I could use your help hkhssweiss and DrkNinja. You have both been very helpful in the past, and if it's not too much of a bother I was hoping you guys could help.

I really just need extra eyes on this. I'm not sure what to cut, or if I've made good card choices for this deck. I would really appreciate it if you guys could help!

Heya Darkshadow327, glad to help out. So before I can offer some input I have a few question for ya~

1. What is your main game plan? You said you want to abuse ETB/LTB effect, but in what way? Combo, value, attrition? Teysa has quite a few ways you can build her around.
2. Budget wise, what is the most your willing to spend on a card and overall budget that you have? If there is a core card that is needed would you be willing to get it?
3. Meta wise, is this for casual play, optimized/tuned play, or going for the competitive route?

Looking forward to hearing your reply!

hkhssweiss

1. Basically a little bit of everything. Hangarback Walker , Elenda, the Dusk Rose , etc. for tokens. Night Incarnate , Dictate of Erebos and other things like that for removal. I've got some that can put counters on my tokens, some aristocrat through Blood Artist effects, some literal attrition through Attrition . So, I guess you can say I'm mostly going for value. I guess I should have been more clear in the little description I whipped up.

2. My decks don't have a budget since I'm a high school student and can't afford it anyway (though I do have 2 or 3 decks on here that are decks that I actually own). Although, if I ever built one of my decks it would probably be this one. Mostly I just build these decks for fun and for other people that are looking for a deck. Also I usually play in Untap when I have time, so collecting the cards there isn't a problem.

3. I usually go for optimized/tuned since that is the level I like. I don't like cEDH and full casual just never seems to have enough "oomph".

I hope this answers your questions!

Darkshadow327

Ah I see so your currently theorycrafting right now. Alright I'll build a test list and you can take a look at it to see if that is something you like. I'll let you know when I constructed it, going to be away for a couple hours. I'm going for more of a value/combo build with slight stax maybe, but I'll see what's good!

Oh one more question if there was a maximum budget, since you are a high schooler what would be the budget limit, because if there was no budget, I might be inclined to add cards like Mox Diamond , Mana Crypt , Grim Monolith and the likes which aren't budget at all. Is $50+ cards no good?

hkhssweiss

Ya, theorycrafting is probably a good description.

I would try to keep it lower in case I do try to get these cards some day. Although, once the orzhov guildkit comes out I'll probably have a deck. I have a hunch Teysa Karlov will be in the deck.

Alright I'll have a deck list up in the next day or so, and I'll keep the cards within $20 unless I feel there is a card that is too good not to include as that feels like an acceptable range to acquire cards :P

Ok... So... I think your best bet when it comes to this deck is to win through token generation and sacing said tokens to various sac outlets giving you triggers from cards like Blood Artist / Zulaport Cutthroat . I also gotta say I'm not a huge fan of your card selection here... I'll write up a list of Cuts/Suggestions it'll take some time though so bare with me. BUT I can give you one suggestion (besides Artist, and Cutthroat) right now... Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim she is this deck's wet dream.

hkhssweiss

I look forward to the list, I'm curious to see what route you go with Teysa.

DrkNinja

Blood Artist type cards will definitely be a power house in here. I tried to do the best I could with card selection based on what knowledge I have. I also did some searches on gatherer and EDHrec to find cards. I agree that some cards are a bit lackluster, but that was more because I couldn't really see a better option. Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim definitely is good in here, both as a sac and removal.

I'm intrigued to see your list, I'm sure it will be helpful.

Once again, thanks for the help guys! I've been stuck in a rut for a few days now.

So I'm assuming we are going with a sac outlet style here, and I have a couple of win cons. Exsanguinate / Debt to the Deathless for a large amount using Ashnod's Altar / Phyrexian Altar , Sac outlet procs from Kokusho/Artist/Cutthroat/Evangel, or Mirror Entity swarm.

Suggestions:

• Lifeline
• Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
• Mimic Vat
• Open the Graves
• Pitiless Plunder
• Sheoldred, the Whispering One
• Bontu's Monument
• Expedition Map
• Razaketh, the Foulblooded
• Debt to the Deathless
• Teferi's Protection
• Songs of the Damned
• Thran Dynamo
• MindStone
• Coldsteel Heart
• Viscera Seer
• Mirror Entity
• Pious Evangel  ^Flip
• Reanimate
• Phyrexian Plaguelord
• Solemn Simulacrum
• Oversold Cemetery
• Exsanguinate
• Toxic Deluge
• Smothering Abomination
• Dark Prophecy
• Gate to the Afterlife
• God-Pharaoh's Gift ?
• Grim Haruspex

Cuts:

• Ashen Rider: I personally hate this card, it's so god awfully expensive and it expensive for a pretty vanilla creature... I think that unless you are playing a reanimator style this isn't worth playing at 8 CMC
• Butcher of malakir: I know a lot of people love this card, but I'd rather just play Dictate of Erebos and Grave Pact over this any day, too expensive and too easily destroyed.
• Extractor demon: It's too expensive and mill is one of those things you have to COMMIT to.
• Havester of souls: I'd rather see a Smothering Abomination , Dark Prophecy , Gate to the Afterlife , or Grim Haruspex
• Knight Of The Last Breath: It's really bad.
• Krav, the unredeemed: This one is a bit iffy, it could be really good it could be really bad playtest with it, and if the deck doesn't do what you want it should be onthe first to go list.
• Light of the Legion: You don't have enough white creatures to make this worth while.
• Regna, the Redeemed: It's just WAY too expensive.
• Nomad's Assembly: This could be good, but it's far too expensive
• Storm Herd: This isn't your game plan my friend, I mean sure you could play it and win off it but I think you're better off taking that 10 mana and dumbing it into an Exsanguinate or Debt to the Deathless
• Rise of the Dark Realms: Too expensive, and you have no way to cheat it out.
• Cathar's Crusade: your gameplan should be more sac to get triggers and do silly things, not attacking.
• Divine Visitation: It's a Win more card in a deck that isn't solely based on making tokens, not worth.
• Sanguine bond/Exquisite Blood: I'm just not a fan of the combo, it pisses people off and is no fun. Play one or the other, not both.
• Grave Betrayl: Too expensive in my book
• True Coviction: Triple white in a deck that is prominently black... No thank you... Plus this doesn't contribute to your win con.
• Sword of Light and Shadow: Why? It won't protect against your board wipes, and it's very much not your strategy.

Alright Darkshadow327, I finished a prototype deck for ya. Try see if you like using this as your base. I'll delete it in a couple days :P

Teysa of Undying Souls

Commander / EDH* hkhssweiss

6 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

Pretty much an aristocrat themed deck made to abuse certain creatures with Teysa, Yosei and a double lock down in particular is really nasty. The deck price is about $550 but we can go for more alternative options if that's still a bit too expensive.

DrkNinja

• I've found that Ashen Rider is a good political tool since people don't really like their stuff exiled. It is a card to consider taking out though.

• I've definitely been on the edge about Butcher of Malakir , I agree with you here

• I've been on the edge about Extractor Demon too.

• I like the "may" clause on Harvester of Souls , but it is definitely a card to consider replacing.

• In a vacuum Knight of the Last Breath is definitely horrible. However, in this deck it can really work. Sacrificing something to just get a token out of it (along with any death triggers) is useful, and the low 4/4 stats are more than compensated for by the fact that it has Afterlife 4.

• I do like Krav, the Unredeemed since it can help with many different areas of the deck.

• Most of my tokens are white, which is why I have Light of the Legion . It is a card that have really been leaning towards cutting though.

• Regna, the Redeemer is definitely expensive, but I do like token production and the fact that she can tutor for Krav. Definitely one that might not make the cut though.

• Nomads' Assembly and Storm Herd synergize very well with the token theme, and the fact that all those tokens will gain me tons of life is worth it to me. To be honest since this won't be cEDH they aren't extremely expensive by commander terms, though Storm Herd is definitely pretty high on the curve.

• Again, while it might be higher on the curve Rise of the Dark Realms won't be extremely hard to get to. Although, target recursion might be better in this deck.

• With all the tokens I'm gonna get attacking will still be relevant, especially since the tokens dying can still trigger effects. Cathars' Crusade can help, it might not make it in though.

• Divine Visitation is another card I've been on the fence about, it would probably be better in another deck.

• While Sanguine Bond /equisite blood do combo, it's not one that I'm actively searching for. 99.999999999999% of the time they will end up being on their own.

• Been on the edge about True Conviction and Grave Betrayal .

• Sword of Light and Shadow just gives that extra lifegain and recursion, just have it in the "protection" category because I didn't know where to put it.

Lifeline is cool, I've never seen that before

Totally forgot about Razaketh and Sheoldred. I feel stupid now.

Bontu's will definitely do work

Teferi's Protection has been in and then cut more times then I can count, it is definitely staying this time though.

I've been considering Smothering Abomination , it would be good.

Oversold Cemetery is a really cool card.

Toxic Deluge is a good one, forgot about it too.

I really appreciate this! I'm sorry if it seems like I'm not accepting suggestions/criticism, I just like to provide explanations.

Thanks hkhssweiss!

I wasn't trying to give you a cedh recommendation because I don't play cedh but I do like playing very optimal and making sure that my debt comes out. I play in a pretty fair, I would say about a 7 on a power level, group of people and you have very little ramp and very very expensive cards.I recently played a game with my mizzix deck, which I thought was really good, where literally I just never had the mana ever to do anything because everyone was taxing me or forcing me to play counterspells when I didn't want to. It's be ashamed to pay 10 Mana for a storm herd or 9 for a dark realms just to have a board we come out. You want cards that have value and innocent immediately, not cards that make you wait a turn.

Understandable DrkNinja, I can see where you are coming from. It does suck to wait a turn before it is useful, but sometimes you just want to go "hey look what I just did. Isn't that crazy?". Or am I just being weird?

Some good feedback though, you've given me a lot to think about.

I understand where DrkNinja is coming from, as efficiently tuning a deck means to lower the curve and optimally play cards that will do something the time you cast it, as if you don't have ways to cheat in spell it will be a dead card in your hand which is never a good feeling.

Don't worry Darkshadow327, if you like playing big spells like that than you just have to find ways to ramp up to be able to cast those spells as well as protect them. If you like big spells like Rise of the Dark Realms than add in a Boseiju, Who Shelters All to ensure that you will be able to cast those spells. Need a way to get that land will black as access to tutors and budget tutors to get you there as well as certain creatures to get you those lands like for example Weathered Wayfarer .

Finding the right balance in your deck is always the biggest thing when your tuning a deck, sometimes you have to bite the bullet if you want your deck to become more efficient and not use the high end spells to compromise. However at the end of the day, this is your deck so it's up to you how to build it and how you want to tune it for your playstyle! ^^

yeah I'm not saying don't play big spells because Jesus Christ my favorite deck is my Jodah good stuff deck where I just play big-ass spells.

However I'm saying you just don't have enough ramp to make all those big spells work. So you either have to come down on a spell cost or you need to go up on the ramp.

Ya, I see where you are both coming from here. In all honesty Storm Herd has a good chance of being cut, I still have to cut ~20 cards.

Darkshadow327

Here are 20 cards you can consider cutting:

• Ancient Stone Idol - Too high CMC and just a beater.
• Crested Sunmare - I like it but one of your slower weaker cards.
• Falkenrath Noble - You have cheaper same redundant effects.
• Knight of the Last Breath - Way too high CMC, doesn't impact board.
• Meadowboon - Doesn't trigger Teysa.
• Night Incarnate - Not good enough.
• Krav, the Unredeemed - We don't generate that much tokens to be efficient.
• Seraph of the Scales - Good in limited, in EDH she is subpar.
• Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts - Too high cost, and you don't want people to swing at you.
• Vindictive Vampire - Same reason as noble.
• In Garruk's Wake - Too high cost.
• Storm Herd - Just needs to be cut, as no way to free cast or reduce.
• Helm of the Host - Fun card but doesn't synergize efficiently.
• Ashes of the Abhorrent - This might actually one day be bad for your game plan.
• Exquisite Blood - not that great by itself and hard to combo off.
• Sanguine Bond - Same as above.
• Nomads' Assembly - There are better ways to make tokens.
• Thrilling Encore - I like this card as well, but most of the time holding up 5 mana is quite hard.
• Cleansing Nova - You already have Merciless Eviction , you don't need two types.
• Thran Dynamo - This might seem weird, but I would rather have a 2 CMC mana rock over this one at times.

Hope that helps cutting!

Hmm, some good points here hkhssweiss

• Definitely agree with Falkenrath Noble and Vindictive Vampire . Odds are pretty good that I'd get one of the others anyway.

• I usually like In Garruk's Wake because it's asymmetrical, but you pointing it out made me go "wait, I want my creatures to die!"

• For some reason I was thinking Night Incarnate and Meadowboon triggered off of Teysa.

• Cleansing Nova was in here mainly for artifacts and enchantments since has trouble dealing with them, but I suppose I have a few ways to deal with them. If worse comes to worse odds are good that someone else will deal with the threat.

• I guess I do already have cards like Krav, the Unredeemed that are better.

• Thran Dynamo was a card that I was thinking about, but I agree that I could do without it.

• Seraph of the Scales was in here mainly for the afterlife and possibility for deathtouch, but I agree that it's lackluster.

• I suppose Exquisite Blood / Sanguine Bond are better in a dedicated lifegain deck.

• I guess Thrilling Encore is a bit expensive

• Maybe one day you will be in a deck Storm Herd . One day . . .

• I suppose there are better ways than Nomads' Assembly

• I do like the death trigger on Ancient Stone Idol and that fact that its cost can be reduced. A card to consider taking out though

• I'm definitely on the edge about Knight of the Last Breath . On one hand it has afterlife and can be a sac outlet, but on the other it's stats are kind of bad.

• I feel like Helm of the Host can do good by cloning creatures with death triggers. (My goal is to make a ton of Elenda, the Dusk Rose 's. But I live in Magical Christmas Land most of the time, so who knows if that will happen).

I really appreciate this. Both you and DrkNinja have brought up good points that have really sped this process along!

No problem Darkshadow327!

For the case on Knight of the Last Breath , he is just way too expensive and the Afterlife 3 is cool but the stats and investment on him is just way too high to consider. If he was a 5 cmc slot I would consider it but 7 is asking for too much. If he was Afterlife 6 as well than yes there are ways you can use him. But as of now just no, Twilight Drover is just better and can lead to more shenanigans.

You can add in Storm Herd as I said previously, this is your deck. It is a bomb that has to be answered and if you have only one high cost spell for funzies, that is A-OK! Evryone has to have that part in them where they want to play fun spells no matter how non-sensical it is.

Once you get the deck in paper you can fine-tune it and see how it will play out. Nothing beats actually playing with your own deck and seeing the results!

hkhssweiss

Storm Herd might come back in, but only if there is a spot for it. I'm proud of what this deck has become, it seems close in power level to the Arcades, the Strategist deck I've made. That deck is the one that I consider the best I've ever made.

I doubt I'll get this in paper anytime within the next few years. I don't make money and my playgroup doesn't like commander (They should be ashamed). If I have time I'll definitely play it in Untap though.