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Put two target lands on top of their owner's library.
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Plow Under Discussion
3 days ago
Morning gents (and ladies!), I've been playing around with a mono-green ramp/land-destruction deck which I really love in concept, but can't seem to quite get optimized, so I figured I'd come to the experts...
This is the deck as it stands now:
- 3x Acidic Slime
- 4x Arbor Elf
- 3x Elvish Mystic
- 4x Eternal Witness
- 1x Hornet Queen
- 3x Sakura-Tribe Elder
- 2x Stampeding Serow
- 1x Cloudthresher
- 3x Beast Within
Apart from ramping up to destroy my opponent's land and then pounding on him, there is also a soft-lock win con using Eternal Witness, Stampeding Serow and Primal Command which comes up more than you'd think.
While I'm open to any thoughts or suggestions, the primary things I'm struggling with right now are twofold:
1) It never feels smooth. It always seems that I either end up with way too much ramp in my hand or none at all. Is that just bad luck up to this point? I replaced Plow Under, great as it is, with Beast Within to smooth out my mana curve a little.
2) I've got slots for two big creatures in this deck, preferably ones with utility that have effects when they come into play. Right now I'm using Cloudthresher and Hornet Queen - I figure that they give me a nice bit of flexibility and I can hunt for whichever I need in the moment, but they also don't synergize particularly well (not that they need to). I'm considering Thragtusk as well and I've been bouncing back and forth between the three for a while now. I'm also completely open to another option here that I might not have considered.
So far, this deck has been incredibly fun to play, but incredibly frustrating at times as well, and I'd really like to see if I can make it legitimately competitive. I've also considered a more control-tilted version of it, splashing blue for 4x Remand and 4x Mana Leak which synergizes well, but seems to leave me a little thin, trying to ramp OR land destruct OR counter, so for right now that's on the back burner.
1 month ago
- I think the biggest thing you could probably do to make the deck more reliable is to smooth your mana curve a little. For a deck without Bloodbraid Elf, I usually recommend ~13 3-drops, ~8 4-drops, ~3x 5-drops, and ~2 6-drops. I get it that the deck is built around Eternal Witness and Primal Command/Plow Under, so you may not want to mess with those numbers, but with 7x Plow effects, you're almost certainly going to get some in your opening hand, and that can be kind of rough. So maybe drop to 5x total (kind of replacing the "traditional" 5- and 6-drops slots)? That'll free up some room for the Blood Moons you have coming in.
- If you're not running 6-drops, you could probably get by with just a little less ramp. A "traditional" list is 10x dorks (Sprawls, Elves, and Birds) and 21-22 Lands, so I suspect you could go from 11x to 10x dorks, even with your 20 Lands.
- I'm not honestly sure what to do to improve the mana base. Wooded Foothills are of course a little pricey, but the ability to fetch exactly what we need is just SO nice. Pain lands like Karplusan Forest are a solid budget option as well.
- Stampeding Serow can be kind of painful unless you have a Witness on board ... turning them into Courser of Kruphix (great with Chandra) or Pulse of Murasa (for lifegain and a little more recursion) might be worthwhile.
Good luck (and good skill) with the build!
4 months ago
4 months ago
I think so too. Have you considered a single copy of Plow Under ? It messes up draws for two turns if opponent cant shuffle. It could be a card to play around with and you shouldnt really have trouble casting it by turn 4 either.
5 months ago
golf clap how can something so wrong be so right. +1 from me.
7 months ago
Actually, you have a lot of that reversed YamishiTheWickedOne. Ponza is one of Jund's absolute worst matchups. Jund doesn't like Blood Moon at all, and if it resolves against them they pretty much lose. An Obstinate Baloth in hand loves seeing a lily across the table, and even if jund bolts the turn 1 bird (they can't do much against a turn 1 sprawl which helps too), they often don't present enough pressure to catch up unless they have a pretty perfect hand. Chameleon Colossus is great against them, Thragtusk is a 2-for-1, Inferno Titan likes killing Bobs as well as their face, they can't touch Thrun, the Last Troll, and they'll almost never get double black to cast a lily later in the game if you destroy their basic black sources or blood moon them. I've tested against the 2 local Jund players at my LGS (who aren't bad players), and while they'll occasionally take a game here and there, I haven't lost a match against them yet.
However, Affinity is a very tough matchup. They don't care about blood moon since it doesn't keep them from casting their guys, and indestructible Darksteel Citadel is pretty good vs Stone Rain. They're faster than Ponza by far, which is why I dedicate a lot of SB hate against them. Ancient Grudge is good since it kills 2 artifacts for only one card early in the game at instant speed.
Burn is good or bad depending on how much lifegain makes it into your MD. Many lists run a single Primal Command in the main as well as more or less Thragtusks and Baloths. Your creatures are bigger than burn's, and your spells often cost more than 4, so you don't take much Eidolon of the Great Revel damage. If you run Courser of Kruphix, it can also pad your life total. If you don't draw any of those cards, burn can still win. Some lists also run a Wurmcoil Engine as yet another burn trump card that happens to be good against non-Path to Exile decks.
Aside from Affinity, Gifts Storm is a bad matchup. Ponza just doesn't interact with them enough other than trying to keep them off of lands. Some lists run Trinisphere in the SB just to help against that deck as well as hard control decks. Merfolk is another tough matchup since they can mess with your lands with Spreading Seas, causing your sprawls to fall off, Blood Moon is ineffective against them, and they have Aether Vial to get around your other LD spells. A quick Inferno Titan picking off their lords or a lucky Bonfire of the Damned is the only thing you can really do.
It's true that most versions of Tron are good matchups. I've had problems against blue tron variants, but those are fortunately not as popular right now and slamming blood moon slows them down regardless.
Ponza has never been all-in on the land destruction plan. You mostly just use it to slow down your opponent in order to get ahead with your large threats, which is why the deck was mostly built around Mwonvuli Acid-Moss and Blood Moon. There's a surprising amount of depth when it comes to customizing the deck for a perceived meta. I friend of mine who also plays this deck even runs Plow Under as a 2-of, although I prefer to focus more on efficient threats than on heavy LD. You really can customize it however you want, and make it as fun or as competitive as you'd like.
7 months ago
Great suggestions, and yes these are definitely worth looking into. I do like the funky interactions with Plow Under and Stunted Growth, but there are so many ETB abilities these days that I think those may end up empowering players. Hum of the Radix on the other hand will definitely go in. Want to take advantage running 0 artifacts.
7 months ago
maybe Hum of the Radix as you run 0 artifacts? Never had the privilege of playing the card but it might fit in a build like this.
Elven Warhounds a funky creature suggestion similar to the sorceries I just mentioned.