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Ninokun, I hope I didn't belittle you! My goal is to help educate players, especially ones that are not aware of what they don't know, WITHOUT making them feel dumb :O
July 13, 2020 10:02 p.m.
Ninokun, I would prefer being able to quadruple, even if it only lasts one turn :)
July 13, 2020 2:29 a.m.
Oh wow you're right!
Hmm, I'll have to reconsider then :)
July 12, 2020 11:08 a.m.
Coward_Token The problem is that it can't stop spells with "This spell can't be countered" (inherently, or acquired), triggered abilities, or activated abilities.
Sure it's free, but it's not a whole fulfillment of what the cards on this list need to do.
July 12, 2020 10:38 a.m. Edited.
Destroyander, I've retired my Group Hug list (for reasons seen here: https://twitter.com/Magical__Hacker/status/1281292373352493056) and replaced it with the list you see now!
July 11, 2020 11:50 p.m.
I haven't gotten a chance to test it out myself lol xD You've literally tested this deck out more than I have!!!
July 11, 2020 2:40 a.m.
Flooremoji, thank you for that feedback! I assumed Ad Naus did damage that Angel's Grace stopped, but now I've fixed it in the description. Let me know if that looks good now :)
July 7, 2020 9:55 a.m.
tugarec, good catch! I'll add it to the list. It's definitely a huge downside, but some decks might actually consistently win before they lose to it :)
July 6, 2020 5:57 p.m.
July 6, 2020 5:55 p.m.
NomadicJoe96, that aspect of Hunting Grounds isn't the real problem, it's more so that it gets you the creature from the hand as opposed to the library. Which means you have to keep drawing tons of cards for it to keep being free value. That would make Kaalia of the Vast go onto this list too, and so the question becomes if that deserves to be here, especially when Elvish Piper would be excluded for needing to have mana paid for each activation.
While Eternal Dominion doesn't specifically require extra mana, the fact that you can't cast spells anymore makes whether or not mana is required irrelevant because of just how huge a payment that really is. (Especially in commander where players are likely to play 3-4 things per turn and you're stuck just getting one.)
Regarding Flamerush Rider, I misread the card and didn't realize it exiled the creatures! Otherwise, Ilharg, the Raze-Boar would be on this list.
July 6, 2020 5:35 p.m.
Epidilius, I would disagree that Mana Crypt and Mana Vault "should" be on every ramp list, but for different reasons. Mana Crypt, when played in a regular deck, only results in an opponent losing more life, both from the inherent lifeloss ability and the response from opponents. Mana Crypt and Necropotence are the two cards I think of immediately when it comes to this type of effect. So while Mana Crypt definitely fulfills the role of ramp, the fact that it more often pushes decks towards losing rather than winning (in regular Commander, as my lists aren't designed to be used for cEDH) makes it excluded from the list.
On the other hand, Mana Vault doesn't actually ramp, it's more akin to a ritual. The fact that it doesn't untap itself means it's essentially a Dark Ritual for decks without black.
Regarding creatures, artifact wipes and MLD are nowhere near as common as creature-destroying wipes. That likelihood is a huge factor! Sword of Feast and Famine is not something that dies to a board wipe, whereas One with Nature does when the enchanted creature dies. The difference is that Sword of Feast and Famine can equip to any creature, and if that creature dies, you don't lose access to the card giving you the ramp (you only lose access to the ramp itself if you don't have any haste enablers). In my experience, those factors makes Sword of Feast and Famine a much more reliable source of ramp than Llanowar Elves.
Ultimately, my point is that these are all the ramp cards I would possibly recommend to someone. The other cards might as well not even exist.
arcane_trouper, you make a good point about life loss per mana made, but the difference between Mana Crypt and Carnival of Souls is that your multiple opponents are definitely likely to focus on making sure you don't win when you play a Mana Crypt than if you played a Carnival of Souls. They usually do that by attacking you for more damage and/or using spot removal/counterspells on your cards more often. That's why I found that Mana Crypt led to more losses than wins, and ultimately why it didn't fit on this list. That said, Carnival of Souls also needs to go!
Since you asked about my math, here it is: If the game ends on turn 10.29 (number from a recent video from Command Zone, which is very close to the number I got from analyzing the games present on my YouTube channel, where three opponents played whatever Commander decks and cards they want), then getting a Mana Crypt out on turn 1 gives you 9.29 flips. Each flip makes you lose an average of 1.5 life, so 9.29 multiplied by 1.5 is 13.935, and that divided by 40 is about 34.8%. Doing the same math for 8.29 and 7.29 (playing it on turn two or turn three, respectively) gives you the other two percentages.
progresso, actually, if you watch the video in the disclaimer, you'll see the mathematical reason why your statement is false.
Also, this should be pretty clear by now, this list is made up of cards I recommend for a specific result informed primarily by a mathematical approach at calculating the best tactical decisions and secondarily by comparing the results of employing tactical decisions in line with those calculations to the results of employing traditional strategy. That leaves no room for community consensus to override that research.
July 6, 2020 5:19 p.m.
arcane_trouper, I personally believe that, for almost every deck, card draw and ramp are the two categories that the deck will be better if it can do both consistently. With that framework in mind, it should be easier to see why these two categories are trying to be inherently protected from board wipes. However, we do see eye-to-eye in that temporary card draw is better than temporary ramp, so I've made an exception for creatures, but with a higher bar. Would you agree that it's also a good idea to make the standard for creatures higher than for noncreatures, since they are inherently more likely to get removed from a board wipe?
You're absolutely right on Ancestral Recall being much better than Dark Ritual, but Ancestral Recall wouldn't go on this list, it would go on MagicalHacker - List of All Burst Card Draw.
XaiLo, thank you for your suggestions, as it made me realize I forgot to add a parameter excluding cards that also give card draw to your opponents as well. This is why Heartwood Storyteller, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, and in a way Geier Reach Sanitarium wouldn't be good for the list. In reality, GRS is more like Bazaar of Baghdad that the problem is that they don't give you the type of card draw that this list is aiming for, which is card advantage card draw.
The last suggestion is Magus of the Library, which I used to try to add to a ton of my decks until I realized it only gives you card draw in the situations where you have a full hand (which is when card draw isn't as important for you to have). In that way, it only gives you card draw if you don't need card draw as much.
July 6, 2020 4:49 p.m.
arcane_trouper, good point. I will change that to "Superfriends"
June 30, 2020 5:29 p.m.
DarkMagician, make sure you use the description! It has all the infinite combos!
Chromium_Overseer, keep in mind I'm going for 2-card combos only :)
June 30, 2020 5:27 p.m.
Zeth4, those are prime examples of cards that fail under the last sentence of the first point under "what this list doesn't include": "In a similar vein, this list is also not including cards that cost 7 mana or more per creature recurred to the battlefield."
June 28, 2020 6:43 p.m.
You can find all 2-card infinite mana combos here: MagicalHacker - List of All 2-Card Infinite Combos
June 28, 2020 3:53 p.m.
arcane_trouper, looks great! I just updated the description to have a list there as well :)
June 27, 2020 7:44 p.m.
arcane_trouper, here's a list of all 65 infinite combos play in 1000 or more decks according to EDHREC that only use 2-cards. The first number is the minimum and the second number is the maximum, since EDHREC only gives percentages, not values, of the number of decks playing both those cards.
A 2-card infinite combo in exactly 1,000 decks is a combo found in less than 1 deck out of every 300, so I would say this is list is as exhaustive as is beneficial. :)
7273-7312 Deadeye Navigator + Peregrine Drake
6236-6273 Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond
4717-4786 Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker + Zealous Conscripts
4537-4552 The Gitrog Monster + Dakmor Salvage
3654-3721 Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth
3057-3088 Demonic Consultation + Thassa's Oracle
2966-3013 Demonic Consultation + Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
2937-2976 Niv-Mizzet, Parun + Curiosity
2644-2672 Mikaeus the Unhallowed + Triskelion
2433-2457 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind + Curiosity
2391-2429 Grand Architect + Pili-Pala
2344-2396 Demonic Consultation + Laboratory Maniac
2311-2354 Mindcrank + Bloodchief Ascension
2308-2321 Worldgorger Dragon + Animate Dead
2225-2259 Umbral Mantle + Priest of Titania
2120-2143 Niv-Mizzet, Parun + Ophidian Eye
2120-2138 Mindcrank + Duskmantle Guildmage
1994-2025 Godo, Bandit Warlord + Helm of the Host
1946-1968 Aurelia the Warleader + Helm of the Host
1835-1868 Dualcaster Mage + Twinflame
1794-1824 Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron
1786-1559 Worldgorger Dragon + Dance of the Dead
1706-1721 Traumatize + Fraying Sanity
1675-1702 Necrotic Ooze + Buried Alive
1665-1693 Exquisite Blood + Vizkopa Guildmage
1653-1671 Umbral Mantle + Elvish Archdruid
1593-1602 High Alert + Axebane Guardian
1530-1585 Combat Celebrant + Helm of the Host
1526-1537 Ad Nauseam + Angel's Grace
1510-1536 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind + Ophidian Eye
1504-1524 Traumatize + Keening Stone
1469-1497 Mindcrank + Syr Konrad the Grim
1450-1482 Eldrazi Displacer + Peregrine Drake
1417-1440 Staff of Domination + Priest of Titania
1385-1391 Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker + Felidar Guardian
1383-1397 Fleet Swallower + Fraying Sanity
1346-1369 Worldgorger Dragon + Necromancy
1299-1322 Aggravated Assault + Sword of Feast and Famine
1294-1309 Grim Monolith + Power Artifact
1286-1321 Reiterate + Mana Geyser
1266-1292 Umbral Mantle + Karametra's Acolyte
1262-1263 Heliod Sun-Crowned + Walking Ballista
1242-1247 Sage of Hours + Ezuri, Claw of Progress
1235-1267 Exquisite Blood + Cliffhaven Vampire
1234-1244 Time Sieve + Thopter Assembly
1218-1236 Fleet Swallower + Keening Stone
1217-1244 Necrotic Ooze + Entomb
1216-1229 Food Chain + Eternal Scourge
1204-1232 Aggravated Assault + Savage Ventmaw
1195-1254 Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker + Combat Celebrant
1195-1254 Combat Celebrant + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1177-1163 Najeela the Blade Blossom + Nature's Will
1159-1174 Basalt Monolith + Power Artifact
1153-1222 Aggravated Assault + Neheb the Eternal
1149-1161 Helm of Obedience + Rest in Peace
1139-1166 Exquisite Blood + Defiant Bloodlord
1112-1112 Niv-Mizzet, Parun + Tandem Lookout
1101-1113 Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker + Deceiver Exarch
1100-1105 Devoted Druid + Vizier of Remedies
1072-1102 Freed from the Real + Incubation Druid
1048-1104 Umbral Mantle + Marwyn the Nurturer
1034-885 Najeela the Blade Blossom + Cryptolith Rite
1014-1036 Splinter Twin + Zealous Conscripts
1002-1020 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind + Tandem Lookout
1002-1013 Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker + Pestermite
June 27, 2020 12:15 p.m.
June 26, 2020 12:18 p.m.
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Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 8 | 7 COMMENTS | 89 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS
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SCORE: 12 | 776 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS
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Commander / EDH
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SCORE 0 | COMMENTS 0 | VIEWS 139
|Playing since||New Phyrexia|
|Avg. deck rating||12.62|
|Favorite formats||Commander / EDH|
|Suppressed formats||Standard, Legacy, Pre-release, MTGO, Unformat, Heirloom, Vintage, Archenemy, Planechase, Vanguard, Modern, Pauper, Noble, Casual, Hero, Block Constructed, Limited, Duel Commander, Tiny Leaders, Highlander, Magic Duels, Penny Dreadful, Frontier, Leviathan, 1v1 Commander, Canadian Highlander, Brawl, Arena, Oathbreaker, Oldschool 93/94, Pioneer|
|Good Card Suggestions||185|
|Last activity||4 hours|