i've never found it gets enough value for the cost. it's a minimum of 5 mana for 1 basic land. You need to do this at least 3 or 4 times to really get enough value to be worth running over a land fetch.
Leafkin Druid- This is okay as a dork and an elemental, but I've found with tribal decks that you are better off running other creature and card types that better fuel your deck as a whole and really allow the tribe to shine, rather than forcing the tribe everywhere.
Tectonic Giant- Not good enough.
Animar, Soul of Elements- Unnecessary.
Zendikar Resurgent- Largely unnecessary due to the high number of lands in the deck, but can be kept if you feel it worthwhile
Frontier Bivouac- decent but comes in tapped and cannot be fetched. In a lands deck you will rarely be hurting for colors and the fact that this comes in tapped slows you down.
Simic Growth Chamber, Izzet Boilerworks, Gruul Turf- While I see what you are going for with these, they overall do slow you down and you have enough lands (once you bump up to 38 or so) that you shouldn't have any issue with them. I'd swamp these for basics as you have far more ways to grab those.
3 months ago
Hi guys, don't often comment on here, so apologies in advance
But I'm currently in an edh game with a friend who has a Spellskite and a Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy, and I have an Ugin, the Ineffable using his -3 to target and destroy kinnan. In response, my friend activates spellskites ability to change to spellskite, and I in response cast Tale's End to counter the activated ability of spellskite. He says that he can in response activate it again. Is this allowed?
3 months ago
Hi guys, don't often comment on here, so apologies in advance
But I'm currently in an edh game with a friend who has a Spellskite and a Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy, and I have an Ugin, the Ineffable using his -3 to target and destroy kinnan. In response, my friend activates spellskites ability to change to spellskite, and I in response cast Tale's End to counter the activated ability of spellskite. He says that he can in response activate it again (spellskite) on the ugin activation. Is this allowed?
3 months ago
I'm happy to see other people building Araumi, I think she's a fascinating commander which can be taken in many directions...
Given that you're going for the BIG BEATER approach, have you considered Grave Titan, Gyruda, Doom of Depths, Archfiend of Despair (he's a one-hit kill in this deck), or Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign (who gets NINE triggers immediately upon entering)? Stifle, Trickbind, Disallow, Tale's End, and Discontinuity can also let you keep the encored cards if that interests you.
This is my list, I went for more combo-tempo-value-jank. I'd love to hear your thoughts (and feel free to leave me a +1 if you are inspired!)...
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 12 | 2 COMMENTS | 179 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
4 months ago
VampDemigod The cards I just pulled out of my collection for the deck so far are, Sol Ring, Narset's Reversal, Reality Shift, Trailblazer's Boots, Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Thieving Skydiver, Expel from Orazca, Tale's End, Entrancing Melody, Fact or Fiction, Clever Impersonator, Tezzeret, Artifice Master, Rogue's Passage, Castle Vantress, and Scavenger Grounds What do you think?