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Return all permanents of the color of your choice to their owners' hands.
Vorel is an absolute beast and Simic is among the strongest two color combinations in EDH, making it a joy to both build with and play. I realize my deck is hardly "budget conscious" but if you're ever interested in what sort of tech it runs take a look here: Look Ma no Wraths. I break down some deck-theory stuff there, but I'll cover some basics here.
You're building around Vorel. You need two things: things for him to target, and ways to get his effect going multiple times.
For targets, in EDH, you don't want just "big creatures," you want creatures with useful effects. Efficiency or utility. Some good examples include Etched Oracle , Spike Weaver , Fathom Mage , Plaxcaster Frogling , Lighthouse Chronologist .
For getting the most out of Vorel you're either going to want effects like Illusionist's Bracers and Rings of Brighthearth , a means to untap him like Prophet of Kruphix and Minamo, School at Water's Edge , or both. Doubling gets completely out of hand very quickly, and doing it multiple times a round can turn a single +1/+1 counter into a legitimate threat. Good tutors include Green Sun's Zenith and Chord of Calling as a means of increasing your odds of hitting Prophet of Kruphix of Seedborn Muse , but in blue you can just run straight card advantage to get you through your deck.
The one weakness Simic has is that, without White or Black, you're sort of weak on board control. No Wraths in these colors I'm afraid, but Blue has some good options in Cyclonic Rift and Wash Out so I went with a bouncing sub-theme. Since you have multiple opponents to deal with in EDH trading one card for one threat is rarely going to be enough, card advantage is important and cards that remove multiple threats are huge. Be sure to include some form of board control in your design, don't bank on overrunning 3 opponents without interference from one of them.
On the topic of efficiency: ramp is good, ramp that gets you more cards than you put into it is better. Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are both auto includes, and I run Hunting Wilds , Skyshroud Claim and Ranger's Path on top of Vorel-friendly mana ramp like Fertilid , Everflowing Chalice and Astral Cornucopia . Ramp is critical to deck reliability, making sure you get to the point where you can cast what you're drawing game after game. I know this sounds like a basic concept, but it's amplified in EDH and all multiplayer formats because it's not just one other player going after you draw-go because of a missed land drop, it's three or four players sitting between you and another chance to drop a land. EDH thrives on big effects and endurance and these cards simply get you more out of the slot than most in that role.
Hinder + Spell Crumple
Trinket Mage + Sol Ring /Mana Vault /Lotus Bloom depending on the build
Treasure Mage + Mindslaver /Caged Sun , keep in mind +
Cyclonic Rift /Evacuation /Inundate /Wash Out
Nice deck, I'm building an Uyo, Silent Prophet EDH myself, and we both use the same theme of "copy for extra turns", however, in my version I run a lot less instances of 'Return all x to their owners hands' and a lot more 'Gain control of target permanent'. You seem to be doing both as well, but you run enough bounce permanent spells that I wonder if it's not counter-intuitive to have so many of these anti-interactions; e.g Bribery + Evacuation , Blatant Thievery + Wash Out ;to where it looks like you're just 'Bribing' creatures from your opponents library to put them back in their hands. I instead ran a lot of mana-locking things like Power Drain and Mana Short . I wonder though, how does your hand play out? I haven't build mine yet, but I just wonder if its not better to run power-counters like Mana Drain and Rewind . Thanks for any advice/conversation. I also had 2 suggestions. One, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx . and 2: maybe drop Eternal Dominion . it kinda stinks.
Alrighty, I see. Haha. Here's my deck then. Derevi Would Tap That. Check it out, you might see combos you might want to use. Also, I dunno your budget so I'll just suggest cards that I think would be best for your deck.
As for control, you'll probably want to put in Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger and/or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (most creature combo pieces or creatures in general have 2 life or less, this shuts down those decks and give a banner effect to your own creatures).
Now for replacements:
Azorius Cluestone and Azorius Keyrune : Cluestones and keyrunes are trash, imo. Replace one of them with an Azorius Signet , Chromatic Lantern , and/or Darksteel Ingot (for color fixing). The latter two are very, very good in EDH.
Judge's Familiar --> Any hard counter spell or Glen Elendra Archmage : Do not use this creature in EDH. Anyone can easily pay one mana to have your sacrificed creature be wasted. My favorite counter is Split Decision . You can stop counters when you respond to them or you can end up copying something, but it doesn't matter which effect sets off as 1U is an excellent cost for its effect.
Temple of the False God --> Rogue's Passage or another basic land: Having to wait on Temple to go online when you could be dropping a basic or other land to cast something is the reason for losing tempo.
Rupture Spire --> basic land: Same as above with loss of tempo, basically. Paying 1 mana to LAND DROP a land that comes into play TAPPED is ridiculous. Lol.
Dryad Militant --> Scavenging Ooze : You don't want to have your sorceries or instants exiled. You can instead recycle them using Eternal Witness or Archaeomancer which I'll suggest as an addition below. Why? So you can reuse counter spells and such. Scooze allows you to exert GY control against GY shenanigans on a body that won't limit you.
Aerie Mystics --> Asceticism or Archetype of Endurance : Up to you which one. Giving your creatures spell evasion in the form of hexproof so you can still target your own stuff (untapping) is always better over shroud.
Wonder --> Archetype of Imagination : You have to rely on sending Wonder to the GY, and you won't be able to consistently do that (you'd need to run black to do that), so you could instead use AoI. It also denies your opponents of flying so your creatures won't be blocked.
Frozen AEther : Your opponents will have artifacts and creatures come into play tapped, rendering artifacts and creatures with haste useless.
Medomai the Ageless : This card is just freaking great. Take an extra turn and deal more damage with your other creatures, cast more control cards, etc.
Nature's Will : Combos with the above card for even more advantage and casting.
Rebuild : Mana rocks are important in EDH to speed up the deck, so why not bounce everyone's rocks when you have already exerted control on the field (either with Vorinclex or Grand Arbiter).
Kruphix, God of Horizons : His synergy with the prophet is ridiculous. If you can store mana with him, you can usually go off with explosive plays even after one rotation after your turn.
Lighthouse Chronologist : Lol. Self-explanatory.
Soul of New Phyrexia : If your opponents (or you) mass boom the field, then just activate this and bam. Your stuff is still on the field.
Oracle of Mul Daya : Who cares if you opponents can see the cards you're about to draw? You get two land drops! Major advantage.
Candidates for removal:
Civic Saber : Why is this even in here? Lol.
Jace's Phantasm : Same with here, why is this here? You're not a mill-reliant deck. This is just using up space in the deck.
That's all I can think of right now, haha.
I don't really like Collective Restraint a lot.
The other two are ok but what are you cutting for them?
AEtherspouts was going to go into my list, but the owner gets to choose where it goes. So you can't use it to put generals on the bottom. And it only gets one players creatures. Not all of them. Wash Out or Whelming Wave are better IMHO
Thanks for all the insight and the advice. I really appreciate it. And I get that tone's really hard to convey over written word (er, typed word), so no worries there. :D
It's never been that Counterspell is too "competitive" for my "casual" build. It's a feel thing, y'know? Tempo control, bounce and all that, feels less of a d*ck move than saying "No. I have two mana up, so you can't have the thing." I recognize the utility of having a larger counterspell suite, but I think 5 (well, 4.5; Trickbind doesn't counter spells) is the right balance between "This is a permission deck. You best be asking me before things resolve." and "Counterspells are awful things that should never be used."
I'd never play a blue deck that utterly eschews them, but there's a balance. The four and a half that I've got have served me well, and I've never come to a situation where I've said "I should run two or three more counterspells in case this situation comes up again." They're also the right counterspells for me and my playstyle. I prefer a soft counter like Split Decision or Hinder , or an expensive one like Desertion , to a cheap, hard counter like Swan Song , Counterspell , or Dissipate , even if those are better cards.
Capsize was a scenario where, with this deck largely in the place it is now, a friend of mine said "if I see that card show up in a game, I know I've lost." And it wasn't that he needed to step his game up - this was against decks on a very similar power level (among them Kemba, Kha Regent and Grimgrin, Corpse-Born , which both have given this deck a curb-stomping). Out of respect for my playgroup, I don't run the card anymore.
Cast Through Time is more of a "I want to keep the CMC of this deck as low as possible" thing. I've personally decided that 6 CMC is a hard cap for any card I want to include in this deck. It's an excellent card, to be sure, but it also takes 7 mana and doesn't give me an immediate return on investment, even if I cast spells immediately afterward. If I were to add a 7-mana enchantment to do such a thing, I'd much rather have Eye of the Storm , because of the immediacy of the effect.
Bident of Thassa is a personal thing. I played it, and it comes in a slot where I should've just played Talrand, and now I wanna start amassing Drakes, but first I gotta wait and play this enchantment that still takes a whole round before I get value out of it. I usually would rather have played two or three cantrips and gotten 4 to 6 power on the field than a potential 2 cards next round.
How to put my thoughts on Mystical Tutor . Hm. If this were a combo deck, and the point of my combo was to get a particular instant or sorcery and copy it to all heck, I'd be okay with Mystical Tutor . In this deck, it was usually a panic button. I'd see another player start going for a way to win, and I'd want to be able to stop that, and the Tutor was a second copy of a way to stop that. It was rarely, if ever, a way to play an instant into a cantrip into three more. While the utility was something I enjoyed, it was nonetheless creating static gameplay in the way I ran the deck, which I don't appreciate in EDH. So I cut it.
Quicken 's definitely something I've considered, but a lot of the time it's a dead draw; there are maybe four sorceries in this deck I'd like to play at instant speed (Inundate , Wash Out , Curse of the Swine , and Recurring Insight ). Another person seeing the utility is making me reconsider, though; you think it'd be worth removing Reweave for a Quicken ?
Thanks again for all the help! (Goodness gracious, that was longer than I thought it would be.)
The question is, what kind of deck are you after? From everything I can gather you're after a the best casual deck you can build on a budget. The problem is there is not such thing as a solid line from casual to competitive. For me, a casual deck will still run Counterspell and Mindbreak Trap , and same with Capsize . In fact things like Capsize I wouldn't really consider running in most competitive decks due to the 6 CMC.
I get that you don't want counterspells. But I question the basis behind some of your rules. For example Cast Through Time is a permanent that should go in your deck, as for the space of 1 spell you have Doubled all the rest. That just seems like value to me. You also cut Bident of Thassa . This card is broken with your general, the card advantage is insane. In your 'Overhaul!' comment you mentioned that you want more library manipulation, which is basically what Bident does (in the form of drawing cards from your library). You also cut Mystical Tutor even though you no longer run Capsize . And at the end of the day, if you find you're fetching Cyclonic Rift then force yourself to just go for something else.
I don't want to sound aggresive, I really love talking with players about their decks and offering advice, just like I love getting advice on my decks. So please don't take my comments the wrong way, I'm just trying to figure out what you're wanting to do with the deck and trying to tailor my comments accordingly :)
Um. It's a nice spell, but it's far from being the best sweeper available to Izzet in EDH. Plus, it doesn't actually take anything off of the board.
Let's start with the colorless sweepers that are available to everyone. Nevinyrral's Disk , Perilous Vault , and All Is Dust . Not a fan of that last one because it falls flat against artifact decks (and you have Vandalblast , Shattering Spree , and Shatterstorm for those). You've also got Engineered Explosives and Ratchet Bomb more more fine-tuned mass removal.
Blue isn't big into mass sweepers, but it has a few options. Illusionist's Gambit isn't even a sweeper. It's more of a weird damage redirect that has a global effect. But in terms of getting things off the board in blue, you've got Cyclonic Rift and Wash Out . Budget-wise, there's also AEtherize that could do in a pinch. Echoing Truth is great against token armies. But that's about all I can think of at the moment. I'm sure blue has more than that.
Don't even get me started for red, dude. Red has tons of ways to enact mass removal. There's the obvious over-the-top spells like Obliterate or Decree of Annihilation that just blow up almost everything. Don't bother with the Izzet guild classic Mizzium Mortars because 4 damage just isn't enough in EDH. Blasphemous Act is good. My personal preference is for spells with split second, so Molten Disaster is good. If you have a big mana pool (and you probably will b/c it's EDH), Bonfire of the Damned , Starstorm , Comet Storm , and Sudden Demise are solid. There's also Flame Wave which is good if you have damage doublers like Fire Servant , Furnace of Rath , or Dictate of the Twin Gods in play. There are also red creatures like Balefire Dragon and Scourge of Kher Ridges that act as good sweeper creatures.
As a red commander, Jaya Ballard, Task Mage can sweep the board over and over again. I built a deck around her. Handing her something like Sword of Kaldra means mass exile for all when she uses her third ability. It's fun.
But you're playing Izzet. I've given you a few of what I deem to be most playable in EDH as far as sweepers in your colors are concerned. Good luck and happy deck building!
|Avg. draft pick||3.78|
|Avg. cube pick||9.15|
|Commander / EDH||Legal|