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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Yasharn, Implacable Earth
Legendary Creature — Elemental Boar
When Yasharn enters the battlefield, search your library for a basic Forest card and a basic Plains card, reveal those cards, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Players can't pay life or sacrifice nonland permanents to cast spells or activate abilities.
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1 month ago
certainly an interesting thought with a 2CMC Yasharn, Implacable Earth... Im not sure how I feel about it though... I am a huge fan of the card Blood Moon itself But back in the day with "Free win"" Mono-Red Prison or ponza lists that cheated out Blood Moon early with Simian Spirit Guide... idk i think that feels toxic.
1 month ago
I think low costed "you can't pay life" or "you can't sacrifice permanents" types of effects would go a long way to fixing the problem with greedy manabases. Fetchlands have gone unpunished for far too long. If there was a way to actually punish running so many fetches, Blood Moon becomes more powerful as well, and I think it would be enough to make people think twice about the amount of greed their manabase contains.
Something around 2 CMC that affects both players seems reasonable to me. Yasharn, Implacable Earth is the most playable form of hate I am aware of, but turn 4 is just too late. Such a card can't really be at 1 CMC either, since someone on the play could lock their opponent completely out potentially.
4 months ago
It was a little too greedy, so I reverted to something less greedy. However, after cutting all the fat, I found myself with enough room to play around with the main support color, and is basically the best currently.
Right now, with our higher than usual Forests and other mainboard cards that let us play through Blood Moon easier (went for consistency over greed) we don’t really need to dedicate slots to improving those matchups as much. This let me slot in Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines which is arguably an improved Torpor Orb and Defense Grid since we mainly want it against the mirror and evoke elementals.
I’ll have to update the decks description a bit, since this is what I am happy with for now.
I did toy around with the Timeless Lotus idea though, and I have gotten that pretty close to where I like it through playtesting, although that’s a far cry from this deck’s initial iteration, so I’ll make a separate iteration for that.
7 months ago
To be clear: An activated ability is always written in the form "[cost] : [effect]". Misty Rainforest's ability is an activated ability with a cost of ", Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Misty Rainforest". Since part of the cost to activate the ability is paying life, you won't be able to do it while Yasharn, Implacable Earth is on the battlefield.
8 months ago
Oh no! A functional monowhite commander! EVERYBODY PANIC!
Alright. I get that Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines is a big deal. A decent statline, vigilance, Yarok, the Desecrated as one ability and a much, much, much better version of Hushbringer as the other. She's certainly a powerhouse. But should she see the hammer? I think not.
I'll not say that Machine Mom isn't disruptive. She can shut down a good amount of popular cards in the format, such as Bramble Sovereign, Terror of the Peaks, and the notorious combo piece Palinchron. She can and will double up monowhite Oblivion Ring style effects. Honestly, I think that doubling Seal Away type cards is going to be the stax-ier part of Mama Machine. She doesn't shut down many combo decks (unless they use the aforementioned Palinchron), and really doesn't answer most cEDH decks. She hates out on ETBs, sure, but Yasharn, Implacable Earth hates out on sacrifice, arguably better. Gaddock Teeg is just absurdly good stax, and both Gaddok and Yasharn grant access to Green.
If you want to make Elesh Norn stax, then, ok, that's probably a deck that will give everyone a headache. But... are we going to cry "BAN HER!" for one way of building around Machine Mommy? If you want to run stax, go and buy a Hokori, Dust Drinker or Oloro, Ageless Ascetic. They're much better depriving everyone of fun than New Norn. Elesh Norn can do so much more than just stop everyone from having fun.
Honestly, a lot of the complaints that I see here are against the Stax archetype in general, not Norn. And I get that Norn seems like a good Stax commander, but... If hate stax, than complain about Hokori, or Oloro, or yes, even Archelos, Lagoon Mystic. Stax has its place: cEDH and masochistic playgroups.
Something that no one here is referencing is the Game Knights video in which Josh Lee Kwai played with a (proxied) Elesh Norn, and his deck was oppressive, but nothing too bad. Notably, Norn's restrictive ability saw a lot less use than her double ability, which was used to double small value abilities, as well as oblivion ring effects. The deck won the game, but it was very close and I wouldn't say it made Norn look banable. Not by a long shot.
So, in conclusion, Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines is a powerhouse, who certainly can be a problem, but probably isn't the worst card in EDH. Really, a lot of the complaints about her are complaints about Stax in general.
Thanks for reading my rant.
Also, did anyone else notice the fact that Navani (from Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive) and Elesh Norn have the same epithet? That always makes me crack up.
8 months ago
That still is alot of engine/incremental advantage pieces listed though & yes, Cathars' Crusade already rocks people without doubling up on it. Growing white weenie will get better in this deck doubling on some stuff white weenie already does, but isn't seemingly bannable to me. Doubling up on card-draw with white weenie is potent, but again, not game-endingly potent.
I think I saw some of the same discussion with Yasharn, Implacable Earth & his ETB benefit + nasty stax from the command zone, he turned out being fine. It will be interesting to see though, if you are correct & this does end up being busted as a commander.
11 months ago
Regarding the deck, I really think that Yasharn, Implacable Earth would be a solid include, as it finds both your basics, and hates on fetches, which most decks run.
1 year ago
TheOfficialCreator Sick, I was just wanting to be cautious, in some Discord Servers and a Reddit forum prior I was asked about reducing post lengths. Just wanting to respect a precedent I suppose.
Grubbernaut The opposing view is just as valid, and more insightful than having mostly the same repeated points towards this subject.
Ideally, I'd imagine, in a game about playing cards and constructing decks with those products; to ban a card is never the company's motive. They want to sell every card they have and for us to buy them. When a card is banned, it's usually for the health of the specific format to preserve as many cards as possible while allowing player's to access the game.
I think it's in this accessibility that cards get banned due to a perceived "power level" of the current "meta" that might have taken advantage of the card, or the effect of the product in question was so ill-received. Opposition Agent was one of the few cards I saw, and was rather excited about. Every player under the sun screamed "ban" and wizards didn't. I found this quite the impressive result because I'm skeptical that WotC tends to listen when their player's cry wolf; just look at the ban list.
It's obvious that certain gameplay strategies are favored. Feather, the Redeemed is obviously loved as shown by this forum, and that's super cool, but it's the player's choice to play that deck against an opponent they might not know and I believe accept the risk that their deck's strategy may be flat out exploited and shut down. I also believe that it is that deck's responsibility to have at least a couple of answers specific or otherwise to answer cards you, the deckbuilder expect to see shut you down.
I'm going to use Korvold, Fae-Cursed King as an example. I know plenty of people want him banned, and I can easily see why. Dude is sick, he's one of my prized commanders, but I enjoy how he plays. Of course I'm biased and don't want him banned, and he probably won't as up to this point they have yet to ban a preconstructed deck's face-card. I'm fairly certain that's by choice, otherwise WotC would have. But, is it unfair of me to ask that they ban Yasharn, Implacable Earth because it shuts down my deck's main strategy (I know not entirely, because you can still sac lands, and that's how I built my deck, but I did that because of this interaction. As a form of fail-safe and deck protection. Because my opponents counterplay every deck I bring because I even made Korvold). Is it fair, to counter a commander deck? I don't know. I'm not here to debate the ethics of playstyle entirely, but more the "legality" of rules as written, because otherwise why else would this discussion stand?
Commander should be casual in this sense, you should be allowed to play what you want, because if you don't, how much fun are you really having? I think this is why we have a rule 0. Excluding professional competitive environments (and there's a debate to how professional those really can be depending on the LGS or players) for the moment. To allow each player what they wish from the game, Rule 0 exists to please all parties with compromise if not mutual agreeable terms. "You want to play Feather, the Redeemed, I'd love to see how you built yours! Just letting you know, I have an Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief as my newest deck, are you alright with me playing this?" literally how every interaction before Casual play should begin, as dictating by the website and thousands of videos on the internet.
For the sake of peace at the table and respect for all players present, I'm entirely for this discussion. Like D&D (and I'll only reference this momentarily because it is also a WotC IP) it shows a sense of social courtesy to fellow players, that you do care about their deck, or cards, experience, or playstyle. That you are considering their participation at the table you joined, or the table they've come to play at. It's a game, and the first rule is "talk". This may be a touch rude, and absolute, but I've experienced a plethora of players too concerned over their commander and not being able to play it that I believe them sometimes at fault for gatekeeping their table from players building decks with the newest cards that have come out. I'm on occasion guilty of this (not wanting to have to switch out decks or else I'd get counterplayed, because my opponent didn't want to change commanders) but it's unfair to presume a player using a controversial commander like Jodah, the Unifier who I think is perfectly fine, would have ill intentions towards you the player, personally (in casual play).
Competitively. I feel like the game sports an entirely different flavor, one that is fast, calculated, and just as rich with players and their own method of interacting with this medium. When a player brings something like Urza, Lord High Artificer to a table to play for a prize. You've signed a social contract in a setting that'll require you to play. To counterplay. To out pace, out think, and like chess, determine your best route to seek victory. cEDH is a wonderful and freeing battlefield to be apart of, I think it's unfair to proceed as if both are the same formatted gamemode when they both interact quite differently. The ramp is different, the mana base is different, most of the spells will either be counterplay picks for decks you'd expect to see, and everyone there (or majority I'd expect) has literally signed up for this. Paid their LGS, and is wanting to win.
Now. Does that mean your neckbearded-odorous-shop-dwelling-compking is going to show up and try to sweep everyone with their 3,000. cEDH deck because they are compelled to win here, because they have short comings in life? And does this hobby support and enable this behavior? Kind of. It happens, sure, but no one wanting to have fun should care, and anyone trying to win now has a baseline to work off of. If it does happen, you literally know what they'll play, use, or at least what to expect. That's the magic to competitive play. To be (and this will be a wild example) Goku standing across from Cell at the Cell Games... is sort of how it feels in cEDH 1v1 shop comps. It's, really fun. I don't know, I'm not too experienced on this side of the format, I've literally lost every shop competition I've attended, but I see the value and joy it has and wish to respect it.
I do believe there is an argument to removing Sol Ring, I think it's a crutch of a card. Though I just count it with my lands at this point. It's the first card in a deck 99% of the time without it being said. Printed in every preconstructed product, the card makes the format what it is, and that's kinda dumb. No one (I'd hope) wants to play the same deck, but here we have staples, and Sol Ring is sort of one of them. It's our Ki-Blast, our standard poke-ball, it's the Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring, it's literally engrained into the game with so many printings and secret lairs. I'm baffled to suggest if we got rid of it, would it be just as "necessary" as any of the other cards on the ban list? I don't think so, most of them could probably see play with that Rule 0 in a casual game, but the ban list, is upheld for competitive players and that's kind of baffling.
That Casual players can scream to High Hrothgar and back about something like Hullbreacher or Opposition Agent and be bummed that both didn't see the same fate. But someone who plays cEDH now has to suffer the consequences of players who want to play competitions at their LGS but don't realize that their preconstructed product might not hold up. Sad to say (and I do realize this is an extreme variable based on literally whoever shows up, it's that random whenever you're new to the game until you notice who plays, what they play, and how they tend to play. Then you learn what to expect, and the fun of cEDH or what I enjoyed personally arises to the surface.) but most preconstructed products now, seem to sell a concept with the intention of being improved by the player and encouraging they buy more cards to do so. (I enjoy this aspect of encouraging the player to deck-build instead of relying on what they purchased, they can rely on creativity or the advice of their closest friend or the player across from them)
I've no rational experience in regards to having specific cards banned that I wished to play, unless Korvold sees the hammer, but even then, I'm not taking him apart. I'm just going to continue with Rule 0 and play him casually. I wish the game wasn't so ambiguous that these sorts of topics had clear and defined answers so that all could just agree on a single experience, but that's so restrictive and against the nature of the format. Perhaps Modern and Legacy see this, Standard certainly does (and I believe that's what makes Standard a rather fascinating format due to the fact that none of their rules are as ambiguous as EDH's Rule 0, which is necessary but rather counter productive when compared to cEDH. You can't argue Rule 0, but you can't abuse it either. More ambiguity.) and Draft as well.
I don't believe by having a ban list, you're helping, solving, or relieving a problem. I'm very much a casual, and believe you should be able to play what you want. "I'll suffer the wrath of Braids?" Cool. I want to see what you built that represents you, how you play, how you have fun. It's going to be my job to do likewise and hope it's a fun game for both sides. Now being mana flooded, mana screwed. It feels like more of a personal issue across all players, sometimes you hit a pocket because you over shuffled and all your lands have ended up together, I feel like not enough people take into account some players face this problem and blame a card, a player, a format and take that personally when mathematically they've added too many lands, not enough, over shuffled, didn't have enough protection, removal, boardwipes. The requirements for a "good" deck, in cEDH sounds excessive, but that's that format. Casually I think you should be able to build what you want and move on.
Also, apologies if it sounds hypocritical by the end, but I'm pro-Sol Ring for the simple fact that it enables some exciting combos with Salvaging Station & Ich-Tekik, Salvage Splicer. But that's just extreme biased, anyone could say the same about Flash, Tolarian Academy, or my favorite Panoptic Mirror. I'm certain they all had really cool interactions, I'm certain with the latter; and I'd understand why WotC could ban Sol Ring or be encouraged to, and I wouldn't be mad. I'd just adapt, it's all we do as players. Communicate, adapt, play/build, repeat.