Dwynen, Where Art Thou?

multimedia, 9 years ago

Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen as been a forgotten elf in this deck. Not using Dwynen has been a mistake from the beginning of this new Standard season. This deck needs more answers for the Jeskai matchup and Dwynen is one of them.

Dwynen has reach and 4 toughness, because of this she is turning out to be a fantastic road block for a Mantis Rider or Hangarback Walker thopters.

Jeskai is playing a vast number of different removal spells and most of them can't outright kill Dwynen. Valorous Stance is the best removal spell with Crackling Doom being the second. Even Doom is not the best to kill a Dwynen because Dwynen gives all other elves +1/+1 which means she makes Sylvan Messenger or Dwynen's Elite a 3/3, even Shaman of the Pack has 3 power, 4 with Dwynen, they can all be sacrificed to a Doom instead of Dwynen.

This deck lacks a way to gain life. Dwynen fills this role. If Dwynen attacks you can potentially gain a lot of life from your elves.

Dwynen has two big drawbacks, her casting cost of four and she is legendary which means only one of her can be on the battlefield at once. Because of these drawbacks Dwynen can't really be used as 4 of, 2 or 3 is best. Sylvan Messenger helps to keep Dwynen at a lower number because she can find and get Dwynen.

Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen and Skyrider Elf are great together. Skyrider is an elf creature so he gets the pump from Dwynen. Having both Dwynen and Tajuru Warcaller as ways to pump up a Skyrider makes Skyrider an even more powerful threat.

This deck was using Drana, Liberator of Malakir as both a great single creature threat and a threat with a battlefield of elves. The problem with Drana is Mantis Rider. An unpumped Drana can't attack through or block a Rider. Dwynen can successfully do both of these. Messenger can also find and get Dwynen, which is an added bonus she can't get Drana . Drana is being cut from this deck for Dwynen because of the overwhelming play of Jeskai and Rider right now in Standard.

SolarianNinja, 9 years ago

Im slowly buying the cards to build this deck, Im so excited to try it out! Once its complete I'll post how well its doing.

smilehoffin, 9 years ago

Change outs

dscherer21, 9 years ago

Removed Llanowar Elves and added World at War.

Comment Cleanup - #32 for today

Doomerrant, 9 years ago

Thanks to everyone who has supplied me with suggestions thus far! The deck plays like I want it to, however I'm still very much considering adding in blue to push it further and would like to hear some thoughts on how to intelligently go about this.

My main reasons for wanting to include blue are Dig Through Time, Dispel, and Spell Shrivel. I don't have to splash too deeply into the 4th color and can fetch a Sunken Hollow with Mire as is. Swapping Heath for a Strand wouldn't be hard, along with a few islands to replace some other basics. I'm just weary of screwing up my manabase too much.

EDIT: I have since thrown together a sample of what I'd like to see for a WUBR walker(ish) deck here - Moist Mardu - BFZ (Original MM)

LGS Results for BFZ Gameday 2-1

Knockadoon, 9 years ago

There were two of these Gameday events at my LGS, and I went to the morning one, which had only 5 players. I guess everyone showed up to the later one...

Well, there were only 3 rounds with the few people, and I got a BYE first round...1-0.

Round 2: 1-2 (1-1) vs Monored Landfall/Land Destruction

This guy had Landfall aggro creatures backed up by land destruction like Crumble to Dust and Volcanic Upheaval, along with Fiery Conclusion as removal.

Sadly, this was the perfect deck to hurt me with. He could kill a mana-dork in the early turns, then stop me from hitting four lands to get my smaller creatures out naturally by destroying my lands.

I took Game 2 with a good quick draw into Dragonlord Dromoka that he had no way to remove, but in Games 1 and 3 he starved me of mana and I did basically nothing.

Round 3: 2-1 (2-1) vs 4c Bring to Light

I watched this guy defeat the same Land Destruction deck I'd just lost to in the first round while I had my BYE. He was the only undefeated player coming into the round, so a win would have given him the top spot cleanly.

Game 1 I ground out with Whisperwood Elemental making his Planar Outburst ineffective as I got to trade in 4 mana-dorks and a Dragonlord Dromoka for 5 Manifests, one of which was a Dragonlord Atarka that I flipped up on my next turn.

Game 2 he was able to kill enough of my mana-dorks early that I couldn't recover quickly enough.

Game 3 he didn't draw the removal for the mana-dorks early and I was able to power out my big dragons and Whisperwood Elemental. His deck had Gideon, Jace, and Ob Nixilis and he didn't draw ANY of them in all three games, so that must have been frustrating.

Well, so there was a three-way tie at 6 points at the end, and the guy at the store said I won and handed me the playmat, but then saw that wasn't right and I ended up going from being told I was in the top spot all the way down to 3rd out of 5, so that kind of sucked, but that's the way the tie-breakers worked out.

I got a foil full-art promo Radiant Flames and two full-art promo Stasis Snare for playing, so that was cool. The Flames is now in my sideboard.

So I'm sticking with this deck for now. I actually ended up swapping both Den Protector out for another Whisperwood Elemental, since I was usually waiting until I had 5 mana before I'd cast Protector anyway, and for a second Outpost Siege in the maindeck.

I have 8 cards in the sideboard dedicated to the aggro RDW-type decks as my matchup in Game 1 is pretty bad. I've done some playtesting; my win percentage in Game 1 is about 35%, and after sideboard it only moves up to about 50%, giving me really only about a 34% chance to win the entire round against that kind of aggro, usually needing to win two games in a row after the first.

So I'll probably need to devote even more of my sideboard to that matchup as my maindeck is already pretty well-situated against most of the other common archetypes. I already removed most of the anti-control stuff from the sideboard since I have good cards in the main for that matchup.

I'm going to my LGS again tonight, so I'll have a little more field-testing done after that. If I don't play against aggro I might do well, but if I get that matchup it probably doesn't go well.

I haven't played against Dark Jeskai yet either, so I'll be interested to see how I do for that. I can win grindy games, but it takes a while, so if they put out a Mantis Rider early and back it up by removing or countering my big dragons, I'll probably lose since I don't have a ton of removal. But we'll see.

More Updates

clayperce, 9 years ago

I've been playtesting some new spells, and added them to the sideboard. ----------

A few changes...

paulbmoore1980, 9 years ago

So after doing some more testing I have decided to officially drop the 2 copies of Oran-Rief Hydra in favor of Woodland Wanderer. I ran some numbers and tested for consistency and found that the Wanderer comes into play 2 turns faster and almost as big as the Hydra. In order to make the most use of both the Wanderer's converge ability, and the converge portion of Infuse with the Elements I added 1 Prairie Stream, 1 Cinder Glade, and 1 Swamp. The Stream and the Glade are both fetchable with Windswept Heath and I can grab a swamp with an Evolving Wilds. I find that the swamp isn't totally dead in the deck as I can always use the black mana to activate the abilities of Warden of the First Tree. By the time the Wanderer comes out on turn 4 he usually comes into play with 3 if not 4 counters on him...more if a Scales is in play. I honestly feel that the vigilance coupled with trample makes him a more versatile threat than Oran-Rief.

SCGIQ/GPT 1-2-2

Knockadoon, 9 years ago

I'm not going to put a lot of detail about this event here. This was my first REL event, so that was interesting, but it was also the first time I'd tweaked a deck to a predicted metagame for a single-day event. I expected lots of Atarka Red and R/G Landfall, and so I adjusted the maindeck to fit that, and I guessed so so wrong. Only one person had a deck like that, so my original maindeck would have been much better. I sideboarded back into my original deck for each round, but gave away a lot of game 1's because of it.

Round 1: 1-1 (0-0-1) vs Bant Control

This guy was using counterspells, white Exiling enchantments like Stasis Snare, Planar Outburst and Awaken as a finisher along with Dragonlord Ojutai.

He got me Game 1 as all of my anti-aggro cards were mostly useless. I took Game 2 with Outpost Siege, Dragonlord Dromoka and Gaea's Revenge grinding out even past a Planar Outburst. But the games took so long that the round ended in a draw. Maybe I should have scooped quicker in Game 1 to give myself more time.

Round 2: 1-1 (0-0-2) vs Abazan Aristocrats

This guy is one of the better players at my LGS, and I've never beaten him (he's an Abzan guy through and through). This was a different deck than I'm used to him playing (no Rhinos). He was using Abzan Ascendancy and Evolutionary Leap and Vampiric Rites to sac creatures for huge value with Zulaport Cutthroat. I took the first game with the amazing one-two punch of curving Dragonlord Dromoka into Dragonlord Atarka.

Game 2 was a grindfest. My deck was working as it should, but he cast several planeswalkers that I was using Dragonlord Atarka to deal with and so I was killing them instead of the opponent. Looking back, I probably should have let him have his Lilianas and Sorins and just Atarka'd his face instead removing the planeswalkers with Atarka through the air. Eventually he put out such a huge horde of creatures, and he had Zulaport Cutthroat that I was essentially locked out of combat. If I'd attacked with Atarka she would have trampled over a pile of spirit tokens and thopters and the Zulaport Cutthroat triggers would have killed me. He ended up sac'ing them all anyway and drained me out that way.

We didn't have time for a Game 3, so it was another draw, but getting a draw against a player I've never beaten before is progress.

Round 3: 1-2 (0-1-2) vs GW Hardened Scales

I usually don't have a good matchup against this deck. My deck is trying to go big quickly, and this one can beat me to that punch.

I lost the first game quickly when he put out double Hardened Scales early. In Game 2 he didn't draw the Scales, and I got up to 61 life with Chandra's Ignition + Dragonlord Dromoka combo. He took Game 3 again by putting out double Hardened Scales early. I had enchantment hate in from my sideboard, but didn't draw it and flooded on mana-dorks and lands.

Round 4: 1-2 (0-2-2) vs GW Hardened Scales

This matchup again. Again, he won the games when he put out double Hardened Scales early, and I won the game when he didn't draw it early. This deck is super powerful, but I'm guessing it's not a Tier 1 deck because it's so much less good when you don't draw the Scales.

Round 5: BYE (1-2-2)

So yeah, I never actually won a round that I PLAYED in...

I think I could have taken either of the first two rounds if I'd had more time. I can grind out wins against those kinds of decks by eventually depleting their removal, but it's not super fast unless they can't answer a resolved dragon.

I ended up feeling like mana-dorks are too unreliable for mana-ramp right now, and put the maindeck back the way it was.

I'm seeing some successfull ramp decks online right now, but they mostly don't use mana-dorks, so maybe I'll try some of that. It looks to me like the best ramp right now is colorless, so that's great for ramping to Eldrazi, but not so good for hitting dragons.

Final draft

Gibsby, 9 years ago

I've done pretty much everything i can think of to make this deck viable but still keep it fun with a dash of charm. Same case as always sac a bunch of creatures for Knucklebone Witch and Facevaulter early game. Than unlike most gob decks this has potential in mid and late if it drags on to it by becoming a token spawn deck with Krenko, Mob Boss and Impact Tremors. Still has a good Morningtide themed feel to it and still does what you'd expect from gobs with a unique twist.

Telepath Unbound

ICEFISCH, 9 years ago

So.. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip is back in! Am I missing the early Card Draw? Yeah.. But I think this is for the better.

Trial Run

chadjshonk, 9 years ago

Played my first two games last night with my regular playgroup. It fared pretty well. As expected, the best creature in the deck is Darksteel Citadel. In game one, I managed to hold my own with removal and sweepers until I could get a small army (remember: awakening more than once on the same land is necessary, but don't put it all on one. Spread it out or one kill spell can wreck your game. Have to go a little wider.) I came in second, losing to an infinite combo that I broke up once with Cryptic Command but couldn't stop on the next turn.

Second game was a one-on-one with one of our group's best deck builders. The true control-aggro nature of the deck came out in that one. He was trying to go up the scale on me with Reef Worm but a simple Unsummon took care of that. Finished off the rather quick game with a Planar Outburst, wiping his board (and my commander) and swinging with a few large lands.

Things I learned: Instants are better than Sorceries. I know that's obvious but in this deck it's extra true. Being able to pump my team at instant speed, also on opponents' turns, invaluable. Also (duh), the lower casting cost, the better. Some more expensive cards are important (cannot wait to Part the Waterveil) but in general the lower the curve the better.

Things to watch from here on out: making sure the deck isn't too annoying/controlly so that I'm target #1 every game. I do NOT want it to be a "mother may I deck?" so I've given myself a limitation to only use counterspells to protect my stuff, not from keeping others from doing their thing. That's what people hate. Countering a Wrath of God that'll kill 4 of my lands? Acceptable Counterspell territory. Someone casting their commander? Let it land. The alternative draws too much hate. I can always Capsize or Path to Exile it if it comes at me.

Just like any control EDH deck (at least in my group) the trick is finding the line to walk. Blue isn't the most popular color among my friends so I have to be careful. They will hate me out immediately if I decide to lord over everyone's decisions.

Did add a Trickbind and an Ancestral Vision. I think I need to concentrate more on draw and less on counters because no one is going to come at me for casting Brainstorm. Until it puts 3 +1/+1 counters on my Inkmoth Nexus that is...

hard work pays!

Przerywnik, 9 years ago

Hello my friends! A big update of my deck! I added a lot of new cards like Jeskai Student or Valley Dasher for better tempo and agro/defence! Just check it out, and let me know your oppinions. This update also include the new sideboard - which is finaly complete. 10.28.15 will be the pauper event day. I primise i will write here after it. Thumbs up!

Dealing with Titans

Skyfolk, 9 years ago

So I figured for a while that this deck needs more ways to deal with the Eldrazi Titans (Ulamog and Kozilek), as well as generally better cards, since Nighthowler and Dark Deal weren't cutting it. Along with those I removed Umbral Mantle, which was also disappointing me.

In their place I added Coffin Queen and Cemetery Reaper (which do similar things, but differently) and Leyline of the Void. I think this makes the deck better and more consistent overall.

Changes

somsoc, 9 years ago

I've now had some experience of casting Gideon's Phalanx and Part the Waterveil and they both seem to justify their casting cost (especially since they might be cheaper thanks to Jace's Sanctum). I haven't yet lived the dream and rebounded Gideon's Phalanx.

Feat of Resistance is a card I loved in limited, loved in the W/B warrior deck, and continue to love in this deck. It just does so many things for cheap, and when rebounded with Narset it really allows the deck to power up.

Possible alterations

-Harbinger of the Tides - would require rebuilding aspects of the deck to fit in multiple copies. It's a very good card with Ojutai's Command, but I'm not currently running that...

-Ojutai's Command - the fact that this is on colour for this deck makes me want to find a way to include it, even though I just don't think it justifies inclusion without a lot of 2 mana creatures.

MAIN

-2x Dispel
+1x Negate
+1x Scatter to the Winds

SIDEBOARD

+1x Dispel
-1x Negate

This deck does not care about the opponent resolving most creature spells, especially given awaken spells require creatures to target, but it does worry about sorcery speed spells targeting Narset. I've added Scatter to try it out, and see whether it's any more useful given it can be returned to hand with Tidecaller.

I've debated replacing all the counter magic with Ojutai's Command, but the cost of the spell and the fact that countering creature spells is not something the deck wants to be doing is currently too big a downside.

MAIN

-1x Kytheon, Hero of Akros  ^Flip
+1x Jace's Sanctum

I didn't really have serious aspirations of making baby Gideon work in this deck, so I'm cutting it to play four of Jace's Sanctum. The games where you have the choice of playing it when you want from T4 onwards just enable you to power out a lot more spells and control tempo much easier. Drawing multiples of it is not great but it's not irrelevent like a lot of enchanments.

CrimsonVision, 9 years ago

Added Sylvan Messenger over Elvish Visionary, also took out Chord of Calling and put in Lead the Stampede.

Revision 1

Pokedude512, 9 years ago

- Adjusted the accidental 35 landbase to a more reasonable 25 - Added Sigil of the Empty Throne and Silkwrap to try out a more Enchant. strategy and help against aggro - Smaller Edits to help fill out the cards that were taken up by unneeded land

Mana Base Fixing, MD testing, and some SB tuning

gumybear, 9 years ago

-1 Forest -2 Mountain

+1 Shivan Reef +1 Yavimaya Coast +1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon

The mana base feels a lot smoother and hits all the colors easier including all CMC with two of the same color in its casting cost.

-1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways

+1 Sagu Mauler

The Shaman was feeling really slow and an unproductive play on t3 so I'm going to be trying out a one of Sagu Mauler in MD for the time being since he can morph and allows me to play a bluffing game with Rattleclaw Mystic also being able to morph.

Changes to SB

-2 Yasova Dragonclaw -1 Dispel

+1 Sagu Mauler +2 Whisperwood Elemental

I made these changed because Yasova Dragonclaw really didn't feel like it was doing anything in the SB and would die to cheap removal in the matches that I really wanted to bring it in such as against Atarka Red. The ditching of the third Dispel was more of a personal preference for the control matchup since I felt like a Sagu Mauler would prove to be more difficult for a control deck to deal with since I can get it into play without them being able to counter it. The 2 of Whisperwood Elemental is also a change for control hate since I can pop it in if I know my opponent is playing boardwipes like Crux of Fate.

lunagirl0418, 9 years ago

I made a +1/+1 Land Blitz that was meant to be casual but I forgot to add. The idea of this deck is to use +1/+1 combos to make creatures for extra mana strong, then to summon stronger creatures and overwhelm the opponent. I still need some more cards for drawing (I actually might not have any yet since I don't know the good ones). Feel free to suggest those or anything else. Thanks! This is just a place to show my ideas for this deck so it's casual, though I may try to convert it to standard. TGC Costs only about 17$ while the TIX is less than 2$. The Maybe board is for a more expensive deck (Or just cards) that would probably be more powerful.

Comments were getting too much!

Boza, 9 years ago

But keep them coming anyways!

More rebuild but less extensive

ocyo, 9 years ago

Good news, got to 121,14 EUR /133,78 USD.

Interesting news: removed some basic lands and added the sacred foundry as an interesting shockland. I wanna win fast so life is not all that important :)

Regarding a suggestion made by electromancer I changed the 4x Serra Avengers for 4x Lava Spikes. Deck turns more burn-ey but faster as well, hope this makes it a bit more reliable (but I still fear Leyline of Sanctity cough)

Stay Tunned!

sam-33, 9 years ago

Any suggestions for this deck? to make it more competitive and stronger and a good sideboard? Thanks for the help