|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Commander Anthology (CM1)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Uncommon|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Return all permanents of the color of your choice to their owners' hands.
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Wash Out Discussion
1 week ago
So you say this is supposed to be a tempo deck, but I really don’t see that many ways to get ahead on tempo. I don’t know the number of colors in your pod, but Wash Out can usually let me get ahead of one opponent. Likewise River's Rebuke . Also I think you’ll find that playing more creatures that already have flash will leave you more flexible when your commander dies. Like if your meta has a lot of tokens Crafty Cutpurse would be great
I have a raff list that’s a little more geared to control, just because I wanted a deck that could play some 6 cmc counters.
2 weeks ago
I just recently built this deck and and have been play testing it for a bit.
Unblockables and ninjas go hand in hand for getting pokes in however once the ninjas are on the table in becomes very hard for them to repeatedly connect turn after turn as they are quite weak. Cards like Wingcrafter, Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, Thassa, God of the Sea, Wonder, Key to the City, Cover of Darkness, and Shizo, Death's Storehouse can all grant evasion to your ninjas after they've landed.
The other way to help your ninjas get through is by resetting them by bouncing them to hand and re ninjitsuing them in. You can return them via board wipes like Whelming Wave, Coastal Breach, Devastation Tide, and Wash Out or you can pick them up one at a time via Quickling, Cavern Harpy, Faerie Impostor, Equilibrium, etc. The latter is more mana intensive and cards that are required to have other creatures in play can be clunky so be warned.
Lastly a hidden tech I haven't seen anyone using: Dawn of the Dead. Thanks to it's old text we can avoid the downside of exiling our reanimated creature by making sure it isn't in play during the end step by picking it up with ninjitsu.
This Yuriko Primer helped me a ton while building my deck. There are tons of tips and tricks discussed in these forums such as using Emerge, exploit, and other niche cards.
2 months ago
It's all subjective. Spike refers primarily to attitude toward the game and the core engagement for the player. In this sense, even a brand new player can be spikey in the sense that they may want to tune their precon to better suit their meta and find a card like Wash Out will do work in their group. Although most EDH players wouldn't think much baout a new player putting Wash Out in their deck, this particular player may have been aiming to tune their deck and make it more competitive. The rest of their deck may suck, but this player could still be a spike.
In this sense, no one has an answer to your question. I think it's reasonable to say that when a deck outperforms all other decks at a table consistently even in spite of politics, then that gameplay experience likely won't be great for anyone involved.
Still, you'll find that in most player groups, you'll always find someone with a holier than thou attitude who talks like they know what's best for the format or players who get vocal about certain cards, calling them bullshit, unfair, etc.
The thing I like to remind players about is that EDH is a grassroots format where peak power level isn't always the primary objective (definitely not for most players). As a result, everyone is left to wonder where they would like to fall in terms of power and what kind of group they would like to play in. It helps to remember that no one owes you anything in EDH, but if you run insanely potent or annoying cards, people might not want to play with you. Nonetheless, no one has the final word on what's fun or fair.
To illustrate where I'm coming from, I'm a relatively high level EDH player. To me, the guys in the command zone are often wrong in the card assessment and their decks aren't good at all. I say this because I'm used to incredibly cutthroat competition. Still, I'm not going to take my competitive decks to my LGS. Instead, I'll use some toned down deck in order to not be that guy.
Still, if you want to make a deck that won't ruffle too many feathers at your local shop, you should aim to create something that doesn't have an overload of tutors, an efficient game-ending combo, mass land destruction, and stax effects like Winter Orb. That's not to say that you can't run any of those effects; just that a lot of players hate seeing those types of things at their sessions.
5 months ago
Thanks for your reply, Azusa, Lost but Seeking need a real synergies with land, she can't make a deal herself, 36 land is not enough. Selvala, Heart of the Wilds need too play Huge creature, In Ezuri a play small creature who become big with marker, same with azusa, she need a play a lot of creature too become powerful. Wash Out is not a good card, is sorcery and if you play against Green or Blue, you can return your own creature, you can't choose. Equilibrium is slow but can be powerful you need too test it if you like. I play with a very agressive still so i have creature to control or card like Rapid Hybridization but if my opponent clear the board and i don't counter, is generaly a loose. A play a lot of tuto for this, too search the creature a need to counter my opponent for that, i will have generaly a chance to defeat all deck againts because of that.
5 months ago
Nice recomendations Lebleu1806 thanks! yeah actually Iam already using the Trinketmage, Hope of Ghirapur is interesting option, is not a counter but can work, I will update the list after some playtest Iam thinking in add Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Selvala, Heart of the Wilds and add one more land I'm still reluctant to use elves, but I've noticed that I have to accelerate the mana a Lot! What do you think about Wash Out and Equilibrium? the deck need's more removal and control,Curse of the Swine is good but is a double edge sword another card that Iam thinking isCrawlspace maybe Iam going to far but my meta is so agressive, another card not so good but surprisingly effective wasSilklash Spider
5 months ago
Commonly control loses card advantage in 1 to 1 trades, because there are two opponents who didn't lose cards, but you did, if for each trade you make, you draw a card, the trade is a 1 for nothing. It is straight gravy. Honestly it is a 2 for nothing, since you got a drake. 2 for nothing is absurdly powerful.
The issue is blue doesn't have the best tutors, and that will mean you won't get this level of gravy often, but we can try to optimize the list to survive until you can, or until we find another card drawing engine.
There may be a problem here that you have noticed, you still spend the mana of each card you cast. We have to make sure your answers are very cheap for you to win. I want 0 mana spells, 1 mana spells, and 2 mana spells as your answers. If they are any higher, they have to either:
A: be castable for a alternate cost to make it cheaper (Force of Will, delve spells, etc.)
If all of that is done, we need to talk card draw, outside of engines, engines are great, but we can't just run engines, they are slow, clunky, and few-and far between. You run plenty of the next point, cantrips. Let us take the best option, Brainstorm. It is absurdly powerful, one mana to dig 3 cards, at instant speed, using up mana that otherwise would have been wasted, if you held up mana on the opponents turn. It helps find the answer or counterspell you need, all in response to the Food Chain you can't let resolve.
You run a number of cantrips, even some bad ones I would switch, like Telling Time, it may look like an Anticipate, but being forced to top a card sucks. I would run Anticipate over it any day, but you already run that, so toss in a Preordain, I promise, it is worth it tenfold. Quicken would be another drop, toss in Kindred Discovery over it or something.
Cantrips are nice, but good card draw, like Fact or Fiction, you know, a way to get more cards in your hand than you had, they do cost mana. 4 mana is topping it off, and it has to be instant speed for me to consider it at 4 mana, but FoF fits the bill. Windfall should be run, as the control player, before an engine hits, you need to spend more cards than your opponents do to keep threats of the field. Windfall gets you the new hand, and tosses out whatever cards your opponent tutored out.
The trick with sweepers it to hit as much as possible, and be 4-2 mana, or do other great things. Cyclonic Rift is an example of a great removal spell, that occasionally can double as a sweeper, but shouldn't be held back for that effect. Whelming Wave is pretty good at sweeping opponents, I would drop Inundate for it.
Most of your creatures I could drop for more tutors and answers and card draw Solemn Simulacrum isn't worth it, as it doesn't have flash, it wastes a turn and doesn't win you the game, you could lose it if an opponent combos out because you couldn't answer it. Toss in a Mana Leak or something in it's place.
Others I would suggest dropping for basically the same reason are as follows: Archaeomancer, Burnished Hart, Chasm Skulker, Docent of Perfection Flip, Duplicant, Fatespinner, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Phyrexian Metamorph, Portal Mage, Sower of Temptation, Thing in the Ice Flip, Trinket Mage, Vedalken Shackles, Mindslaver and Runechanter's Pike.
All of these drops will allow for more space for answers, card draw, and a little bit more ramp, such as Fellwar Stone, Sky Diamond, Coldsteel Heart, etc. More answers like Pongify, Mindbreak Trap, Snap, and other answers can allow for exponentially more ways to stop your opponents.
Not all answers are great though, Boomerang is a card I would drop for a better hate-piece like Pithing Needle, Grafdigger's Cage, or any other decent hate-piece, like Silent Arbiter for a meta in which beat-down is regular, or you see a lot of Tymna the Weaver lists. Damping Sphere against storm, or whatever else you need.
In conclusion, I'll probably write up a rough list for this style of game, and good luck!
6 months ago
I am only seeing 8 or 9 cards that would benefit from Panharmonicon. I don't think that's worth the slot in the deck or the 4 mana investment. I would rather see the deck have some more answers for opponents' cards. Mizzium Mortars, Cyclonic Rift and Wash Out are great for clearing away blockers for your attacks.