Infinite combat phases
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on July 24, 2016, 10:59 a.m. by greyninja
Hey TappedOut users!
I'm running the following infinite combat phase combos in a new deck I've built, and I'm wondering if I'm missing any?
- Aggravated Assault+ Savage Ventmaw
- Aggravated Assault + Sword of Feast and Famine + Creature
- Aggravated Assault + Bear Umbra + Creature
- Aggravated Assault + Nature's Will + Creature
- Hellkite Charger + Sword of Feast and Famine
- Hellkite Charger + Bear Umbra
- Hellkite Charger + Nature's Will
The ones I'm running seem to be solely in R/G, but are there others that I'm not aware of? Possibly in other colors? Thanks in advance!
lonker this is in the commander specific forum. Power 9 is banned in commander. You also have 40 life in commander.
To OP, that is all of the infinite combat tricks that I'm aware of.
July 24, 2016 11:42 a.m. Edited.
ducttapedeckbox says... #4
Unfortunately most of that isn't legal in EDH,lonker.
If you can generate infinite mana, Deadeye Navigator and Aurelia, the Warleader is infinite combat steps.
July 24, 2016 11:44 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox I am aware. I just didn't read that this was for EDH
July 24, 2016 11:46 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #7
I believe Spellbinder + Savage Beating is also infinite combat steps.
July 24, 2016 11:46 a.m.
guys, I know the rules of commander (I even have multiple EDH decks) it's just that I didn't read that it was an EDH forum
July 24, 2016 11:48 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #9
Both of the posts pointing that out were before any of your responses, lonker. It's all good haha.
July 24, 2016 11:49 a.m. Edited.
Gidgetimer says... #10
So I realized halfway through this that the tokens would have to connect but decided to finish because I was already committed to it. Most of those also assume an evasive creature to copy in order to work. I have gone back through and bolded the ones I think could actually work. Mana from creatures could be Bear Umbra, Savage Ventmaw, or mana dorks.
- Elemental Mastery + Breath of Fury
- Feldon of the Third Path + Breath of Fury + 3 mana from creatures
- Felhide Spiritbinder + Breath of Fury + 2 mana from creatures
- Goblin Rabblemaster + Breath of Fury
- Hammer of Purphoros + Breath of Fury + anything that puts tokens in on attack (Geist of Saint Traft is the one i am thinking might work)
- Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Breath of Fury
- Rakdos Guildmage + Breath of Fury + 4 mana from creatures
- Rakka Mar + Breath of Fury + 1 mana from creatures
- Satyr Nyx-Smith + Breath of Fury + 3 mana from creatures
- Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper + Breath of Fury
- Splinter Twin + Breath of Fury
- Sunhome Guildmage + Breath of Fury + 4 mana from creatures
July 24, 2016 11:50 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #11
and while editing I inserted a caveat before the actual thing I was qualifying. Yay not proofreading the final thing lol.
July 24, 2016 11:53 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #12
Assault Suit + Breath of Fury looks like fun too.
July 24, 2016 12:11 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #13
you need Druids' Repository if you can swing with at least 5 guys with the assault each time
July 24, 2016 12:44 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #14
@MagicalHacker thats doesnt work. Breath of Fury says "if you do" to the sacing, so it won't trigger.
July 24, 2016 12:47 p.m.
I am surprised that Nacatl War-Pride + Breath of Fury hasn't been mentioned.
July 24, 2016 1:18 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #16
Nacatl War-Pride + Breath of Fury is covered under Hammer of Purphoros + Breath of Fury + anything that puts tokens in on attack. The War-pride does not inherently give haste so you need the hammer to make them hasty so they can swing on the subsequent combat phases. (Or Akroma's Memorial, Anger in your graveyard, Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon Flip's emblem, Cyclops of Eternal Fury, Domri Rade's emblem, Dragonlord Kolaghan, Emblem of the Warmind, Fervor, Fires of Yavimaya, Hellraiser Goblin, Madrush Cyclops, Maelstrom Wanderer, Surrak, the Hunt Caller, Temur Ascendancy, or Urabrask the Hidden but I didn't feel like listing all of those off with X + Breath of Fury + anything that puts tokens in on attack" so I assumed that what the hammer was for was obvious)
July 24, 2016 1:48 p.m.
Land untapper means SoFaF, Bear Umbra, Nature's Will or just enough mana dorks to make it work, World at War will never work for these
Flamerush Rider + Aurelia, the Warleader/Godo, Bandit Warlord/Scourge of the Throne + Stifle + Soulfire Grand Master + Land Untapper
Soulfire Grand Master + Land Untapper + Any extra combat spell
Reset + Soulfire Grand Master + Quicken/Permanent that gives your spells flash + Seize the Day gives a player who isn't you infinite combat phases (add mindslaver or something if you actually want to win)
Soulfire Grand Master + Reset + Illusionist's Gambit will give an opponent infinite combat phases but their creatures will either not untap or never connect
Abundance + Ophidian type card + Land Untapper + Waves of Aggression
Den Protector + Dromar, the Banisher + Any extra combat spell + Land Unapper
Lich + Dragon's Claw + Words of Wind + Land Untapper + Eternal Witness + Red Extra combat spell
Vesuvan Shapeshifter + Phyrexian Altar + Den Protector + Extra combat spell + Ghastly Conscription + 13-16 more creatures in your graveyard
Aurelia, the Warleader + Flamerush Rider + Restoration Angel + Something to give Resto haste + Any card that removes aurelia's angel subtype (such as Conspiracy)
Extra Combat spell + Eternal Witness + Flamerush Rider + Restoration Angel + Land Untapper + Something to give your creatures haste
: )
July 24, 2016 3:02 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #18
DERPLINGSUPREME, hmm, I never stopped to think about what the "if you do" clause was satisfied by. I thought it applied to just the last one, but I don't know. Like, for example, if I play Civic Wayfinder and fail to find a basic land, does that mean I don't have to shuffle my library because I didn't reveal a basic land card?
July 24, 2016 6:40 p.m.
DeathChant17 says... #19
MagicalHacker I would say that you dont shuffle, based on the fact Civic Wayfinder says 'if' So in that instance, I think, you search, fail to find, and don't shuffle since criteria wasn't met. Or maybe 'if' pertains to 'search'.
July 24, 2016 10:36 p.m. Edited.
Matt_The_OGRE says... #20
@NecroPony, not all of the p9 are banned in commander. Everyone forgets about Timetwister.
July 24, 2016 10:41 p.m.
Karns_Pyromancer says... #21
Not sure if anyone covered this yet, but Medomai the Ageless + Identity Thief should be infinite turns.
July 24, 2016 10:42 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #22
@MagicalHacker tried to post something hours ago....
the "if you do" in Civic Wayfinder is checking if you searched, not if you found something.
July 25, 2016 1:46 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #23
DERPLINGSUPREME, well if that card's "if you do" can be satisfied by a partial completion, why can't Breath of Fury's "if you do" be satisfied by just the reattaching?
July 25, 2016 6:38 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #24
I'm pretty sure that the attaching is the important part. The problem is that leaving Breath of Fury on the same object does not fulfill "attach Breath of Fury to a creature you control". You are going to need 2 assault suits and 2 creatures to keep moving it from one creature to another.
July 25, 2016 7:38 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #25
Why doesn't it, Gidgetimer? It doesn't say you have to attach it to "another creature you control", so I don't see why choosing to attach it to the same creature wouldn't work. Sort of like how you can activate an equip cost to attach an equipment to a creature it's already attached to.
July 25, 2016 5:25 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #26
You can't attach an equipment or aura to something it is already attached to. Doing that does not count as "attaching it" or it "becoming attached".
July 25, 2016 5:48 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #27
@MagicalHacker sorry, explained it wrong. ALL parts of the trigger must be satisfied for an "if you do" check, not just one.
July 25, 2016 10:38 p.m. Edited.
MagicalHacker says... #28
Gidgetimer, if you are asked to buy milk, but you already bought milk, would you say that the milk was bought or that it is impossible to have bought milk? Silly example, but I think it makes things a lot clearer. If the aura is already attached, then there is no point when the aura is not attached to that creature, but the aura would still be attached. I could not find a rule to support your reasoning for why it wouldn't work according to the way outlined in the rules that I found.
DERPLINGSUPREME, the closest rule I was able to find related to this was 603.4, which does not handle abilities with multiple conditions to be met. However, the evidence against that idea is clearly stated in the Civic Wayfinder example. Either this card lets you search your library, fail to reveal a basic land, and consequently not shuffle your library, or abilities with multiple conditions checks which of the two possible results is the end result. Either you were able to search your library or you were not. Either Breath of Fury is attached to a creature or it is not.
July 26, 2016 1:15 a.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #29
@MagicalHacker it says 'if you do'. we should assume that this would refer to it asking you to do anything that it listed earlier. it listed:
-sacrificing a creature
-attaching it to a creature
did you do those? no? then we can safely assume that it won't trigger it. Lets think of it as a cost. like Devoted Druid. were you able to put a -1/-1 counter on it and did you do so? yes? then untap it. no? then it remains tapped. its the reason it doesn't work with melira.
and fuck, if you're on to something wizards has some problems...
everything would be slightly more fucked than it already is
July 26, 2016 1:19 a.m. Edited.
Gidgetimer says... #30
What happens when you try to attach something to an object that it either can't be attached to or is already attached to is covered in 701.3b
701.3b If an effect tries to attach an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification to an object it cant be attached to, the Aura, Equipment, or Fortification doesnt move. If an effect tries to attach an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification to the object its already attached to, the effect does nothing. If an effect tries to attach an object that isnt an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification to another object or player, the effect does nothing and the first object doesnt move.
Remembering the the comprehensive rules are worded very precisely, how does this not support my logic? "If an effect tries to attach an Aura, Equipment, or Fortification to the object its already attached to, the effect does nothing." The effect tries to attach Breath of Fury to an object it is already attached to. Instead the effect does nothing. You did not attach Breath of Fury so you do not do the last part of the effect.
July 26, 2016 8:04 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #31
Gidgetimer you have pleased my inner Melvin! Too bad my inner Johnny is disappointed, but it was definitely a fun exercise!
July 26, 2016 9:38 a.m.
Karns_Pyromancer, in order for that to work you have to blink Identity Thief before the end step or one of them will die to the legend rule. Does work well in a Brago, King Eternal deck though.
August 1, 2016 4:53 a.m.
Karns_Pyromancer says... #33
sonnet666, I'll check with a judge, but I'm fairly certain it works.
August 1, 2016 9:23 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #34
"Until end of turn" effects last until the cleanup step. The cleanup step is after the end step, so he is right. Conjurer's Closet could be the repeated blink to get around the legend rule though.
lonker says... #2
Voltaic Key + Time Vault isn't only infinite combat, but infinite turns! I'm not too sure, but I think this combo is only in vintage and casual, so not as useful.
Turn 1 - Play Black Lotus (yes i'm serious), Sacrifice Black Lotus and put 3 colorless mana into my pool (it can be any color), play Time Vault, comes into play tapped, play any basic land, then play a Mox Sapphire use the last one mana from Black Lotus floating around to cast Voltaic Key, use the basic land to pay for Voltaic Key untap Time Vault and repeat until you get a 1/1 for 1 (you'd be playing blue for Force of Will so maybe some merfolk would come in handy?)
Turn 2 - (if you had something like Merfolk of the Pearl Trident or something in your beginning hand) tap your Mox Sapphire use it to cast the 1/1 I was talking about, use the infinite turn combo to hit with the 1/1 20 times and GG -Your opponent didn't even get to go!
July 24, 2016 11:25 a.m.