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City of Solitude
Players can play spells and activated abilities only during their own turns.
City of Solitude Discussion
5 hours ago
What do you usually tutor for with Defense of the Heart and how often do your opponent allow it to trigger?
1 week ago
+1 For one of the most refreshing and innovative decks I've come across on T/O.
It does take awhile to comprehend the set up and your game plan and I'm sure we've only grasp the tip of an iceberg, the mammoth mechanics and thought process that goes into conceptualizing this deck and play testing it.
I noticed the deck is light on protection package (as with many decks that devote majority of the resources to combo pieces), perhaps can consider some of these:
1) Grand Abolisher and City of Solitude - Act as a redundancy for Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir so you've a captive audience who can only watch you combo off without interrupting. City is a double edge sword though so probably only drop this the turn you want to combo off.
2) Energy Field - Hide behind this shield until your combo pieces are assembled. At worst, it helps eat up a removal which was original intended for your other combo pieces. You only have 17 Instants/Sorceries out of 100 cards so casting most of your cards (Permanents) won't blow this up.
I'm sure you've given much more thoughts for this deck as compared to me so my humble suggestions for your consideration. Hope this helps. Cheers!
2 weeks ago
I was intrigued and looked for your list, but I didn't see it on TappedOut. We should compare, at the very least!
In any case, sorry it took so long to write this response. I wanted to try and break down what I think are your main points, and, well, I apologize if I misinterpreted you, but here's what I got out of your comment:
The way I read it, it looks like you're saying the deck needs to be slower. This reading is a little unfair on my part, possibly a little too overly hostile, but, I mean, I can't fathom a turn-six kill when I play a card like Peregrination on turn four. Like, that's just not going to happen. And if you're arguing that the deck becomes more able to grind, well, I have two problems with that:
First, I guess I don't know your meta entirely, but do non-optomized tables not just gun for Sasaya immediately? Like, even just reading what she does kind of sets off some alarm bells, doesn't it? I know everytime I play with somebody new, whenever I get to the "So if I have six Forests out, they all tap for six green" bit, the inevitable response is something akin to "Oh, that's not good." And then if the combo does work, all the more incentive to get targeted next game, or next week, or whenever I play the deck again. That's why I aim for speed above everything else, because if I don't, well, I just get run over.
Second, the methods you suggest of becoming more resilient don't really work? Like, yeah, Howling Mine has its uses, but I'd really rather not give my opponents more cards to beat me with, because I'm still the target. It's also why I'm skeptical of Oath of Druids . It's not that I probably won't get free stuff, it's that other people get free stuff first, and when Sasaya's on top of the hill -- a position the deck's going to be in until it's dead -- all that free stuff is headed right at me. I figure you disagree with me about this -- I mean, you did talk about how people want to deal with other people's threats -- but that really hasn't been my experience.
Incidentally, these are the reasons I cut utility lands as well. They do have a use. Of course they have a use. But that use is kind of marginal when just playing them makes the deck slower. If they were named "Forest" or "Snow-Covered Forest", we might be talking, but they're not. The only instance I can imagine where that wouldn't be the case is hitting one off of Oracle of Mul Daya , and that seems kind of marginal at best. I've mentioned this before, but sometimes I'm not even sure Scrying Sheets belongs in this deck.
But, speaking of Utility lands, let's talk Reliquary Tower . Or, I guess more specifically, "no max hand size" effects and why I think they're bad/overrated:
So the consensus as far as I understand it in "real EDH" (read: non-Sasaya) circles is that these cards (Reliquary Tower specifically, though I imagine Spellbook and Library of Leng have similar reasoning (at least Thought Vessel is a mana rock)) are kind of win-more. Like, there is definitely the feel-bad psychological effect of casting a big Blue Sun's Zenith , not finding an outlet for all those cards, and having to discard all the way back down to seven, effectively wasting all that mana, but if you think about it, at the end of the day you're still keeping seven really good cards. So that plus the fact that the graveyard is much more of a resource in EDH than almost anywhere else, and the "no max hand size" effect starts to lose its luster.
But let's talk about Sasaya specifically. As you mentioned, seven lands is a lot of hand space. Under normal circumstances, that means you'll only really have room for one payoff spell, so it better be a good one (put a pin in this idea, we'll come back to it in a bit). But there are alternatives. Last paragraph, I talked about the feel-bad of not getting to keep that big hand, but remember how that big hand happened in the first place: a Blue Sun's Zenith. More specific to my point: an instant.
Continuing this thought experiment a little further, let's ask why a player might cast a 7+ card draw spell in the first place. One might imagine that a player casts such a draw spell hoping for an effect that removes their hand limit, but that's not the only possibility. They could also be looking for a specific combo -- a way to end the game. Compare that to Sasaya's instant-speed land searchers (a special shout-out to Yavimaya Elder !). In Sasaya's case, the payoff effect we're looking for is already in the Command Zone.
In my opinion, therefore, the deck doesn't need its hand limit removed because there are enough effects that ignore that limitation, and cards like Expedition Map that can find these cards aren't actually that good.
But the "why" for that specific claim is a different topic entirely. Let's talk about it!
In your post, you mentioned that cards like Cultivate , Kodama's Reach , and Peregrination were all "ideal ramp spells" for a Sasaya player, as they also added a land to the hand, therefore ending up card-positive. Now, I already dismissed Peregrination out of hand for being too slow, but it's important to include it here as well because I feel it has the same other trappings that might encourage a Sasaya player to play these cards. In short, I posit that these cards are, in fact, card-neutral at best.
This applies to Renegade Map et al. as well, but I'm just going to focus on the sorceries just for simplicity's sake. Let's examine a typical goldfish turn. First, the draw step. Obviously, they're at plus one card. Then, the goldfish plays a land, removing a card, then playing a non-land, which is minus another. If that non-land is a Cultivate effect, that only adds one card back, which leaves the goldfish more or less where they started. Because ramp becomes negligible once Sasaya flips (while there is certainly a difference between, say, eightteen starting mana and twenty-eight, I find it's not enough to worry about, and the difference between twenty-eight and forty is even less), that means the goldfish is spending three mana on nothing much at all (as a sidenote, you might notice Nissa's Pilgrimage and Evolution Charm in the deck, which seem to contradict this point. However, both of these cards have occasional upside potential. It doesn't always happen (and, in Pilgrimage's case, certainly never on Turn 3), but circumstances for it do exist, so they keep their slots).
The solution some Sasaya players offer is to stop making land drops, but that seems so tempo-negative to me. I feel that, if I do continue making land-drops, eventually I'll be able to cast these giant threats without the help of Sasaya, and could easily win the game that way.
Lastly, before I get into specific cards, I wanted to talk about the ramp spells I do play. Namely Azusa, Lost but Seeking and similar effects. I already mentioned the speed aspect of my build, and these cards are a part of that. To be more specific, these cards are in the deck to turn cards like Chord of Calling and Citanul Flute into more ramp if necessary, which, when you're going for a Sasaya flip and a kill in the same turn, is worth having in the toolbox. But these cards also function as pseudo-alternate win-conditions. As I alluded to just a paragraph above, the only difference between tapping ten lands for a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and tapping one or two is how smug the caster gets to feel. But the caster still gets an eldrazi in either method, so I don't think the difference in smugness is very big.
So now we come back to that pin I made earlier. Let's talk card specifics. Now, I've tried to go through a lot of these already, sifting through to get at your main points, but there are some notable stragglers, so let's take a look:
Summer Bloom : I've tried it. The problem is, because it's a one-shot effect, it's way too dead pre-flip. Azusa and her kin are both tutorable and stick around, so they're just better.
Skyship Weatherlight : This and Book of Rass are my two favorite suggestions, and I definitely want to try playing around with them on paper instead of just theorycrafting. If there's anything you take from this too-long screed, I want to thank you for bringing these cards to my attention.
Goblin Cannon : This was suggested before and I didn't really dismiss it off-hand, though I did ask "What do I cut?" I didn't have a good answer, then, though maybe it's -1 Akroma's Memorial , Hydra Broodmaster , and Kamahl, Fist of Krosa for +1 Goblin Cannon , Book of Rass , and Skyship Weatherlight ? I'm still hesitant because Kamahl at least is fine pre-flip (Broodmaster is bad yes, but not terrible. At least, I think there's a difference there), not to mention in my meta, effects like Crawlspace and Ensnaring Bridge are less popular than Leyline of Sanctity or even Aegis of the Gods . I guess there I'll have to test and see. You're right, by the way, about Akroma's Memorial being pretty dead 99% of the time, but it's the best haste outlet, and specific kill's been good enough for me.
If I didn't mention a card here, it's because it obviously is different from either my strategy as I've listed in various places, or is implicitly against the deckbuilding philosophy of my particular list. Or maybe I missed it, and you can bring it up if/when you respond.
In any case, thanks for the comment, and keep fighting the mono-green combo fight!
3 weeks ago
Always nice to find another Sasaya player! This deck is a hard nut to crack but I think you are on the absolute right track. I will try to share what works for me. As you surely know the deck plays vastly differently with and without a fliped Sasaya, so I will give you my thoughts for each part, as well as a few general things I found useful.
Pre-flip: This is the part where every mana spent counts. Spells you want to cast here should be as cheap as possible and make flipping easier. It seems kinda obvious but: to have 7 lands in hand, you have to have at least 7 cards in hand! Keeping your card count high while playing spells and lands is key for a fast flip. Continuous card draw like Howling Mine works great for this, top deck manipulation with Sensei's Divining Top is also nice. Spells like Gatecreeper Vine are essentially a land in your hand while providing a blocker too. Ramunap Excavator and Crucible of Worlds let you play fetch lands or cycle lands from your graveyard keeping your stock in hand high. For that same reason Cultivate , Kodama's Reach , Peregrination and Khalni Gem are the best ramp spells you can get. Renegade Map , Traveler's Amulet and Wanderer's Twig push you over the threshold right before the turn you need it. Yes, they erode your hand size at first but that's right when Gaea's Bounty and the likes come in.
Post-flip: Great, you got 7 lands in hand and can flip! But what else? City of Solitude would be another Dosan to protect you, but the real problem is finding a payoff card in a deck that is almost 70% setup. As you already play the Portal and the Ring, I guess you'll like Skyship Weatherlight too. You'll run out of life before you run out of mana with Book of Rass . Personally I prefer cards I can play pre-flip and can activate post-flip. Domesticated Hydra or Unyaro Bees look stupid when you play them, but finish off the most dangerous opponent quickly. Temur Sabertooth can be used in too many ways to count. Polukranos, World Eater is a boardwipe (together with Khamal, a landwipe too) and finishes off whoever can't play a blocker fast enough. Realm Seekers are huge or can get a new set of lands, in case someone removes Sasaya.
My personal favorite: Oath of Druids ! You wouldn't think it works, but it simply does. It is a fast way to find Life, hitting a payoff creature means you don't have to cast it and the overall confusion when something big jumps out of another deck is a great distraction. Everytime I play it, the game is a blast!
General thoughts: A few things, that come to mind, because they work for me. Please see this as constructive critique you can ignore too, if you think your deck works for you. Because every extra land drop lowers your card count I really don't like additional land drops. While they are great for ramping pre-flip, they postpone the flip and become almost negligible post-flip. Essentially they are rituals and I only consider Summer Bloom worth the slot. I see you don't play any utility lands, but I think Glacial Chasm is just too good to pass up. While we're on the topic of utility lands, I really think you should reconsider on playing cards that give no maximum hand size too. To reiterate: you can only reveal 7 lands if you have at least 7 cards in hand. Having the leeway of more cards beside your lands is what makes the effect a must have in my opinion. Library of Leng and Thought Vessel are worth their slots for me, next to the Tower. You not playing this effect creates a spiral: you still have to get up to 7 lands but you can never not consider what to do at your cleanup, suddenly searching for multiple lands becomes worse, then you have less food for spell mastery or delirium. Everything together is costing you at least 1 turn pre-flip. Especially if you chose not to play "no maximum hand size"-cards, but also in general, playing lands from your graveyard is always a good way to preserve your hand size. You state the the wave chain as your best win condition and you are absolutely right, it is the best. Still I don't like the Memorial just for how useless it is pre-flip. Let's be honest if the first Wave hits an E-Wit, you can Wave for the whole deck. What you win the game with in the end doesn't really matter. I like Goblin Canon because it can still work pre-flip in a pinch and still works in the wave.
Too many cards to suggest but I hope there are some cards you want to try out. If you have questions I'll gladly follow up. Cheers!
3 weeks ago
Hey, sorry for the late response! I don't check TappedOut that often and was generally busy.
Just a very short explanation of some cards I'd cut:
Mox Amber Practically only good if you play your commander.
City of Solitude There's a bit too many of this same effect, you don't always need it.
Mass Hysteria Giving your opponent's creatures haste is a bigger downside than you'd expect.
Wheel of Fate Usually not needed during cascade turns, really bad outside of it.
Exploration Not a bad card, but not the best with just 28 lands.
Cephalid Coliseum Paying one life every time is a high cost, that's a few less cards with ad naus.
Red rituals in general. These are usually just relevant for casting generic costing spells. Blue/black is way more important.
You could also do with a little less artifacts, you get completely blown out by artifact hate.
Cards I'd consider:
Ad Nauseam It's in your maybe board and you should 100% play it. It's the best card in combo/storm decks.
Mystic Remora Also one of the best cEDH cards generally.
Carpet of Flowers If people you usually play with play blue (likely) then this card is a better, recurring dark ritual.
Bonus Round A wincon on it's own, especially with cards that untap such as frantic search and...
Snap Good removal that's usually free but gains mana with bonus round or cards such as...
High Tide This is incredibly good, but if you're going this route you should probably consider adding a few more islands.
Dark Petition A second copy of demonic tutor which becomes mana positive with bonus round.
Baral, Chief of Compliance Good with your creature synergies and is a cost reduction.
Mnemonic Betrayal Kind of meta dependant, take this with a grain of salt but I'd suggest you'd at least test it a few times.
Future Sight It's a combo with helm of awakening and sensei's top. I personally don't like this combo, but you still play helm.
For the rest you should just test what works for you and what works in your meta. Hopefully this helps some, feel free to send me a message again, I'll try to respond more quickly this time ;).
1 month ago
n0bunga also, I am glad we got that all cleared up. It is a powerful effect on a land, but doesn't have good utility outside of some 1-4 decks, of which Gitrog is the tier 1 list that can use it, Prossh at tier 2, and Muldrotha/Windgrace at tier 3. That is about it that I could argue should run the Beacon, and Prossh runs it as a flex slot. Soren841 just has a different definition of 'good' or 'bad' cards than you. I don't know I am comfortable defining those terms at all.
I think a card like Dosan the Falling Leaf is good, but it is a worse Grand Abolisher in a color with all-stars like Autumn's Veil or the super-interesting rules-implications of City of Solitude , but in Sisay it can be a great fetchable target. Same in Prime Speaker Vannifar or even some Yisan lists, while many don't run it due to it's reliance on instant-speed interaction, despite most being ability based.
But, with such few inclusions, is it a bad card? It isn't a staple, but because of its use at all in cEDH, in comparison to cards like Lava Spike , staples in formats like modern, I could easily argue it to be a good EDH card. Command Beacon I find falls into the category of Dosan, not a staple, useful in a few decks in EDH, but not at all in other formats, for more obvious reasons nonetheless.
I think this makes it pretty meh, but a card that should always be kept in mind for land-based EDH decks and decks that plan to recast commanders.
1 month ago
Seeing as the plan of the deck seems to be: Play commander; win, I would suggest preventing opponent interaction. City of Solitude stops all interaction on your turn and can be easily chained into your commander or cast on the same turn. Hall of Gemstone has a similar effect but requires you to have a mana dork or rock that can produce ideally.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard plays a very similar game with the some of the same cards. Look at some of the competitive Yisan decks for inclusions in his chains to go infinite and win. You already have some similar cards like Scrib Ranger and Quirion Ranger so including the few others like Wirewood Symbiote and Temur Sabertooth wouldn't hurt the deck all that much and still synergize. Also a favourite for both of those decks is Instill Energy for 1 mana haste and a free untap each turn.
If you want this deck to be more competitive I suggest adding ways to accumulate mana faster starting turn 1-2: Carpet of Flowers, Burgeoning, Exploration, Priest of Titania, and Gaea's Touch all satisfy that.
You also have no plan B. If your opponent casts Nevermore, Pithing Needle, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Revoker on Primespeaker and you don't have an answer you're a sitting duck. Birthing Pod should be included for consistency as well as some ways of tutoring out answers: Worldly Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Spellseeker, Chord of Calling, etc.
1 month ago
City of Solitude occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%