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|Champions of Kamigawa (CHK)||Rare|
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Dosan the Falling Leaf
Legendary Creature — Human Monk
Players can play spells only during their own turns.
Commander Recommendations Start Commander Deck
Latest as Commander
Dosan the Falling Leaf Discussion
23 hours ago
Linked here from the Facebook group and as this comment got longer, I figured I'd leave it here for easier parsing than on Facebook itself.
Okay, so taking a look at this, I notice one thing right off the bat: Your deck only has 7 or so ramp spells in it (I may have missed a couple).
Animar turns top decks into fuel if they're creatures, so it's the one time I would recommend not running mana rocks. I mean, you still can, but you should run a decent assortment of dorks that let you land Animar turn 2. You currently only run Birds of Paradise.
Llanowar Elves , Elvish Mystic , Fyndhorn Elves , etc., would be better than your mana rocks. I dropped Sol Ring entirely because it doesn't help Animar "go off" so to speak, since I always need colored, not colorless, mana.
Burnished Hart could easily be removed for one of the above- it takes 6 mana to get 1 land. Sure, you can play it for free, but the activation cost is still an issue. Rishkar, Peema Renegade (2 * +1/+1 counters on Animar for casting her, plus turn another thing into a dork is niiiiiice), etc., would be more beneficial for the mana spent and better utility overall.
Warstorm Surge, Primeval Bounty, etc., aren't necessary. Surge has both Purph and Ballista which outperform it during the combo with Ancestral Statue- 3 payload is a bit much since the deck is predicated on you obtaining 1 card (so you're running 3:1 payloads to combo pieces that let those payloads outright win). Animar just doesn't want to pay full retail cost for that effect when Ballista is free and Purph is R.
Vedalken Orrery is largely a do-nothing card. Casting at instant speed is fun but Animar doesn't have to- something that just outright makes your stuff uncounterable would be a better use of mana than Orrery if playing around counters, and if playing Orrery to be cute... Animar isn't cute. You can combo quick and dirty through things like Dosan the Falling Leaf and Gaea's Herald.
The Swords are oddly placed. 5 mana to get a limited effect isn't great when your Commander lends himself better to enabling sheninagans with Prime Speaker Vannifar , Tishana, Voice of Thunder , Brutalizer Exarch , Generous Patron , Imperial Recruiter , Beast Whisperer (you run Primordial Sage and Soul of the Harvest- Whisperer is a straight upgrade to one of those, but I run all 3), Wall of Blossoms , etc.. Rhystic Study wouldn't be out of place either. Most of the above when combined with Animar and Temur Sabertooth/Cloudstone Curio make a phenomenal draw engine to get you what you need.
So, to summarize everything up:
1x Elixir of Immortality 1x Gruul Signet 1x Izzet Signet 1x Sol Ring 1x Sword of Feast and Famine 1x Sword of Fire and Ice 1x Sword of the Animist 1x Vedalken Orrery 1x Primeval Bounty 1x Warstorm Surge 1x Burnished Hart
1x Llanowar Elves 1x Elvish Mystic 1x Fyndhorn Elves 1x Sakura-Tribe Elder 1x Wall of Roots 1x Rishkar, Peema Renegade 1x Beast Whisperer 1x Imperial Recruiter (or some other tutor, they help) 1x Rhystic Study or some other draw source 1x Vannifar, Tishana, some other draw source.
If you have issues with your spells getting countered, cut something for Gaea's Herald or Dosan the Falling Leaf , or both. You could probably cut 1 land and a fatty like Utvara Hellkite who take way too long to do anything on their own in order to fit these in.
There are a few random improvements that can be made, like changing Plaxcaster Frogling to Spellskite , or swapping Hoard-Smelter for Reclamation Sage , but that can be saved for another time. More ramp and more draw engines will definitely help more than anything else. I even run Trophy Mage to get Cloudstone Curio, but that's a jank play. Spellseeker to get Weird Harvest to get Ancestral Statue and Walking Ballista in the same turn is where it's at lol.
Anyway, this was a long, loooong comment, but I hope it helps you out, man.
2 days ago
I'd add Birds of Paradise . Although not a legendary creature, the color fixing and ramp make it great in most five color decks. Dosan the Falling Leaf , would also be good because you probably aren't casting many spells each turn and he will only hurt your opponents. Rings of Brighthearth and Illusionist's Bracers are both good for copying sisay's ability.
1 week ago
Nice! If you face a lot of blue control you could consider adding cards like Boseiju, Who Shelters All , Dosan the Falling Leaf or Vexing Shusher . My meta is quite light on blue or combo decks, so I haven’t had to add such cards yet. But I agree about the weaknesses you mention. Curious to see how your list will evolve. +1 from me ;).
4 weeks ago
Have you considered Magewright's Stone ? I'm also surprised by the lack of Instill Energy and similar effects, and I'd add them over some of the less good finishers you're running (such as Kindred Summons ). I'd personally run something like Natural Order to grab Craterhoof Behemoth if you really need to go off without Selvala...
I also really think you should go higher than 25 lands, doubly so without ramp like Chrome Mox , Mox Diamond , Mana Crypt , etc. Even with this many dorks, I wouldn't go below 29; you're liable to get VERY screwed over by any board wipe (or any method of harming dorks).
Finally, I'd run some things like City of Solitude / Dosan the Falling Leaf to protect from counterspells when you go off (since your opponents will also draw their decks as your combo goes, and you have almost no counter protection).
2 months ago
The art for Multani is great, I really like your build here. I really like the hatebear additions you have in here with Gaea's Herald & Dosan the Falling Leaf and may need to look into both of them for my Yisan build. I'm not sure if you even really need the Ghalta, some other cards I would suggest would be cards like Krosan Tusker and World Shaper
2 months ago
Like Sisay, but More Colors
Back in My Day They Were Just Creatures!
Those Who Forget History are Doomed to Lose to it.
RIP Kamigawa (Legend Tribal)
Saskia: the Stuff of Legends
Big Sassy's Legendary Horde (note: Big Sassy as a nickname for Saskia can be used in any of these names)
Legendary Night at Saskia's Bar
History Has its Eyes on You (it's a musical reference, if you don't get it)
That's all I got for names- this one was tough! Now, suggestions:
Adun Oakenshield is okay recursion, Anafenza, the Foremost is a good body, Captain Lannery Storm is good ramp, Dosan the Falling Leaf is good against control, Grand Warlord Radha is great ramp, Hua Tuo, Honored Physician is good recursion, Isamaru, Hound of Konda is a gud boi (and a one-drop), Kambal, Consul of Allocation is good taxation without representation, Karador, Ghost Chieftain is SICK and also very flavorfully appropriate for this deck, Kothophed, Soul Hoarder is great draw, Kytheon, Hero of Akros Flip is a good body, Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist is good protection, Ravos, Soultender is good recursion, Rhonas the Indomitable is good but you'll have to see if you like God-Eternal Rhonas better (I like OG Rhonas better unless your repeating God-Eternal's ETB), Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper is good block deterrence, one of the Tajics ( Tajic, Blade of the Legion or Tajic, Legion's Edge ), both are good bodies, Tana, the Bloodsower is good body + chump blockers, Tariel, Reckoner of Souls is good recursion, Varchild, Betrayer of Kjeldor is good fun, and Zurgo Helmsmasher is a surprisingly fun political piece.
Also, I'd really recommend you include planeswalkers, and also you're running two Selvalas and two Odrics.
2 months ago
Lastly because I'm lazy here's a bunch of cards that all would be very good in the deck as alternate win cons, protection, +1/+1 counter stuff, removal, or draw power
2 months ago
In EDH, when a player with a blue source and at least mana in other sources open on a field. It is a threat. It is a threat not because of a 7 mana spell, but a 2 mana spell, not a spell that deals damage, counters spell, destroys permanents, tutors, or cheats costs, but a bounce spell.
Cyclonic Rift , C-Rift, the big wave, whatever you call it, people know it as one of the strongest, most backbreaking spells in all of EDH, if not the best card in the format.
I am here to say that is isn't.
Part of my series on why other popular staples aren't good ( Phyrexian Arena , Rampant Growth ), or are simply not good in a specific way ( Rhystic Study ), I am not here to deny the power that a card like Cyclonic Rift has, but simply that it isn't a good enough card to warrant the hate or love that it receives.
Before I go over why it isn't good, I need to go over why at nearly every power level, it is good.
In casual EDH, the 50% or less, the Precons, the jank, lies it's the weakest state.
That is where all removal spells, sweepers, or countermagic is the weakest, especially bounce. If no one has threatening boards, why remove them. You'd rather spend 7 mana on a spell to improve yours most of the time, yet those games go long, the Cyclonic Rift acts as a Fog to save you, Sleep to get in for damage, or real removal if you use it on a player's end step if they have to discard just after.
Almost all cards that show heavy play at higher levels show some play at lower ones, and while the price-tag may limit it for most casual players, it does work.
At the 75% or the middle tiers of EDH, where I think EDH players mostly lie, it where it is the most powerful. IF it destroyed any number of target nonland permanents, it would be weaker, because of three reasons:
75% decks often use permanent-based engines to support their gameplan. Think Beast Whisperer along with a deck full of cheap elves, or Paradox Engine in a deck will a lot of Temple Bell effects and mana rocks.
These decks and their creators often expect opponents to remove threats, so have many threats to remove.
They try to protect against sweepers, the only punishing cards for going so wide, with anti-sweepers, think Heroic Intervention , or Boros Charm , and protect against some single-target removal with effects like Darksteel Plate .
Because of this, and because indestructible and hexproof don't protect against a mass bounce effect, along with Cyclonic Rift being the only mass bounce at instant speed that doesn't affect you at all, and doesn't target, it is truly the best anti-75% sweeper by many standards.
In the competitive setting, while not bad, it is mostly relegated to being a 2 mana Chain of Vapor or a Into the Roil that doesn't draw a card, that can let a combo deck get through stax locks once in a blue moon.
Don't get me wrong, being relegated to a slightly worse Chain of Vapor isn't an insult. Chain of Vapor is possible the best removal in cEDH, as decks like Kess consultation or P-Hulk variants Laboratory Maniac wins, and for 1 blue mana, or two in the case of Cyclonic Rift , you get to bounce their wincon as they draw off an empty deck, so they lose...
That is some powerful stuff.
So why isn't it the best EDH card, an efficient spell in nearly any metagame? 2 options for removal, one that crushes many lists and the other a sleek and useful trick?
Because it isn't hyper-efficient, nor is it unbeatable, nor is it irreplaceable.
To start, many cEDH decks that run it run consistent amounts of countermagic to protect it's possible great effect, and numerous cards could fit the spot. It isn't alone. Blink of an Eye , the second Into the Roil has been used over it in many combo lists that more mana-efficient options and many forget the slot all-together, in favor of a cantrip or other removal spell like Abrade or whatever. It isn't very dominant there, and so is easy to explain why it wouldn't be amazing there.
In casual lists, Cyclonic Rift costs about as much as half of many of the casual decks, or even more than some entire casual decks that I have seen. Bringing money-cards wins there, as would a Consecrated Sphinx that costs less money, and I'd wager would have more powerful an effect. Again, an easy argument, but I believe it works.
The really hard place to argue against Cyclonic Rift on the surface is the middle tiers. The 75% lists. Legitimately, I think it is because in the 75% players don't consistently a highly interactive 'metagame'. They just prefer to be interactive 'ingame'.
This comes down to theory, however, when a deck, for example, an elf list abusing the Llanowar Elves style effects along with untap effects to keep making mana, dumping it into something like Ezuri, Renegade Leader . All of that deck and many others get shut down by Null Rod . While that card may be less powerful than other cards against any random deck, as many players know exactly what decks they face, they can play to those decks.
This means general removal, like Anguished Unmaking may be worse if artifacts and walkers don't see much play, you'd rather Mortify . Or if instant speed doesn't help you much, as a lot of City of Solitude / Dosan the Falling Leaf effects exist in your meta, Vindicate , etc.
This is pretty basic knowledge, however, the point here is that there are many, many replacements for Cyclonic Rift in different metagames, and I want to share the ones, only in mono-blue, that in the 75% are why Cyclonic Rift is overrated.
This isn't to say it isn't the best, but that if many, many replacements cost way less $$$ and are occasionally better, that one card shouldn't be considered the best in every situation.
Aether Gale , sorcery, only hits six things, has to hit your things if you don't have enough targets of only your opponents, targets, etc. Yes, there are reasons this is clearly worse.
Why is it better? Politically, you don't have to hit cards from players you team with. Similarly, if you like the Howling Mine on someone's field, don't bounce it. Someone Banishing Light ed someone else's threat you can't deal with? Don't bounce it.
Also, 18 cents. Compared to ~20 dollars and I think it is a steal for budget lists.
Also, it is 2 mana cheaper, despite not being an occasional Disperse .
Evacuation , the downside is simple, it doesn't hit non-creatures, and bounces your own things.
The upsides are for decks that want their own things bounced. ETB effects like Mulldrifter (You can respond to the sacrifice on evoke if you want!), Archaeomancer (infinite sweepers by returning Evacuation , or just recur another card), Duplicant , Solemn Simulacrum , etc.
It is 5 mana too, still an instant, and is only 2-3 dollars right now.
Other options for this could be AEtherize , Whelming Wave , Inundate , Engulf the Shore , Profaner of the Dead , or Scourge of Fleets if you just want mass creature bounce, each with ups and downs, some that only hit opposing creatures, some that are instants, some with graveyard synergies, etc.
For mass nonland bounce that doesn't target? There are tons of options, plenty with lower mana costs than Cyclonic Rift .
Take Coastal Breach . It does a mass bounce for just 4 mana (with 3 opponents), leaving you enough to rebuild first, and being able to be cast much faster, making up slightly for the sorcery speed.
Or Crush of Tentacles , 6 mana? 5 mana and an 8/8, it needs to be in a deck with enough cheap drops to hit surge to be worth it, but an option.
Devastation Tide is a personal favorite, if you run Aminatou, Brainstorm , a lot of scry, Mystical Tutor , Long-Term Plans , Jace, the Mind Sculptor , or are lucky, it is a 2 mana bounce everything. Really strong, however, sorcery (unless you cast it with Miracle on an opponents turn.
Run really high mana cards? Displacement Wave can be better,
Like a big creature attached? Kederekt Leviathan . It even comboes with flicker effects, or can be repeated for 2 mana with an effect like Animate Dead or 3 mana at instant speed whenever with Necromancy in black/blue.
Only need to target one player for political reasons? River's Rebuke .
A lot of one color in the meta? Wash Out
Artifacts/Enchantments? Reduce to Dreams
Even outside of bounce effects, Ixidron can do work xD
Point is, there are options. Even outside of blue, sweepers that can get around the normal protection is seriously strong. Terminus , Hallowed Burial , along with most mass exile effects in white from Play of the Game to Final Judgement / Descend upon the Sinful to the new Urza's Ruinous Blast , etc. Mercilous Eviction in W/B, the -x/-x effects in black like Toxic Deluge or Black Sun's Zenith , etc. in any color, Perilous Vault exists.
These are half of why I think Cyclonic Rift is overrated. Not because it isn't great at what it does, but that it isn't that much better than the rest.
The other half is simple.
Every color (sorry colorless) has answers to Cyclonic Rift off the top of my head.
Black? Many lists abuse cards like Inquisition of Kozilek or other discard to remove powerful cards from opposing decks.
Green? Ugh... Yeah, I guess some colors don't have answers...
(Gutteral Response if they ever make hybrid legal in mono-colored xD)
That's all. Thoughts?
Dosan the Falling Leaf occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%