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|Want (5)||blindabe , wkli6 , Lovet0209 , Hollowdude711 , Wizzed_Soup|
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Gamble occurrence in decks from the last year
Latest Decks as Commander
3 days ago
Well it could use some things, a Silence or a Gamble and some other stuff but its fine it plays well enough. The curve is a lot lower than it used to be and it tries to win all at once instead of incrementally.
5 days ago
I meant Gamble in the bottom part of my most-recent comment, not Steelshaper's Gift. The gifts are worth keeping, but I think you could replace the potential for having to discard your library pick with just feeding more card draw into the deck.
I'm not sure why those two cards got switched in my head while typing it up, but it won't let me edit the comment anymore.
1 week ago
Red carries White in RW EDH decks with cards like Dockside Extortionist, Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast, Deflecting Swat, Gamble, Faithless Looting, Captain Lannery Storm, 6 of the 10 playable rituals, Wheel of Fortune, Wheel of Misfortune, Reforge the Soul . . . Red, in more tuned EDH, shifts from the aggro role it has in other formats to a color that wants to dump its hand to generate advantage and then cast a wheel effect to go back to 7.
If you get into cEDH, red is the color that drops Mana Crypt into Simian Spirit Guide and Rite of Flame to cast Fellwar Stone and then Wheel of Misfortune, meaning they ended net -1 cards to get a land, a crypt and a rock out. Starting t2 with 5 mana and a full hand is pretty good.
So the cards red/white gets from white are the generic support cards and a couple high-power tutors that Red misses. Cause who wants to play Deafening Silence when your whole strategy is 'cast your hand'? RW isn't bad in EDH, but it is pretty much just R+.
2 weeks ago
I did quite a bit of playtesting, was very happy with Flux Channeler, I'm really thinking hard on adding into my deck. With Mizzix of the Izmagnus in play, a Gamble for a Reiterate (or Electrodominance) get you 2 Experience and then I cast Electrodominance for (+ 2 Experience) gets you to 4 Experience then Reiterate for (+4 Experience). Initiating off a Desperate Ritual or something same result. So a win-con (assuming you have already Drawn/Muddle the Mixture/Spellseeker/Mystical Tutor the Electrodominance).
The lands were a little bit lean, but I think it's because your still 15 cards over, so skewing the testing a little bit.
You could cut Dualcaster Mage / Twinflame / Imperial Recruiter / Vedalken AEthermage since you have Bonus Round combos as a secondary win-con. (Primary being Reiterate + Electrodominance or Turnabout/Finisher).
Also have Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter too. Could add a Runic Repetition combo line too since you already have Mystic Retrieval so only 1 card). I like enjoy the Dualcaster Mage line though because it's only with 1 Experience and a Mizzix of the Izmagnus to copy.
After I got my Intuition from boxing day sale I put Enter the Infinite in my deck, I personally didn't like it, so I took it back out lol, but I get why it's in there! Instead I'm using these tutor win-lines with Intuition: Firemind's Foresight + Past in Flames + Mizzix's Mastery or Turnabout + Past in Flames + Mystical TutorReiterate. I almost feel like Enter the Infinite need a Show and Tell/Omniscience lol, but can't tutor that Omniscience (similar to the Aetherflux Reservoir)
Fork pretty expensive compared to the other copies, could cut that if you don't have one for budget, and too many copy spells, BUT... a Ral, Storm Conduit + any two copy spells is a win, I respect that line too!
Trim 1 of the protection boots (not Lightning Greaves) maybe, you wouldn't want to accidently ever draw 2 and like devastating if you draw all 3. Hexproof > Shroud but Attach > Equip, situational call, would use both in the appropriate situation, like in response to removal Attach is key, especially if you can stack multiple attaches like Equip, opponent responds with removal, in response Attach as a game example.
Your pretty close, couple more cuts and your there. Im still testing T6-8, I had a T4 win with your deck playtesting. I had thought of a T1 and was going to add to my primer when I got to a PC, then I forgot it lol, have to think what it was, I know we have T1 potential.
3 weeks ago
Decks coming together, did a play test, had an opening Gamble and Dualcaster Mage but not Twinflame to tutor! I think without a Twinflame and Riptide Laboratory which means Dockside Extortionist I wouldn’t run Dualcaster Mage, Fork would likely give you more utility.
I see you’ve decided to go with Intuition, I finally got one!! Last day of Boxing Day sale and came in stock $137 (Canadian $’s = $100 USD), and Enter the Infinite / Mizzix's Mastery / Past in Flames. What I don’t see if the Faithless Looting (if they give you Enter the Infinite) to Past in Flames and then Intuition for Faithless Looting to discard Enter the Infinite then Mizzix's Mastery. I guess you could Pull from Tomorrow for 0 if you had to with some mana ramp spells!
I got advice on discord about Thassa's Oracle the argument was that once you’ve drawn you deck it’s already a win, don’t need the fish at that point, it’s not like we are fish/consul or fish/pact, there is a blue enchantment (name escapes me) for 0 can exile your whole library that would be an argument, but that card awful prevents 1 damage or something. Anyways, the argument is, why not just Underworld Breach that way Frantic Search + Reiterate is same as Stroke of Genius. And breach is just good.
I can’t remember all the Ral, Storm Conduit interactions I would double check Commander Spellbook, my guess you have the good ones based on the list.
Not a fan of Jaya's Immolating Inferno Mizz doesn’t have the supporting creatures, could be dead in hand for long stretches and early game.
Looking good, some expensive cards in there though!
Just notified me you posted a message too, I’ll read through that in the morning.
1 month ago
Skullclamp. Lets work through this more. The whole point of our deck is to maximize turns Omnath, Locus of Rage is in play and the landfall triggers we give him to make elementals. Saying those are requirements for Skullclamp are silly because we're doing that regardless of what we draw every game. The question is how much of the time will we be drawing a sac outlet to fuel Skullclamp? Well actually sac outlets are a huge component of our win-con because we often rely on our elementals dying to win. Key word dying. Doesn't matter whether it's to a sac outlet, board wipe like Blasphemous Act, combat, or removing our general. You can put Skullclamp on an elemental to dissuade attackers or blockers, or on Omnath, Locus of Rage to dissuade removal. And that's without a sac outlet. Realistically, with or without Skullclamp, if you aren't drawing into a sac outlet on average, you aren't running enough outlets! And after 1 proc you've already exceeded the cost of the single card that it is. The rest is bonus, and a steep potential for bonus that is, not to mention minimal CMC investment. And if more card draw is what you're looking for to justify cards like Gamble, then this card is even better than what it is alone. I also like Life's Legacy and Kavu Lair. I think draw is a really competitive component of any deck. If we're even asking ourselves if the deck has enough draw to support cards like Gamble, why not add more and start criticizing the cards we draw more than the draw engines themselves?
Perilous Forays. I value this card at its CMC because it's aggressive. Burn as an archetype is inherently aggressive, wouldn't you agree? If you draw it early then you have basics to burn for damage. If you draw it late with few basics left to tutor, then that means you've probably had quite a successful game already - aka you should be happy you've gotten this far! Look at Perilous Forays like insurance to the late game. And we all know what happens in late game - looking for hits like Greater Good to look for win-cons like Warstorm Surge. We love to see it!
Mana Vault. Another card you love to see early. Different from the previous example, you gain mana the first time you play Mana Vault, so I'm not sure why you'd be disappointed? Maybe it's that you wished you drew a different card because OM_RATH doesn't have the best card draw? I haven't tested as much, but similar mentality for me.
Zuran Orb. This one is a little bit of a meme, but I've been toying with the idea and I'd like to throw it out and see what happens. If you draw Zuran Orb and a sac outlet, similar to our Skullclamp example, you can tutor up World Shaper and sac all your lands in response to World Shaper trigger for a nutty turn. It's jank, but really think about it!!! :D
Strip Mine. Compare this to the Skullclamp example where for Skullclamp to truly activate you need a sac outlet. One difference in this juxtaposition is that now you need two things: extra land drops and graveyard recursion. Now assume we get them. Using Strip Mine is very different tempo wise in multiplayer commander than it would be in a 1v1 format. Say it's a 4 person CMD game. To get a tempo ahead you'd either have to play 1 land or destroy 3, one of each opponent's on average. I get that Strip Mine can destroy key lands like Cavern of Souls, but are we a policing deck or a deck that wants to play 1000 elementals and say try policing this? Ever since we cut Tempt with Discovery I think Strip Mine got a lot weaker for us. Temple of the False God was a thought, but I agree with you it's not great. Do you have any better ideas, even if it's adding a basic mountain back?
Sylvan Safekeeper. The difference between Sylvan Safekeeper and Strip Mine is that our opponents' removal spells will be more limited their lands. Trading one of our lands for a removal spell will be more valuable than trading land for land. I'm not saying that we should carelessly play Sylvan Safekeeper and sac all our lands, but we can tutor when we have a good foundation and we'll be fine.
Steely Resolve. It is a great card, better than Sylvan Safekeeper when it is in play, but it can't be tutored. What if we had a card that draws us cards in its place? That way we are drawing into more ways to ramp to keep up land production. This would be helpful if we'd like to rely more on Sylvan Safekeeper for protection which is more practical. Practical meaning that we have 3 tutors and a Sylvan Safekeeper meaning that we have up to 4 copies if we want. And this way we won't have to worry about drawing both Steely Resolve and Sylvan Safekeeper in the same game which is redundant. To be clear I respect the power of Steely Resolve, I'm just proposing a way we can justify filling its slot.
1 month ago
Hi BenWin, a bit of a long reply, apologies if I ramble. Guerte has hit the nail on the head with Burgeoning, not only do we need lands in hand we also need our opponents to be playing lands and for a large number of decks our opponents are playing typically run very few lands so that it is almost never provides value outside of the opening hand and even in the opening hand you need to make sure you have a card draw spell to refill or else you are instantly in top deck mode turn 1 or 2, not great.
Skullclamp I understand your point here, it is a highly efficient card and it might well be worth running. It is likely to be removed on sight but maybe better this than one of our enchantments etc. Maybe worth testing but I am still leaning towards this not really fitting in with our game plan. It is another piece to have onboard for it to be of value. What I mean by this is that we need a creature preferrably a elemental token so we would need Omnath, Locus of Rage + Skullclamp + a sac outlet + a land in hand or a landfall trigger. It isn't Greater Good or Valakut Exploration which generate a value with fewer pieces required.
Force of Vigor I am a champion of, we agree, this should be an auto include in almost all green decks. The Omrath iteraltion of this deck runs very little spot removal which meta dependent is not the best approach, however, what it lacks in interaction it gains in efficiency, synergy and power. Run Force of Vigor folks.
Gamble This is an interesting one and one I am surprised to say I haven't tested thoroughly. Let me explain why. The card as powerful as it is and a tutor that Gruul in great need of also suffers significantly when we have very few cards in hand which for the most part Omrath does. If we can consistently have a full grip then I think this card is an auto include but I am sure we can all agree that Omnath very rarely is in that position and if we are then we are likely already winning, ie, we have just played a big Shamanic Revelation or Rishkar's Expertise or have Greater Good in play with a decent number of elementals. I don't think I will be running Gamble until we consistently have more cards in hand.
Altar of Dementia I think it is fair to aliken it too much to Ashnod's Altar as although they are both colourless enchantments Ashnod's Altar also produces mana. It turns each Field of the Dead trigger into a painless Ancient Tomb which is great for recasting Omnath, Locus of Rage or setting up for one of our high cmc spells. Your point about self mill is interesting and does generate another potential line for use albeit risky as we run very little non land recursion. with only Eternal Witness and Bala Ged Recovery Flip available ever since we cut Greenwarden of Murasa. Milling our opponents out late could be a option but we'd need at least one of our doubling effects to have enough power onboard to eat through that many cards. I won't be running this card.
Sensei's Divining Top also won't be making the cut. Like I mentioned in my previous post I just think I would rather have other cards. If you are playing a slower plan with more interaction and maybe a bunch of stax pieces I can see this potentially being valuable. I just don't think Omrath is a deck for utility artifacts, we're too busy trying to play lands and cards that actively close the game rather than durdle.
Perilous Forays I cannot get behind. As mentioned previously it is a high cmc sac outlet and more importantly by the time I find myself playing I have very few basics left or at least not enough to be meaningful damage.Blasphemous Act is almost always a very cheap board wipe and I for one would not consider switching these, but whatever works for your meta.
Sylvan Scrying is very meta and budget dependent, you are correct that if you need to get a Cavern of Souls, Boseiju, Who Shelters All or Gaea's Cradle then this card is great, however, it would be greater if it put the card into play like Crop Rotation. Play if it makes sense, I would also advocate this over Rampant Growth as although Rampant Growth puts a land into play, it comes in tapped and is a basic. I don't think Rampant Growth should be in any serious Omrath deck especially not Three Visits is affordable, if it still is, switch it for Sylvan Scrying.
Temple of the False God I think is a budget card and something I removed from the deck years ago. If it is the opening hand it is generally fairly bad. We cannot fetch for it, this is pretty significant as we only run a few utility lands and non of these have particular downsides/restrictions. I would suggest thinking it this way, in which situation would you use Crop Rotation to get this card? I don't think I would every choose this over one of our arguably higher powered utility lands. Just not for me. If you are on a budget and can't get an Ancient Tomb, Gaea's Cradle, Cavern of Souls etc then go for it. We only run 8 utility lands all of which are more powerful effects. Regarding Strip Mine, have you ever had multi landfalls + Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine? this is only anti tempo for our opponent's. Also being able to remove some elses Gaea's Cradle or table a multi coloured deck off a colour early game is exactly why Strip Mine is powerful. I would take another look at how and when you are using it. Yes there are games when it does nothing but some times you need to get rid of a pesky Cavern of Souls so the blue player can counter etc.
Steely Resolve in my opinion should not be cut. I am very much against this as games I have played this card I have almost always won. If it eats a remove spell then that is one less that will be targeting Omnath, Locus of Rage or Ancient Greenwarden. Sylvan Safekeeper is great but if you have issue with anti tempo as you mentioned with Strip Mine then you surely don't like Sylvan Safekeeper?
Just my humble take on those cards. If you want to run them do, have fun with the deck, test things out and see how they feel for you.
1 month ago
Thank you _Arra_ and VexenX for the detailed replies, and anyone else I might be forgetting. You guys never let me down! I would like to quickly mention that I agree with both of your takes on infinite combos, and I too am not aiming to build that type of deck here.
What I may have been poorly communicating in previous posts is that if our current primary win-con of OM_RATH is burn, I think we could benefit from lowering CMC. My understanding is that burn works best when we're pressuring opponents as quickly as possible, which means sometimes less CMC can be more effective!
I'd like to continue the discussion on a few cards, and bring up some new ones too:
Burgeoning - To generalize the comments I've seen about this card, it seems to shine in the right opening hand, but lose it's consistency quickly. Could we agree that if OM_RATH had more consistent draw, especially early-mid, then Burgeoning could be a reconsideration?
Skullclamp - The cheap draw this offers is absolutely nuts. Pay 1 for 2 cards before sacing to an outlet. But we can increase the value of drawing cards by lowering average CMC. Like setting up a well greased engine. Maybe it's just me but I think setting up an engine for burn seems like a great idea. Same idea with Life's Legacy and even Kavu Lair.
Force of Vigor - I still think it's silly to not include this. The extra slot it takes up doesn't sting as bad if you add more draw.
Gamble - Early game you could search something like Oracle of Mul Daya and mid-late you could get a Greater Good. It even serves as a creature tutor for Sylvan Safekeeper. It also gets better as we add more draw and consistency. Isn't this nuts?
Sensei's Divining Top - Great for any opening hand that lacks a 2 or 3 CMC ramp spell, increasing early game consistency. I don't think it slows us down because it allows us to curve out better each turn given a less than ideal hand. Different from other decks, we often have a land to spare because of the ramp, and what a good way to grease an engine!
Perilous Forays - If I'm getting this right, people are complaining about the high CMC. You're not wrong that some CMC cuts could help. In fact, more cuts to CMC improves Perilous Forays because you can afford to dump more mana into it on average. Unlike other outlets, Perilous Forays helps you police other opponents without limiting you to number of creatures owned. In that way it is a very aggressive outlet if left unchecked, and is undeniably just burn. Maybe you won't be able to kill the whole table since you're limited to basics, but it should put at least one player of your choice on a quick clock. Isn't that still everything you want out of a card?
Sylvan Scrying - I still think this one is a must have because it can get you Cavern of Souls, which depending on your table could be game-saving in itself. Of course there are many other routes you can take.
Temple of the False God - Seems like another way to accelerate past our opponents. TBH I've been unimpressed with Strip Mine because it's anti-tempo and I think this may be a better fit. Shoutout to _Arra_ for reminding me about Strip Mine.
Steely Resolve - I agree we can cut this. In a way, we kind of had 5 Steely Resolves in the deck if you count our 3 creature tutors and Sylvan Safekeeper. Cutting it allows more flexibility, like ramping in it's place.
Interested to hear people's thoughts! I love to hear devil's advocates, so please sir, maybe I have another!