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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
1 month ago
Megalomania I mean, to be fair I wouldn't say my accomplishments in 60 card constructed ever came over to cEDH, they are suuper different.
I have went up against a person that never stepped into a GP, or even played modern that could wipe the floor with my on knowledge of cards, who literally knew every single card in the game and every rule (this was around Dominaria, I haven't seen them since, they came from out of town to an FNM, and were huge into cEDH, Canadian Highlander, and limited). They had some weird brain thing idk enough about to comment on, but they were talented AF.
Basically, I am a mediocre deckbuilder, who relies on my mathematical knowledge and mild coding skills to make computers do the work for me, and test things much better than I can, and I think I'm a good player. My accomplishments in other formats doesn't mean much, which I think is true of jaymc1130 too. I don't think he tried to make it seem (at least in this conversation) that because of his and his playgroup's previous accomplishments that makes him better at cEDH. He's been playing about triple the time I've been playing, and yet we have a fine discussion in pms on this xD
I do think that the Inception package is a little weak in the current metagame, Gitrog, Kess, Kenrith, Najeela, etc. all are pretty multi-ended, so a single Extract won't often beat them, but Idk what deck you were talking about, so I won't comment much further.
In all honesty, I think jaymc1130 has a bit of a different metagame and mindset going into the format, so may see things in a way that I or you may not see as true or as obviously. I so far have understood everything he's said despite that, and even been attempting to inform myself on those niche metagames, because it shows how metas adapt much faster than the overall metagame, which can take time.
While perhaps not the best example, Leptys's Gitrog Monster deck (Gitrog Dredge Combo [Primer]) is one of the most famously good, stock versions, and 3 weeks ago was updated to include a second eldrazi, which helps stop the "Inception Package" that jaymc1130 had previously had a metagame using. That is why their version of Gitrog already ran two eldrazi shufflers, which happened to predict the future of Leptys's brew about two years prior. It just focuses on the specifics of the format, and attempts to fix them all at once. While often making their decks worse in a total (why I think his playgroup doesn't favor Rhystic Study, and does favor Oko, Thief of Crowns) vacuum, assuming their deck was going against the average cEDH field, I do believe that he has an interesting perspective on how the metagame could change.
Personally, I'd view any inbred metagame (not an insult, I think any group of less than 12 people is bound to be inbred, where their meta shifts farther from the general metagame, and moves toward more interesting strategies that battle against eachother, and are worse in a vacuum) as a petri dish. It is a strong way to see how things could naturally grow, but much faster than waiting for real metagames to adjust.
jaymc1130 isn't wrong when he says that Oko is better than Rhystic Study for his metagame, but he could be wrong when he says it's better in your metagame, as it's never going to be that simple. That's why DeinoStinkus wasn't wrong when he assumed Rhystic Study was a better play (or at least he'd rather drop it than oko), I personally have found it is an incredibly valuable card in the general metagames of MTG in online forms, where people often do not pay for it, and as such it gives vast amounts of general value.
If his metagame has adjusted to it's play-patterns, it would make it much worse overall as a card, though still perhaps being useful. If they aren't adjusted to Oko, Thief of Crowns as well as my metagame, as well as dingusdingo probably has, based on his statements, perhaps you too.
Honestly, I think jaymc1130 made some comments to me, that were meant to show credibility, and not superiority, and some misinterpretations of that set a bad mood. I personally have no issues with jaymc1130, I think he has a really cool personality (wanna be frands?), is a wonderful deckbuilder, and has a sweet, unique perspective on the format, as well as being good in a more generalized metagame too.
I think dingusdingo is an amazing brewer and honestly a pretty civil person too, but got the wrong idea from that initial misunderstanding that some reading what mine and jay's discussion could have gotten, and for that I will take some blame, for not properly explaining it when things got heated. Tbh, I agree with some of the other points, like the lab maniacs and other members of the community being seen as gurus when they aren't, and are just players like the rest of us.
Megalomania, while I don't know you as well, I love the cEDH brews I see on your front page, and have to apologize for Flash's ban on that front! I think you also misunderstood out discussion, and it was easily misunderstandable, so that's not on you either.
Tl;dr: I think a misunderstanding of credentials being elitism caused bit of drama, when it really comes down to the fact that I think you all are pretty chill people that I'd like to hang with. The cEDH community is small as is, let's not fragment it any further!
2 months ago
It was based around Extract and Praetor's Grasp effects and was astonishingly effective against fast glass cannon meta standard staples like Flash Hulk. The game plan revolved around playing a more conservative game and tutoring for wheels and exile from deck effects rather than combo pieces early in order to neuter the fast glass cannon combo decks at the critical single point of failure (for example, Narcomeba/Eldrazi against Shuffle Hulk, or Jace Maniac/Lab Maniac versus Doomsday/Consultation decks). Many of the older meta standard staples had multiple critical points of failure in their typical lines of play, any one of which could be compromised to completely eliminate that deck from contention in the match in any relevant way at all.
After the printing of Veil of Summer this tactic become less effective as it relies on blue and black player target exile/discard effects and Veil obliterates the line of play when it's in opening hands or tutored for instead of combo initiation elements by fast glass cannon combo decks. For about a year and a half Inception was the most dominant deck in the entire format but new tools have made that game plan less attractive in competitive settings. Some of the principals are still sound and effective, but the specific tactic relating to targeted discard and exile spells no longer is.
2 months ago
Earthquake can be used to kill everyone at the table when we have infinite mana and need an outlet to win that turn, it is a fairly cheap way to kill creatures without killing our commander or tokens + our tokens can pay for it, Supreme Verdict is too expensive and kills all our stuff.
Extract is not a good card unless you are using it as a tutor for Foodchain decks. trading 1v1 when decks can easily pivot just isn't worth the slot. You can do some really cool niche things with it but that doesn't make it generally useful.
Comet Storm is not a cEDH viable card. There are plenty of ways to win with scepter already, no reason to include another dead card just so we can have an easy out to victory.
3 months ago
stiefanu this deck is very similar to another Maelstrom Wanderer deck that someone in my CEDH playgroup plays!
3 months ago
I don't think you fully appreciate the difference in skill play from your typical "cEDH" playgroup and a playgroup that consists, exclusively, of ex professional MTG players.
Our first 2 turns are generally set up also. Mana dorks, fast mana, maybe a cheap card advantage piece, but we are never, ever, EVER tapping out to do this. We're all running decks that contain 16-25 pieces of interaction. We all know we have it, or could be bluffing it, but some one definitely has it and a single piece of protection for our attempt is not ever going to be enough. Worse, when these over zealous attempts are made the table turns into an instant speed interaction war with everyone slinging things around and, as stated earlier, the very next person with turn priority wind's up with a commanding advantage. We aren't avoiding going for the early combo attempts because they get stuffed (the decks are redundant and resilient enough to recover), we aren't going for these attempts because the overwhelming majority of the time it grants the win to the next person in turn order priority.
We've played all those decks you list from your sessions, and not a single one you listed is tier 1 and posts even a 25% or better win rate in our group. And this over much, much larger sample sizes. The types of concepts these decks employ that allow them to win that quickly or only ever effective in the presence of less skillful players playing less well constructed decks and often less effective commanders. Hell, for the last 2 years in our playgroup Flash Hulk had a win rate under 25% (by the month of December 2019 it was in fact under 17%) because the Inception strategy simply dismantled it time in and time out. Something you have to keep in mind with data that's collected is that there is always an inherent bias in it. Tourney data for cEDH is sparse (at best, it's almost non existent compared to the other formats) and this means people have to rely on their own. For most playgroups this presents an issue because the data collected is not a result of the most skilled players in the format (or the game in general) piloting these decks and that data will contain certain flaws because of this. Just the same, OUR data set is also biased, though we take some rather extreme steps to drastically limit the bias and the pilots in question have lifetime success at the highest level of MTG competition (where most playgroups will never participate in a match with players who have earned lifetime pro points).
When our win attempts come they are typically a result of two things: 1) the table knows (or can reasonably surmise) one player has assembled a win in hand and will win for certain on the next turn they have so the table attempts their own before the cycle returns to them. Or 2) one player has secured enough of a resource advantage to be able to fight down 3 opponent's worth of interaction in the same turn. The third possibility, which is limited exclusively to circumstances where we are playing glass cannon all in combo decks, is that we force the attempt early because it's the only way the deck can actually win (Gitrog, Doomsday, Flash combos pre ban). This third possibility does not, did not, and never will result in consistent wins. It's less than 1/5th of the time. Closer to 1/6th. It tends to work when these combos can be employed on turn 1 or 2, and not at all turn 3 or later. These are decks that are designed with an over reliance on tutors and board delayed set up that present a major play pattern issue that such deck construction cannot resolve. They are forced to use tutors to search up the combo elements and postpone board state advancement in order to attempt to win that quickly and this makes these strategies extremely vulnerable to hand disruption and wheel effects as well as Extract that was central to the Inception strategy. Now we don't play that tactic as much these days because of the existence of Veil of Summer and the play patterns that card created, but even without the targeted hand disruption the overly tutor reliant play patterns proved too exploitable and over a large sample size of games that over reliance proved a significant detriment.
As for why Oracle's addition was so insignificant in helping those strategies, this was already addressed. The situations that Oracle's existence solved were the situations where Lab Man or Jace was in play, Forbidden tutor on the stack, and those pieces were hit with removal. This was already a very low percentage occurrence, so Thassa's Oracle doesn't change much and the primary means of stopping those lines is still interacting with the Forbidden Tutor itself. In the play patterns I describe where players play more skillfully and conservatively this makes these cards essentially dead cards in hand 90% of the time for the Consultation line player and playing a resource down is a big deal at that level of play.
Let's just start with something really simple, something incredibly fundamental and basic and see how you respond to the following situation. This will help gauge your competitive fundamentals and may help highlight why some of the things I'm stating are stated the way they are.
Here's the scenario:
There are 4 players in a pod. Turn priority is Shimmer/Doomsday Zur player 1, Dramatic Sceptor T&T player 2, Kess Consult player 3, T&V Curious Control player 4. It's currently turn cycle 3, Zur player's turn. They have a tapped Underground Sea and an untapped Tundra in play, a Chrome Mox in play with an exiled Ponder, an Imperial Seal in the graveyard, a just resolved Dark Ritual (tapping Underground Sea) in the graveyard with that 3 black mana used to cast Doomsday which is on the stack and 2 remaining cards in hand. You're player 2, you have Tropical Island in play untapped, any random fetch land untapped, untapped Birds of Paradise that is not summoning sick, tapped Mana Vault, untapped Grim Monolith, untapped Mox Opal. Your remaining hand consists of Counterspell, Chain of Vapor, and Vampiric Tutor. Kess, player 3, has an untapped Mana Confluence, an untapped Fiery Islet, a tapped Sol Ring, and a tapped Arcane signet, with a Preordain in the graveyard that previously bottomed both cards on their last turn, and 5 remaining cards in hand. Curious Control player 4 has a tapped Bayou, an untapped Command Tower, an untapped non summoning sick Deathrite Shaman, and a Carpet of Flowers with 5 cards remaining in hand. Doomsday is on the stack, you have priority, what do you do and why?
4 months ago
Damn, dongerlord. Thanks for the thourough analysis. You are clearly going very competitive with your list (don't forget Extract!) where I'm trying to build ... an on theme 75%? I don't know what my list is but I like it. It's fun.
Underworld Breach fits under Sun Titan and grants massive utility. In.
Narset of the Ancient Way look at my list again and look at all three abilities. Fits the theme.
I'm a huge fan of Surveyor's Scope but that exile clause... Needs Karn to make it viable.
The rest of the stuff was for a different style of play and direction of control.
5 months ago
Update Log (4/9/20)
5 months ago
I'd consider Green Sun's Zenith to fetch Dryad Arbor. You don't have any of the important card advantage engines currently (e.g. Mystic Remora, Ad Nauseam, Necropotence, Rhystic Study), so I'd really advise capitalizing on your opponent's big effects with Narset's Reversal. Dwarven Mine ought to be in the deck, it offers another way to make a creature at little cost to your deckbuilding choices. I'm personally I huge fan on Stifle. I'd for sure cut the three mana ramp spells like Cultivate, but add Nature's Lore, Search for Tomorrow, and Three Visits if you can afford it. I'd cut the Flame Sweep for Pyroclasm, and add in Subterranean Tremors. The way i see it, your combo needs a lot of mana. The way you do that without artifact ramp is that you play a control game so you can get to the lands you need. I'd add Portent and Serum Visions, and cut Summer Bloom. Frantic Search is bad. I really like Extract here. What about Khalni Garden? I like Unsubstantiate, as it can interact with Abrupt Decay. I'd cut the token makers if you can, mostly relying on fetches to go get Dryad Arbor or Dwarven Mine. You can play 9 fetches, that should get you there, in addition to Nature's Lore and Farseek being able to find them. I know you're starved for tutors but Long-Term Plans is way too slow. Focus more on cantrips and countermagic. Chain of Vapor is super strong. Swan Song is a good counterspell. You can also counter your own spell for the token! Gitaxian Probe deserves a slot. Nature's Claim and Natural State are excellent interaction. Pyroblast often functiond as a slightly worse Dispel. Lastly, By Force is excellent. All in all, your concept is SUPER SWEET, it just needs some fine-tuning.