|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Planar Chaos (PLC)||Common|
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Choose one - Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library; or return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand; or target creature gains flying until end of turn.
Evolution Charm Discussion
3 months ago
got my hands on one of the mythic war of the sparks boxes...gonna slot in Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and maybe jtms.
sorry for the delay in primer update. I have lost the ability to manipulate tappedout at work anymore. will play around with slots and the primer tomorrow
3 months ago
Hey, why do you feel you need to play all low mana cards? More low mana cards than anything else is good deck building, but with Trostani you can take real advantage of some high mana creatures.
Armada Wurm for instance can gain you 10 life and puts a 5/5 Wurm token with trample on the battlefield to populate. It's 10 trampling power on the battlefield for six mana. Opponents need an answer for this. It's really the only budget big creature you need because of it's great interaction with Trostani.
Wayfaring Temple grows as you play more creatures and if he connects for combat damage to a player then you populate. Advent of the Wurm is instant 5/5 Wurm with trample good with populate. Trostani Discordant is an anthem for your other creatures and she creates two 2/2 Solider tokens with lifelink to populate. If any of your opponents steal your creatures, gain control of them, then she gives you back control of your creatures.
When casting a lot of low mana creatures then Beast Whisperer is good repeatable draw. Lifecrafter's Bestiary is other repeatable draw when you cast creatures and scry 1 at upkeep is very helpful. Dawn of Hope is repeatable draw when you gain life for the cost of mana. With Trosanti on the battlefield adding an extra two mana to creatures who ETB lets you draw a card. If life gain is what you're after Soul Warden , Essence Warden , Soul's Attendant are great because they care about any creature that ETB including all your opponents creatures. These cards are good with Dawn of Hope for draw.
If combat with weenie creatures is what you want to do then consider Dauntless Escort , Selfless Spirit , Dauntless Bodyguard and Unbreakable Formation ? These cards can protect your creatures from most board wipes and combat. Rancor is good with little creatures and trample for Phyrexian Processor tokens. Spirit Loop is a upgrade for Lifelink. These auras are nice because when the creature enchanted with one of them dies/exiled or an opponent destroys the aura then the aura goes back to your hand.
Swords to Plowshares , Selesnya Charm , Evolution Charm , Dawn Charm are low mana instants that are good in Commander. Charms give you options and when you can realistically only cast a card once then options are excellent.
TheFanatic on Grunn
4 months ago
Looks really fun! One thing I note with this list is that your land really count is really high given the amount of dorks and land ramp you have access to. I think that you can easily go down to 35, and probably even less. I'm also a little wary of how few ways there are to give Grunn some kind of evasion. Maybe something like Loxodon Warhammer is in order.
Some other suggestions for changes:
Worldly Tutor would be great if you get get your hands on one.
Heroic Intervention is worth thinking about since you are weak to board wipes.
Evolution Charm could provide some good utility.
Life from the Loam would be good, and could become great if you max out on cycling lands.
Karametra's Acolyte , Somberwald Sage , Boreal Druid , and Priest of Titania (!!) are all dorks I don't see here. Somberwald is probably the worst of those, and Priest is probably the best given your fairly high elf density. You may want to replace your worst 4-mana land ramp spells with these cheaper dorks.
I'm not sold on Unstable Obelisk , Moss Diamond , or Mind Stone here, since they don't play well with your landfall backup plan and they don't provide a body to attack/block with. You could probably replace them with some of the dorks I listed above.
World Breaker is reaaaaallllyyy slow, and you don't have a way to sacrifice it. It might be a good cut.
Ulvenwald Hydra might be too slow. You already have a million land search effects, so it feels unnecessary.
Wood Elves seems like it could be cut. It just doesn't seem great since you have no way to trigger the ability again.
6 months ago
Love the synergy between Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Phyrexian Hydra there. You seem pretty low on land though, especially with not having many manarocks or instants/sorceries with library searching like Cultivate . Your curve is pretty low, but even considering that I might recommend at least Evolution Charm for the versatility, but probably even others like Kodama's Reach or Lay of the Land . I do love all the proliferation, too. Even just a couple counters can add up to deadly with repeating effects like your contagion clasp/engine!
6 months ago
I was intrigued and looked for your list, but I didn't see it on TappedOut. We should compare, at the very least!
In any case, sorry it took so long to write this response. I wanted to try and break down what I think are your main points, and, well, I apologize if I misinterpreted you, but here's what I got out of your comment:
The way I read it, it looks like you're saying the deck needs to be slower. This reading is a little unfair on my part, possibly a little too overly hostile, but, I mean, I can't fathom a turn-six kill when I play a card like Peregrination on turn four. Like, that's just not going to happen. And if you're arguing that the deck becomes more able to grind, well, I have two problems with that:
First, I guess I don't know your meta entirely, but do non-optomized tables not just gun for Sasaya immediately? Like, even just reading what she does kind of sets off some alarm bells, doesn't it? I know everytime I play with somebody new, whenever I get to the "So if I have six Forests out, they all tap for six green" bit, the inevitable response is something akin to "Oh, that's not good." And then if the combo does work, all the more incentive to get targeted next game, or next week, or whenever I play the deck again. That's why I aim for speed above everything else, because if I don't, well, I just get run over.
Second, the methods you suggest of becoming more resilient don't really work? Like, yeah, Howling Mine has its uses, but I'd really rather not give my opponents more cards to beat me with, because I'm still the target. It's also why I'm skeptical of Oath of Druids . It's not that I probably won't get free stuff, it's that other people get free stuff first, and when Sasaya's on top of the hill -- a position the deck's going to be in until it's dead -- all that free stuff is headed right at me. I figure you disagree with me about this -- I mean, you did talk about how people want to deal with other people's threats -- but that really hasn't been my experience.
Incidentally, these are the reasons I cut utility lands as well. They do have a use. Of course they have a use. But that use is kind of marginal when just playing them makes the deck slower. If they were named "Forest" or "Snow-Covered Forest", we might be talking, but they're not. The only instance I can imagine where that wouldn't be the case is hitting one off of Oracle of Mul Daya , and that seems kind of marginal at best. I've mentioned this before, but sometimes I'm not even sure Scrying Sheets belongs in this deck.
But, speaking of Utility lands, let's talk Reliquary Tower . Or, I guess more specifically, "no max hand size" effects and why I think they're bad/overrated:
So the consensus as far as I understand it in "real EDH" (read: non-Sasaya) circles is that these cards (Reliquary Tower specifically, though I imagine Spellbook and Library of Leng have similar reasoning (at least Thought Vessel is a mana rock)) are kind of win-more. Like, there is definitely the feel-bad psychological effect of casting a big Blue Sun's Zenith , not finding an outlet for all those cards, and having to discard all the way back down to seven, effectively wasting all that mana, but if you think about it, at the end of the day you're still keeping seven really good cards. So that plus the fact that the graveyard is much more of a resource in EDH than almost anywhere else, and the "no max hand size" effect starts to lose its luster.
But let's talk about Sasaya specifically. As you mentioned, seven lands is a lot of hand space. Under normal circumstances, that means you'll only really have room for one payoff spell, so it better be a good one (put a pin in this idea, we'll come back to it in a bit). But there are alternatives. Last paragraph, I talked about the feel-bad of not getting to keep that big hand, but remember how that big hand happened in the first place: a Blue Sun's Zenith. More specific to my point: an instant.
Continuing this thought experiment a little further, let's ask why a player might cast a 7+ card draw spell in the first place. One might imagine that a player casts such a draw spell hoping for an effect that removes their hand limit, but that's not the only possibility. They could also be looking for a specific combo -- a way to end the game. Compare that to Sasaya's instant-speed land searchers (a special shout-out to Yavimaya Elder !). In Sasaya's case, the payoff effect we're looking for is already in the Command Zone.
In my opinion, therefore, the deck doesn't need its hand limit removed because there are enough effects that ignore that limitation, and cards like Expedition Map that can find these cards aren't actually that good.
But the "why" for that specific claim is a different topic entirely. Let's talk about it!
In your post, you mentioned that cards like Cultivate , Kodama's Reach , and Peregrination were all "ideal ramp spells" for a Sasaya player, as they also added a land to the hand, therefore ending up card-positive. Now, I already dismissed Peregrination out of hand for being too slow, but it's important to include it here as well because I feel it has the same other trappings that might encourage a Sasaya player to play these cards. In short, I posit that these cards are, in fact, card-neutral at best.
This applies to Renegade Map et al. as well, but I'm just going to focus on the sorceries just for simplicity's sake. Let's examine a typical goldfish turn. First, the draw step. Obviously, they're at plus one card. Then, the goldfish plays a land, removing a card, then playing a non-land, which is minus another. If that non-land is a Cultivate effect, that only adds one card back, which leaves the goldfish more or less where they started. Because ramp becomes negligible once Sasaya flips (while there is certainly a difference between, say, eightteen starting mana and twenty-eight, I find it's not enough to worry about, and the difference between twenty-eight and forty is even less), that means the goldfish is spending three mana on nothing much at all (as a sidenote, you might notice Nissa's Pilgrimage and Evolution Charm in the deck, which seem to contradict this point. However, both of these cards have occasional upside potential. It doesn't always happen (and, in Pilgrimage's case, certainly never on Turn 3), but circumstances for it do exist, so they keep their slots).
The solution some Sasaya players offer is to stop making land drops, but that seems so tempo-negative to me. I feel that, if I do continue making land-drops, eventually I'll be able to cast these giant threats without the help of Sasaya, and could easily win the game that way.
Lastly, before I get into specific cards, I wanted to talk about the ramp spells I do play. Namely Azusa, Lost but Seeking and similar effects. I already mentioned the speed aspect of my build, and these cards are a part of that. To be more specific, these cards are in the deck to turn cards like Chord of Calling and Citanul Flute into more ramp if necessary, which, when you're going for a Sasaya flip and a kill in the same turn, is worth having in the toolbox. But these cards also function as pseudo-alternate win-conditions. As I alluded to just a paragraph above, the only difference between tapping ten lands for a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and tapping one or two is how smug the caster gets to feel. But the caster still gets an eldrazi in either method, so I don't think the difference in smugness is very big.
So now we come back to that pin I made earlier. Let's talk card specifics. Now, I've tried to go through a lot of these already, sifting through to get at your main points, but there are some notable stragglers, so let's take a look:
Summer Bloom : I've tried it. The problem is, because it's a one-shot effect, it's way too dead pre-flip. Azusa and her kin are both tutorable and stick around, so they're just better.
Skyship Weatherlight : This and Book of Rass are my two favorite suggestions, and I definitely want to try playing around with them on paper instead of just theorycrafting. If there's anything you take from this too-long screed, I want to thank you for bringing these cards to my attention.
Goblin Cannon : This was suggested before and I didn't really dismiss it off-hand, though I did ask "What do I cut?" I didn't have a good answer, then, though maybe it's -1 Akroma's Memorial , Hydra Broodmaster , and Kamahl, Fist of Krosa for +1 Goblin Cannon , Book of Rass , and Skyship Weatherlight ? I'm still hesitant because Kamahl at least is fine pre-flip (Broodmaster is bad yes, but not terrible. At least, I think there's a difference there), not to mention in my meta, effects like Crawlspace and Ensnaring Bridge are less popular than Leyline of Sanctity or even Aegis of the Gods . I guess there I'll have to test and see. You're right, by the way, about Akroma's Memorial being pretty dead 99% of the time, but it's the best haste outlet, and specific kill's been good enough for me.
If I didn't mention a card here, it's because it obviously is different from either my strategy as I've listed in various places, or is implicitly against the deckbuilding philosophy of my particular list. Or maybe I missed it, and you can bring it up if/when you respond.
In any case, thanks for the comment, and keep fighting the mono-green combo fight!
6 months ago
More cards from other sets to consider:
6 months ago
My comment got deleted, so, I just wanted to say the deck needs better recursion, suggested Evolution Charm , and Card selection, suggested Incubation / Incongruity or Commune with Nature , if you already have them. I was also encouraging Kitchen Finks as at least a sideboard against burn aggro strategies like my own. Reckless Rakdos (Current) The recursion is good for Inquisition of Kozilek , Drill Bit , and on board removal, assuming you can't avoid it, which will occur sometimes.
6 months ago
My comment got deleted, so, I just wanted to say the deck needs better recursion, suggested Evolution Charm , and Card selection, suggested Incubation / Incongruity or Commune with Nature , if you already have them. I was also encouraging Kitchen Finks as at least a sideboard against burn/aggro strategies like my own. Reckless Rakdos (Current) The recursion is good for Inquisition of Kozilek , Drill Bit , and on board removal, assuming you can't avoid it, which will occur sometimes.
Evolution Charm occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%