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Latest Decks as Commander

Flash Discussion

plakjekaas on Please Enlighten Me

4 months ago


I'm not defensive, I'm just telling you you're wrong in certain assumptions you're making. Please keep complaining how nobody in the world is unique but you, while you're doing so, I checked out the decks on your page.

RambIe says...#36:

"Feather, the Redeemed as an example, personally i would take Jeweled Amulet over Sol Ring"

Imagine my surprise when I found out you play Sol Ring in your Feather deck anyway. On top of that, you play Vampiric Tutor in every single black deck. Really the epitome of creative deck building there.

At the moment of writing, there's 472010 decks listed on EDHREC, and that site doesn't use data from Tappedout, so a lot more than that exist. There's only around 21000 unique commander legal cards, so there will be overlap between decks. Of those 21000, a lot of them are bad cards. Even Wizards of the Coast admits that. Of the ones that aren't bad, there's still some that are obviously better than others. Those have a chance of becoming staples. In the age of internet and information sharing, you don't have to find out which are which anymore. You have the option to learn from others' mistakes, there's no need to make them all yourself. If you insist to do so anyway, that's on you. People who try to stop you from wasting time finding out some cards are not as good as others you could play, are not evil. They're not all lazy, they're still playing the game, so they're still gaining experience and skill. That's not something you can only get from finding obscure cards that nobody plays. Experience and skill come with finding out in a game which spells you should cast when, and why. Even if everyone would play the exact same 100 cards, some people will win more consistently than others, because they know what cards will win the game when left alone, and what cards are not worth the removal spell. Playing with established, "solved" decks will make you a better player, especially if you play them against other "solved" decks. You'll find out quickly that using Fierce Guardianship on a bad target will cost you, possibly the game. When you go back to optimized, casual or jank decks from there, you'll still be able to estimate better how to use your suboptimal nonstaples in the best way, because in "solved" decks, actual skill and luck are the main things influencing who wins.

EDHREC wasn't made to tell you what cards to play, it was made so you just don't need to read twenty-one thousand pieces of cardboard to find what works with your Commander, making deck building less time consuming so you can devote more time to actually playing the game after your deck is built.

We've had ONE ban influenced by cEDH. Just Flash. Because it lead to a lack of skill and variety, EXACTLY what you're trying to preach in this topic. A year before that, Iona, Shield of Emeria and Paradox Engine were banned, because the casuals, the non-$$-staple crowd, were losing too much to them and complaining. Banning every deck that overperforms out of existence is a Standard problem, every single card that got banned in magic apart from Flash and Lutri, the Spellchaser in the last year and a half, is still legal in Commander. Stop spreading lies.

And when you actually said it's retarded to care about the social contract, I lost every last shred of respect for your point of view on the format. I'm glad I probably will never meet you in a game of EDH.

plakjekaas on Please Enlighten Me

4 months ago

The actual use for them is the 40 other cards in your deck, of which you will have 2-3 in your opening hand on average. Even better, one of them is in your command zone, always available except for corner cases (Drannith Magistrate for example).

There is no card that will synergize with every other card in your deck. But synergizing with over 30% of your deck is actually a very good rate. That's why Jeweled Lotus is such a trap card, it works only with 1 card in your deck.

My mono W stax deck, led by Heliod, God of the Sun, plays none of the mana rocks from my previous post. It overloads on effects like Stony Silence to punish and slow down everyone at the table who does. That doesn't mean, however, that my deck doesn't run staples. Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Smothering Tithe, Drannith Magistrate, Recruiter of the Guard, Weathered Wayfarer, Land Tax, Enlightened Tutor and Aven Mindcensor are all cards that any white (c)EDH deck worth its salt should include to have the best chances of winning.

But all in all, you're making a great case of which staple to use when and why, but not really how you would be able to play EDH on the highest, most consistent level without any staples. The fact that you need staples to play the most consistent decks, still holds true. It might not lead to the most interesting decks for you to play or play against, and that's fine. I said earlier in this thread, the best way to play commander, or even magic in general is the way in which you have the most fun. The way the cEDH crowd has fun is by loading up on the best staples and see who can most skillfully guide them into a win.

The Kess thing is a weird thing to say, nobody says there's only one deck to play. If that was the case, magic would be like Solitaire, you wouldn't need to play opponents if everyone would play exactly the same deck. If you'd visit the database for most accepted cEDH decks, you'd see there's endless strategies even at the highest level that are able to win at a cEDH table. However, if you'd compare these lists, there will be a LOT of overlap, because in the meta, you need to be able to stop the top combo's at instant speed while executing your own. The best cards for those jobs, will work in almost every deck that can play them, that's how they became staples. A budget Kess deck will be able to cast a Counterspell when the flash-hulk deck tries to win, all the same as another flash-hulk deck would be able to. Flash-hulk was the boogeyman of the format for a bit, because short of a counterspell, there was no way to interact or stop it. It was instant, two mana, a two card combo, easy to tutor pieces in green and blue, and usually supported by black for more tutors. When Flash resolved, there was nothing short of a Stifle-effect to stop the comboing player from winning. And they could overload on free counterspells to protect it. The combo being that cheap in both mana and opportunity cost, while being so easy to assemble and hard to stop that the best way of not losing to it, was just running your own flash-hulk deck, is why the demand for the Flash-ban was there. But any blue deck with the staple counterspells, even the cheap ones, has a chance of beating it. Budget in cEDH determines which/how many of the established staples you can play, but it doesn't eliminate the need for the best cards that are available for the common person not willing to spend a month's worth of salary for a deck. It's the difference between Counterspell and Mana Drain, not the difference between Spell Swindle and Mana Drain.

Peligrad on Please Enlighten Me

6 months ago

Not all CEDH decks are equal either. Your definition of all CEDH decks winning by turn 5 doesn't hold true, especially since the banning of Flash CEDH has slowed down and the slower but more robust responsive decks tend to perform better than the super fast active decks.

The aggressive decks are extremely fast but fragile. Certain casual decks can win consistently against ones like this because casual decks run a lot of the same removal. A Swan Song or Swords to Plowshares or Assassin's Trophy played from a casual deck does the same thing that it does when played from a Cedh deck.

Additionally, politics play a role. When 1 CEDH deck sits in a pod with 3 casuals, all 3 casuals should be focused on the CEDH deck.

Peligrad on Court of Grace, the best …

6 months ago

CEDH is actually a lot slower right now than it was a year ago due to Flash being banned.

yes, a god hand can still happen to win the game early, sure. It is entirely possible that you blow two or three cards like Rite of Flame and then the spell you ramped up to gets Mana Drain'd.

Fragile aggressive decks that win turn 1 or 2 tend to be less reliable and hence lower tier than the more hearty responsive and adaptive decks that win slower but have interaction.

That is all aside of the point though. The majority of decks and play groups are not CEDH, why even talk about CEDH when the CEDH meta is stale and established.

Reznorboy, your are entitled to your opinion, but I think every card you listed with the exception of Land Tax and Weathered Wayfarer are jank. Why you'd even list a two card combo to argue against the strength of a single card is facepalm worthy.

The face that this is the way this conversation is going signals to me just how much of a sleeper card Court of Grace is.

SynergyBuild on Opposition Agent needs a preemptive …

7 months ago

Megalomania I mean, yea? I never said casual and competitive players were the same, but this is a social format, nothing about competitive v casual changes that. The format has a casual base, unlike standard, for example, but casual standard players have had dual decks and planeswalker decks and event decks made for them and have been mentioned, it doesn't mean they can't support competitive banlists, which standard does.

The standard banlist isn't controlled by the standard players, the commander banlist isn't controlled by the commander players. Both are controlled by separate entities, because competition shouldn't have biased rules for fair play, self regulation is a terrible idea and that's why it has never happened. Rule 0 occurs for individual playgroups of cEDH the same way that tabletop standard players can rule 0, since it isn't an official game, it doesn't have official rules, but if you are going to a tournament, expect competitive players to play competitive decks, and play with official rules.

If you dont like the Flash ban because you dont believe in banning things competitively, then Rule 0 it in when you are playing casually. Nothing is wrong with that, but when people who aren't in your playgroup are talking realistically about bannable cards just expect a discussion lead by people who aren't talking about rule 0, because ofc they aren't.

plakjekaas is entirely right, but I would mention here that it's like EDH is casual Vintage, and we are saying to ban Ancestral Recall and Megalomania is saying to turn cVintage into Legacy.

Btw that was actually done, Conquest was a failed format attempt at making a competitive separate banlist for EDH. It flopped because the players self regulated and banned decks too aggressively and with the mindset of gameplay diversity over diversity of playable decks.

SynergyBuild on Opposition Agent needs a preemptive …

7 months ago

Megalomania Why, between CommandFests having competitive tournaments and despite covid delaying a lot of it, there were 4ish different product changes meant to add more to commander making it a competitive format as a joint conclusion of WotC and the Rules Committee, with rules changes to allow more decks (the death trigger change) to be competitive, and bans for competitive diversity (Flash).

The goal of 2019 and 2020 was Commander and more competitive tournaments, more cEDH reprints, etc.

SynergyBuild on Opposition Agent needs a preemptive …

7 months ago

jaymc1130 While a ruling will need to happen, precedent would say that only the player who owned the card got to decide who gets to keep the card, but the latest timestamp would actually see who chooses the card.

Basically, both effects go off, and both effects take place, the owner decides which to choose, and whoever they choose last is the only one that effectively has their OP Agent exiling it for these purposes.

TotesMcGoats As a casual and competitive player, I'd agree that the format wasn't made for competitive viability, it was meant to be a silly format for judges to test and never meant for casual play either, and later was rebranded for casual play. At the same time, M:TG was meant to be a time waster, while DMs for D&D set up for further campaign management.

The difference many people brought up historically was that M:TG was later rebranded for casual and competitive play, and that they were balanced for it, and set up competitive tournaments with prizes, reinforcing competitivity repeatedly, with EDH not having that equivalent.

The reason I said that was historically the argument used was that with 2019 and commandfests, with prize awarded tournaments, and balancing banlists from much earlier, bans like Flash because of it's cEDH dominance, products made to balance it and cards specifically made for supporting EDH strategies to make them more competitive, etc.

Rzepkanut Why?

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