Landfall as an inconsistent strategy? Not saying it's anywhere near cEDH but given all the support given recently I'd put that at least into question.

Also, you did my girl Atla dirty by not putting her in tier 0 XD

Thanks so much for making this list and doing all the upkeep for it!

Y'all talked mad shit about Thalisse, Reverent Medium in your assessment, but you didn't even rate her! I think Thalisse is offering something pretty unique to orzhov and token decks, and I think Elenda is at her best in a Thalisse deck!

Sephyrias: Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder is in a list with Thrasios, Triton Hero which uses Birthing Pod to get Pestermite and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker . Because Bruse Tarl costs 4, he shortcuts the line. The deck also has some decent sized beaters and he enables them better than Akiri does.

When will the Kaldheim Commanders be added ?

@Sephyrias: Bruse is mostly played for color reasons and as enpc described, he's the better target in Pod/Evolution decks to search for cards like Seedborn Muse or Kikki-Jikki. As you have correctly recognized, Roon is not much stronger than, for example, Atraxa (the boundaries are often very blurred), but many players forget that Roon can bounce opposing commander / creatures with instant speed and thus a constant threat on the board. In addition, you can loop Time Warp infinitely with Roon and Archaeomancer . The Siona combo is already rated high power. It's also not really a 2 card combo because the tokens don't have haste and GW is lacking stack interaction and has just better commanders like Captain Sisay or Yasharn right now.

And thanks for the reminder, we added Liesa, Shroud of Dusk , Thalisse, Reverent Medium and some new Kaldheim commanders. More will follow...

Svella, Ice Shaper - casual.....I respectfully disagree and hope to see her bumped to high power before the year is out.

Why is Kenrith in Titan category? I played against "competetive" kenrith decks (not one) maybe 4 times. 1st time it fell to my urza stax, then my godo then someone elses Niv mizzet draw combo (my missplay allowed that) and once I beat it with jodah when somebody played it in casual game. Kenrith is strong but not that strong.

Blacandrin: Budgetless Kenrith decks are very similar to Thrasios, Triton Hero decks in that all they need to go off is infinite (blue) mana. And while Thrasios can get away with colourless mana, Kenrith lets you run red cards as well as frees up a slot in the 99.

enpc I know, my urza runs The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale , budget isn´t problem, but from my experience it´s rather... inconsistent. I guess it´s just the small gap between mono coloured commnanders and 5 coloured ones.

Also, what turn is Kenrith supposed to go off at average? never saw it go off so might be a big coincidence that all the 4 decks were poorly piloted or poorly built.

More colours can always add a layer of inconsistency. I can't speak from game experience with Kenrith but I have seen a lot of Kenrith decks and have playerd Thrasios/Tymna and I do notice being a 4 coloured deck at times. So I can only imagine having a 5th colour.

I think it depends on teh kind of Kenrith deck you're playing as well. I have seen a few lists running the Thassa's Oracle / Demonic Consultation lines so they (in theory) should be as fast as any other deck. But I have also seen a few more midrange lists, which I would assume are playing in the turn 6-8ish range.

@Blacandrin: It looks like you've played against weak Kenrith decks so far (or your opponents were just unlucky). Because there are about 10 000+ different good Kenrith decks out there. A 5 color deck can be more inconsistent than a monocolored deck, but in cEDH it is partly the other way around, since the budget is often irrelevant. If a 5 colored deck has a perfect manabase and pretty much every playable tutor, then you just have to choose one of the different wincons and win with it. The most common ones at the moment are of course consultation / oracle and underworld breach lines. In kenrith there are no limits, and kenrith itself is a wincon (which means infinite mana = win), too. If you are interested, just have a look at the cEDH database and look at all the different 5 color top tier decks ;)

@ Commander_JAR: We've thought alot about Svella, Ice Shaper , but we've come to the conclusion that it's a solid card, but a bit overrated and that there are a lot of better gruul commanders out there. However, he would be one of the better casual commanders, the troll is probably even at the lower end of high power as you say. Let's see, maybe it will be pushed to high power in the upcoming updates because he has the necessary properties/stats.

I think Yuriko should be A- tier because it is such a good grouphug commander to build around.

strange list, dont agree with some things

RobertoSjaa: Group Hug is bad in competitive. It's pretty bad in casual too. But Yukriko isn't a group hug commander. And while she's good, she doesn't live in the same space as commanders like Thrasios, Triton Hero or Najeela, the Blade-Blossom . I get that you have a Yuriko deck listed on your account and I have see na lot of comments on lists like these that effectively boil down to "I run commander XYZ and they're really good so they should be in the top bracket" but unfortuately that's not a good argument since its pretty subjective (and generally introduces a bunch of bias).

casual_competitive: That's a pretty white noise comment you got there, care to expand?

!!! TIER LIST UPDATED !!!

@Rivrek: All Kaldheim Commanders should be added now, if someone is missing please tell us!

@Eisenherz: Thanks for your comment :) Grenzo moved up!

@Meessee: Yes this looks really spicy and fun! I love the flavour between Krark and his thumbs :D Thanks for sharing. How's the list performing?

@DasTree: there are a lot of cool possible combinations with Sakashima. I think the strongest atm should be Sakashima + Tymna the Weaver (Stax) but the cooler combination which I would prefer is Sakashima + Vial Smasher the Fierce . Another fun way can be the copy route. Meessee even posted a list for Sakashima + Krark in a few comments above yours.

@enpc: Thank you very much, I 100% agree.

@smilodex "And thanks for the reminder, we added Liesa, Shroud of Dusk , Thalisse, Reverent Medium and some new Kaldheim commanders."

I can't seem to find neither Liesa nor Thalisse on the list. Are you sure that you saved it?

@Sephyrias: Crazy... Yes you're right. Thanks again for mentioning again. Now I added them again...

enpc What i meant to say was that Yuriko is group slug. It is dominating in my playgroup were people is playing with commanders listed in B-tier in your deck- list. That is why i thought Yuriko would be more fitting in A-tier. And your assumtion that " I have seen a lot of comments on lists like these that effectively boil down to "I run commander XYZ and they're really good so they should be in the top bracket" but unfortuately that's not a good argument since its pretty subjective (and generally introduces a bunch of bias)" is false! I built a Yuriko deck because i thought it was a fun idea, not because I thought it was broken (even though it turned out to be dominating). I have seen a lot of other decks built around commanders rated top bracket in your listing and practically they would be "fair", or even underdogs against a well built Yuriko deck.

At the second sentance i ment to say "My Yuriko deck is" Instead of "It is dominating". To clear that up. And as you might have noticed on my profile, my Yuriko deck is very budget.

To give an example enpc, My budget Yuriko brew has often dealt up to 12 damage to each opponent turn two. The other commanders ratet top tier in your listing couldn't do that.

RobertoSjaa: Twelve damage turn 2 means that you ripped one high CMC card from the top of your deck after you ninjutsu'd Yuriko in (and looking at your decklist - and I mean no offense to it - that's hitting the most expensive card in your deck at 11 mana). The problem is that while you can do some decent damage, basically all of the decks in the titan class are designed to be able to combo off before you can connect enough damage to kill them. While this is talking about optimum play, the average CMC of your list sits at about 3.5 so hitting people for 12 damge on turn two is good, but unlikely (statisitcally).

Because Yuriko decks are designed to hit extra turn spells and then chain them together, there is a lot more momentum required for the deck to hit critical mass. The problem with decks like Thrasios or Kenrith is that most of them are designed to slam Thassa's Oracle or generate infinite mana (potentially off 2 cards) which is just a straight up win. And somebody winning on one life is the same as winning on 40 life. Unfortunately "almost" only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.

The fedback I'm providing is also not just my opinion but the cEDH community at large. There's a reason most people consider Thrasios/Tymna as the boogeyman and unfortunately Yuriko just doesn't stand up to that.

None of this is to say that Yuriko isn't good. There's a reason that she's ranked as highly as she is in most lists. And most of the time there's not a huge gap between the pinnacle commanders and the next step down. But unfortunatety still all the evidence is your opinion based around your deck. The problem is that it's still subjective, whereas most of the commanders in the the A tier (btw, this isn't my list, just one of the ranking lists out there) are ranked because of a lot of evidence from a lot of players across the community.

If you're determined to get Yuriko recognised as on the same level as the tier A commanders, the best thing you can do is gathering evidence (via actual game data) to change people's minds.

I see your point, but for a Thassa's Oracle dect to achive iffinite mana you depend on other spesific cards, Yuriko does not have that problem as you can hit a Temporal Trespass turn two and the next turn brainstorm, then doing as much damage again. Other ways Yuriko consistantly can deal damage is by having enough top-deck management to deal even more damage. And with unbockable creatures you can cheat out more ninjas which oviously benefits you. Even though it is clear we have different oppinions, I still think it is fun to have a discussion on the matter. :)

This list is compiled from a competitive point of view and in the upper tiers we compare the cEDH variants of the respective decks and here Yuriko often serves as a strong value engine (like Edric or Tymna for example). In contrast to Thrasios, Kenrith or Najeela, Yuriko isn't a direct wincon with which you can win in the first two rounds. Yuriko is simply very strong by nature, because you don't really have to pay command tax at all, which makes it difficult to interact with her. She also deals damage to every opponent AND you still draw many cards. BUT on the other side you can shut Yuriko out of the game if somebody get a Cursed Totem , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , Pithing Needle / Phyrexian Revoker or a Containment Priest on the board. If that happens, all of a sudden the deck is stuck with a lot of expensive spells and pretty useless ninjas.