Horn of Greed
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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Archenemy Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Planechase Legal
Premodern Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Horn of Greed

Artifact

Whenever a player plays a land, that player draws a card.

StopShot on Is Staff of Completion a …

2 days ago

I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say cards like Temple Bell and by extension Horn of Greed are not bad cards and they're perfectly fine to run in non-group-hug // non-wheel decks.

I see the argument that one card for you is collectively three cards for your opponents, but last I checked, hardly ever do all three of those cards get aimed at you to begin with unless you're running a tier 0 meta-deck against a group of casuals who already see you as the archenemy. Do you want to know what is also one card for you, three for your opponents? The draw steps taken by you and all your opponents, so by the same logic it would imply you already start off with a massive disadvantage the moment you start any game which is just silly. Like, how could a seven-card hand ever beat a collective 21-card hand that is your opponents'?

Let me put it another way, if my opponent plays a Temple Bell by the same logic for every one card that Temple Bell gives me, it's collectively giving three cards to my opponents. When applied by that perspective doesn't that not make Temple Bell sound like a serious threat of a card to my game plan? Well, it's not. The logic just doesn't hold when put to practice.

Now look, if there was another card with the same CMC that had "{T}: Draw a card." Then yes, that would be serious leagues better than Temple Bell. If something like that exists for you to slot in definitely make the cut or hell, why not run both? Both is fine in my opinion.

My analysis on Temple Bell is that it is mostly good, not amazing, but definitely serviceable. Its only con is that you're using up a card to effectively double the number of draw steps for everyone. If this was a 1v1 format having a one-card disadvantage just to alter the flow of the game is just gimping yourself for a loss unless you have some serious payoff tied to both you and your opponent drawing extra cards. In a multiplayer format where wins and losses can be heavily dictated by how much the table wants to gang up on someone Temple Bell's drawback is incredibly negligible when compared to the forces that are beyond your control. (Though if you wanted to, you could argue giving your opponent's extra cards can have some political sway over how much they would be willing to team against you which can be a pro in of itself, but I digress.)

Temple Bell has two pro's that I'd argue make it worth it over its one con, but the trade-off is very debatable so let your preferences be the deciding factor here.

(1) One pro to consider is, if you play a game of EDH and in this scenario everyone's decks were perfectly balanced such that those decks could consistently win by turn 8 always, then the player with the best chance of winning in that scenario would likely be whoever started the first turn of the game as that player would reach their 8th turn before everyone else could take their own 8th turn. Your odds of being the first player is not favorable and if the probability of drawing something game changing is what your deck is banking on for a win, then Temple Bell changes the dynamic almost as if you were the player that had started first. That is to say if it is turn 7 and you're going last you can tap Temple Bell to draw your eighth card on turn 7 and while this will also give your opponents their eighth card at the same time, it will be during your main phase while everyone else will have to wait for their main phase after yours before they can use any sorcery speed card they may have drawn. Keep in mind this only impacts effective turn order where card draw is concerned as it doesn't affect other aspects such as additional land drops and additional combat steps. Also keep in mind Temple Bell benefits you only every other card drawn such as in this scenario your opponents will still draw their 9th card before you, but you'll still be able to effectively draw and use your 10th card before them and so on. Do note this is still much better than having your opponents always drawing and using their Xth card before you do without Temple Bell in the same scenario. And in scenarios where you're the player who goes first where your draw step always comes before everyone else's draw step, having Temple Bell effectively double up on your draw step which only furthers the advantage of going first. These are advantages you wouldn't get with Howling Mine and Font of Mythos and is why Temple Bell and Horn of Greed should be seen as a serious upgrades from those cards.

(2) The other pro is that giving your opponents more cards in situations where one of your opponents is in the lead makes it much easier for the table to gang up on them and set them back, and in situations where you're in the lead you can simply choose not to ring the bell just to maintain your advantage. You can make the counterargument of what good is a card if it has no use under a given scenario, but the only scenario where it doesn't have a use is if you already happen to be winning. Would you really scrap a card that could save a game you would have lost if it can't be counted as a win-more type card? At worse it will definitely prolong games, but I'd hardly ever say it hands a win to an opponent on a silver platter. If an opponent was able to power through three opponents that had extra card fodder to throw at them then it likely wasn't a game you were going to win without the Temple Bell anyway. This is one advantage I'd give Temple Bell over Horn of Greed, but if your deck has a means of removing the horn easily when you're ahead then they'll both work great especially if you're operating a deck that can easily fly under the radar of your opponents.

To conclude this massive word wall I want to restate, Temple Bell is a serviceable card. Not amazing and not bad either. As always, if you can find a similar replacement that gives only you card draw with negligible drawback, that should always be the better pick, but again there's also nothing wrong with running both. If a card isn't breaking anything in your deck, then why make an excuse to fix it?

Profet93 on

3 months ago

I don't see a lot of draw in here, how about a Momentous Fall or a Shamanic Revelation? For something more on theme although symmetrical, Horn of Greed. Greater Good is also a great option. It's a sac outlet to prevent theft, exile and can net you a ton of cards.

Castle Garenbrig - Simple ramp

Fetchlands like Fabled Passage, Terramorphic Expanse and even Myriad Landscape are potentially worth considering. Especially given you run crucible and ramunap. You run a lot of basic forests. Have you considering swapping some of them out to create additional utility in the mana base? Sadly a lot of the more powerful lands are expensive but there might be some that are worth considering depending on what you're looking for.

Potential Cut - Questing Beast. I don't see how it's purpose in the deck. Is it a meta call for a PW deck?

fuster on Mana Flooding is a good thing?!?!?!

4 months ago

Profet93, Let's talk about these suggestions, because I have ran most of these cards in the past and just straight up cut them:

Yavimaya Hollow and Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth are definitely cards I've considered for a while, but I can't reasonably justify cutting any other lands for either of them. I don't feel like I really need the fixing that Cradle of Growth provides, and the only card I'd really want to protect with Hollow is my commander, and I already run plenty of counterspells to protect her anyway.

I don't run enough basic lands for the Eldraine castles to ETB untapped consistently, and I can't justify cutting any other utility land for either of them. Deserted Temple and Gaea's Cradle is such a good combo, but the temple doesn't help me much if I don't have Cradle out already, as there's nothing else in the deck it really synergizes with. Plus, that combo feels very win-more.

As far as your non-land suggestions, I have run Abundance, Snapcaster Mage, Splendid Reclaimation, Tireless Tracker, and Courser in this deck in the past and just ended up cutting them all. Abundance just proved to be too expensive at 4CMC, and I cut it for extra ramp because it would either be a dead card in my hand, or I'd cast it and constantly forget its trigger since I have a lot of other triggers going on too.

I cut Snapcaster Mage because I actually have an easier to tutor, more efficient (and repeatable!) way to recur my instants/sorceries in Mystic Sanctuary. In the context of this deck, Mystic Sanctuary is just straight up a better card for that purpose.

I cut Splendid Reclamation for Ancient Greenwarden because Reclaimation is a dead card if my graveyard is either empty or only has 1-2 lands, while Greenwarden adds consistency even if my graveyard is empty by giving me a blocker for fliers, as well as doubling my landfall triggers.

I cut Tireless Tracker pretty early in my deck's development because it was too slow, too easy to remove before I racked up clue tokens, and I almost never had the spare mana to crack clue tokens anyway.

I went with Dryad over Courser just because the extra land drop is just that valuable to me, and I prefer it over playing lands from the top and gaining life, both of which I can already do with other cards anyway. It being easier to cast and allowing my fetches and colorless utility lands to tap for any color I want is just icing on the cake.

I've never considered using Horn of Greed not just because it's symmetrical, but also because I have no other cards or synergies that can make Horn's effect one-sided aside from Narset.

Realistically the only card I actually do want to try out from your suggestions is Finale of Devastation, and even then, I'm not sure what to cut for it. Craterhoof would be the obvious choice, but it would cost an extra 4 mana if I want to close out a game Craterhoof style using this card.

Profet93 on Mana Flooding is a good thing?!?!?!

4 months ago

fuster +1 It's hard to provide meaningful suggestions to a deck so tuned but I'll do my best.

Yavimaya Hollow - Protection

Maybe Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth - Or do you not need colorfixing/helping opponents?

Castle Garenbrig - Ramp, or is it considered a tap land?

Castle Vantress - Scry, or is it considered a tap land?

Deserted Temple - Untap cradle

Swap half your basic for snow-covered to more easily trigger field of the dead

Maybe Abundance - Synergy with sylvan library and a decent filter.

Snapcaster Mage - Recursion

Maybe Splendid Reclamation - Although you might not have enough land saccing to justify it's cost/too narrow. Works well with scapeshift and all your fetchlands.

Finale of Devastation - Tutor/alt wincon, especially with avenger and cradle.

Horn of Greed - Or is it too symmetrical?

Tireless Tracker - Or is it too slow/not needed given you draw enough?

Courser of Kruphix > Dryad of the Ilysian Grove ? - Can you explain your thought process behind Dryad > Courser? On the one hand, dryad doesn't reveal your draws, provides an additional land drop and is slightly easier to cast. I don't see any significant benefit to it's other ability. On the other hand, Courser gains you additional life (while not needed), is harder to cast but allows you to cast from the top of your library. It does reveal your cards so perhaps that's the reason? I just assume when I'm against the blue player they always have a counterspell. Been thinking of swapping out Dryad for Courser in my azusa list.

SufferFromEDHD on Pain Is In Your Mind! *PRIMER*

1 year ago

Small world. I too am selling Memory Jar on eBay.

Horn of Greed value engine.

Docter_UwU on Sheoldred, The Apocalypse *CMDR*

1 year ago

I would say try adding Horn of Greed and Exquisite Blood for some utility and life gain/drain. I also feel that Defense Grid is a good card but doesn't provide a lot of benefit to your deck as It is. All in all pretty nice deck, Keep up the hard work!

Andramalech on

1 year ago

Hello! After checking this out, might you consider:

I really appreciate your inclusion of Mikokoro, Center of the Sea. It's one of my favorite lands.

Please continue to adapt and change and grow! This deck has so much potential. I did want to comment that a lot of what CoarselyRefined holds weight and Massacar also made great points.

One of the greatest bits about this site is how many different perspectives and playstyles are available through the community of users.

Good luck in your building!

DemonDragonJ on Kill them With Kindness

1 year ago

I have replaced Counterflux and Horn of Greed with An Offer You Can't Refuse and Crawlspace, which lowered this deck's average converted from 3.53 to 3.44. The horn was nice, but this deck does not contain a sufficient number of cards that synergize with it, whereas Crawlspace very much fits the defensive theme of this deck, and Counterflux is an awesome card, but An Offer You Can't Refuse better fits with the political theme of this deck.

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