Tree of Tales
(Tree of Tales isn't a spell.)
: Gain .
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Tree of Tales occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%
Tree of Tales Discussion
1 month ago
I think more important than mana (land and artifact where all the $$$ is spent), is Sylvan Tutor and Worldly Tutor will give you a higher consistency on T3/T4 infect wins. Unfortunately they aren't cheap unless they get reprints.
Harrow is an under-utilized ramp, it's benefit over something like Cultivate is that the lands come in untapped, so your net cost for that extra land is CMC1 (sac the land you just tapped of course) and you can play something else that turn!
I have been getting tired of Kemba, Kha Regent lack of performance as lately in my budget deck, often feels like a mis-utilization of equipment, unless I have the equip on-board to re-purpose for combat, and now that Balan, Wandering Knight is out of budget for my deck now, makes it even worse for me. Felt like Pride Sovereign 2.0. But then again, some games I have high success with both those cats in my budget league with the go-wide they provide, so really can't exclude either.
Has a cohesive strategy, should be out to early aggro, has a couple built in mid-range ability to win, good lifegain. I would assume it's pretty fun to play too.
1 month ago
Thanks for all the discussion, glad you liked the deck enough to tweak and innovate it, I've been trying but as you can see it's still not quite there yet.
I like Kaheera, the Orphanguard, I actually play a Nethroi, Apex of Death brawl deck with it as the companion. Questing Beast is good with Kaheera, the Orphanguard and can hit planeswalkers, but he doesn't work with Arahbo, Roar of the World even though he LOOKS like a cat to me! Also, Nissa, Who Shakes the World creates Elemental creatures, so it's also not bad, Auspicious Starrix was also been okay, but in Commander all are a bit too slow, plus Auspicious Starrix only good because my brawl commander and things like Migratory Greathorn can trigger him, so nothing too exciting there. The +1 isn't quite a bit to get to a kill with infect, so have to decide with the changes to the companion rule, if it's still worth it, I like the flavor of it though, and it's about having fun as much as the pursuit of winning when your starting with Arahbo, Roar of the World as the commander anyway!
Earthcraft + Squirrel Nest has challenges too, but I like the flavor. That is 1) They are enchantments, which we really only have a couple good ones, Enlightened Tutor, Idyllic Tutor and Sterling Grove, usually I pull Sylvan Library as soon as I can and pay the 8 life a turn to cycle through cards, but for you, you need 2/3 tutors to get there so I might just go straight for combo pieces. Sterling Grove isn't highly exciting, but it can also protect your combo pieces too. Unfortunately Concordant Crossroads can't even get it there, because the Squirrel's are tapped.
TzickyT is right, Heliod, Sun-Crowned + Walking Ballista is still mana intensive, and doesn't go off quickly enough. I usually rely on early Infect to take out the Grixis () player first to avoid early Thassa's Oracle win. If there are several Fish-Consul deck's it's kind of hopeless as I haven't built in any Fish-interaction (like Hushbringer or Tithe). If you can hit the early win-con decks, I can often ramp/resolve the Heliod, Sun-Crowned and take them out. I'm usually not the biggest threat, often needs other to go for the win and get Counterspell too.
I don't have another viable win-con in the cat, T5-7 usually just rely on Stonehewer Giant to pull me what I need to eliminate, protection from sword and Grafted Exoskeleton for example. is a challenge because have no way, but rarely see in commander.
Mox Opal is reasonable replace for Birds of Paradise, don't forget Ancient Den + Tree of Tales are artifacts, and Inkmoth Nexus can become one in a pinch too. Here's the real challenge though Hypergeometric Calc you're only 13.6% to have 3 artifacts on T1 (8 cards drawn), but really 3 aren't T1 viable (Grafted and Swords), so it's more like 8.3%. T2 only 18.2%. T3 23.2%. So have to evaluate how many games are going beyond that and how far, otherwise Mox Opal going to be a dead draw too many games. We don't really tutor artifacts either beyond equipment once we're established. Steelshaper's Gift.
Rhonas the Indomitable is good because I find I multi-trigger his ability, where Arahbo, Roar of the World, I rarely use his secondary ability. Not sure what to do there, may just have rely on other tactics. Approach of the Second Sun is way way way to slow, don't do that.
Hunter's Insight I've had success with because it's instant and draws a lot of cards, Lifecrafter's Bestiary (mana sponge and we're not creature heavy), and Momentous Fall (better but still a light cost intensive CMC4+sac). Puresteel Paladin for me still needs more AF support to, sometimes, he doesn't activate his second ability which is unacceptable.
Greenwarden of Murasa is good late game, but I might go with the pressure of a Questing Beast that hits for 5 and nails a planeswalker over that late of a play. Plus what's he pulling back, your Infect, at that point probably won't connect with combat damage anyway?
With Chord of Calling you can still do your best to resolve a Felidar Sovereign at EOT to win, but I found I didn't have enough creatures to get it off quick enough too. I know I'm just stating problems, unfortunately, still working on solving them myself (or abandoned them). Emerald Medallion is not bad because it adds to your AF count, but problem is the Infect creature is and the double-strike is except Berserk but it doesn't help with that anyway!!
Bronzehide Lion I find too mana spongy too, saving mana for the wrong reasons, but he's recursive, so I don't unlike him haha. If your going Kaheera, the Orphanguard might consider King of the Pride, but I'm meh on him as well. Need some strong cats!
I do have a Cat tribal budget (for $50 commander league) Mirri, Little Kid Aggro, depending on how budget your budget is TzickyT, as I mentioned this one is restricted budget so it has some interesting card choices to keep under budget, games have an hour time limit too, so that also drove several aggressive vs. defensive choices as well.
Knixx, I'll go through your full list tomorrow, and see if I can think of anything that might work. Since you already have Earthcraft, feel there must be a secondary interaction to abuse it as well you could leverage.
Thanks for the discussion, appreciated, I'll add Earthcraft to my Alternative Synergies Excluded so others can see it as well. The Great Henge is draw and an AF but not super helpful for Mox Opal, but with the Earthcraft I feel drawing for each Squirrel (which is a 2/2) could also draw into an enabler (untap and creatures get haste and +x/+x where x is the number of attacking creatures, something like that, there must be in , and since you draw into it every time), problem is, can't make infinite Squirrel then because you draw out, but if some way to win with like 50 Squirrels, a win is a win you know. Lemme thing on it lol.
1 month ago
mrb0jangles2186 I dont know if you would consider adding them, but 5 of the 6 artifact lands, would help play into the Akiri buffs :)
1 month ago
Pretty solid list so far, I have a few suggestions though. First and foremost, if you haven't checked out the cEDH decklist database, I recommend it. If you're truly wanting to get in to cEDH, then that is a good outlet for deck brewing. There are a bunch of cards in your list that are solid picks for a Kinnan deck, but there are also some that aren't up to snuff with the meta, but that's not a necessarily bad thing. Competitive EDH is about play the most powerful cards in the your color pie to achieve your overall win condition and to do it as efficient and consistent as possible. Kinnan is quite new and people are still trying to find the best way to brew the deck, but his strategy is undoubtedly proactive, so we have to try to overwhelm our opponents as fast as possible.
Here are the cards in your deck that you just don't see in the cEDH meta. Not a bad thing, just something to consider.
Your mana dorks are higher in CMC that the meta heavy mana dorks. This puts them being cast usually around turn two, which is when you want to be casting Kinnan.
Arcum's Astrolabe - It's just way too circumstantial, especially when you only have 6 snow lands in the deck. This card would be dead in your hand most of the time. There are also better mana rocks.
Mind Stone has been sub-par for a while. In cEDH, you want to get plenty of mana as soon as possible so you can start setting up for win quickly. This is why Grim Monolith and Mana Vault are very prevalent in the meta. They are net positive mana rocks that come in quickly.
Whir of Invention and Blue Sun's Zenith are on the cusp of being played in the meta and not, mostly Blue Sun's Zenith as it's used to help draw the deck after getting infinite mana. Usually you see these more in mono blue decks because they have plenty of blue to pay the non-generic mana and can go big with the X cost, however, once you leave mono blue it's very difficult to keep up mana for interaction after casting these and usually when X is greater than 2, it's worth someone countering it. If they're countered, the feel bads set in as you're now 5-6 mana behind. I would suggest cutting at least Whir of Inventions for a cantrip like Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain that nets you cards for cheap.
Force of Vigor - It's not bad, I've seen a few decks run it that are more on the control side, but Kinnan is trying to be more proactive than reactive. Blue has some of the best removal in the game for cheap. Maybe consider a Chain of Vapor. That way if there is a problematic card for you on the board such as Cursed Totem or Linvala, Keeper of Silence, you can hit it regardless of what it is for one mana regardless of whose turn it is.
There are a few suggestions I'd like to make for you to add that are practically staples for most of the cEDH Kinnan decks:
Seedborn Muse to help you use your commander more and acquire an overwhelming board state.
Right now, if you were to play a game with this list, I wouldn't be afraid of you activating Kinnan because there's nothing that will severely impact the game. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is in a lot of the other cEDH decks because getting this guy on the field is detrimental to every opponent's strategy. I suggest you get a higher creature count and put more scary things in the deck. You'll whiff a lot with on activations with a creature count that low.
Here is a link to my current Kinnan build that has been assembling win (in a vaccum) very consistently between turns 3 and 4: Kinnan Activations cEDH
4 months ago
Ah, my bad. Didn't see putrefy on my first glance. Underrealm Lich is definitely a great card I forgot to mention, glad you popped him in. I greatly respect dropping Mindslaver from the deck (it is a mean card that no one likes to be targeted by) but I will say Glissa + Mindslaver + Forbidden Orchard is kinda her bread and butter combo. Really unique one that hurts to leave out but if you can bring yourself to, more power to you.
Didn't think I'd be able to get you to get Nemesis Mask. I guess everyone has a pet card, I'm no exception to that. :)
I'll be around if you ever want to talk more about the decklist. Keep on brewin'!
5 months ago
Love the Glissa deck! I have one of my own that focuses on storm, if you're interested; Glissa, Artifact Storm
I would recommend putting the black and green artifact lands into this deck just to bump artifact numbers up and have lands that you can get back from the graveyard too.
5 months ago
I do not think that Arcbound worker is necessary - swap the 4 Darksteel citadels for 4 Tree of Tales and add 4 Carapace Forger. If you feel the need for more artifacts, swap 1 battle rage for Ichor Wellspring.
5 months ago
You are welcome. I normally get more lukewarm responses from my in-depth analysis, so its refreshing to receive praise. I've taken another look at this bad boy, and here are the specific changes I would make, with a decent budget in mind (ofc Imperial Seal would be a great include but there are cheaper avenues to explore first).
I would advise thinking about the chromatic pieces another way. Its color fixing AND a draw AND metalcraft for , and you get repeat value from Glissa if there is nothing better to grab immediately (if there's a boardwipe, or you aren't getting pieces blown off the board, or you are able to continually snipe dorks/bears/commanders with Ulvenwald + Glissa). Even without Glissa, you've basically made yourself into a 97 card deck. With Glissa, you have a cheap ": draw a card" engine. It turns all your kill spells into cantrips, letting you dig faster to the combo, and grind out games that go longer. It also plays EXTREMELY well with any topdeck tutors, like Vampiric Tutor. I think there's a strong case for inclusion, but I can also see this list is chock-o-block full.
As far as the Sword. Its a nice card, but its mostly only helping you when you're already ahead. If you can't get an attacker to hit a player, you're not getting anything for paying mana to cast + equip. It also requires that you have a creature on board to get the uses out of it, which means you're slowed by casting + summoning sickness if someone else board wipes. Its a delayed slow reusable card, and its a reusable dork killer, both are unreliable for getting the triggers. Compare this to Jitte. Jitte gets triggers off ANY combat damage, and you get far more out of the triggers from Jitte. The -1/-1 until EOT is much better removal, and if something has bigger than 2 toughness you can always hold the counters. The 2 life refuels you when Confidant and other draw effects slurp you into danger range. The card draw is VERY nice, but being unreliable really makes me favor Jitte here. Of course I think the best choice would be Sword of Feast and Famine.
Grim Monolith is going to be outperformed by an elf here. Consider if either is in your opening hand. With an elf, you spend 1 mana on turn 1 to have 3 colored mana on turn 2. With Monolith, you spend 2 mana on turn 2 to have 3 colorless mana on turn 2. Monolith is expensive to untap, and you run no ways to artifically sacrifice Monolith to recur it untapped, or to untap it. You aren't running Monolith for an infinite combo either, which is another reason it is usually slotted.
I really think Exploration Burgeoning Azusa, Lost but Seeking Ramunap Excavator Wasteland and Ghost Quarter are a very powerful choice for stax. It means you will have to drop slots elsewhere though, which might require some more rethinking or reassembling of the deck. This also opens further lines and slots, such as Crop Rotation into Inventors' Fair to get Crucible of Worlds to replay Inventors' Fair to continue digging up pieces.
I also really think the chromatic + baubles have value here. Turns removal into cantrips, lets you play the longer value game.
I would advise you to investigate artifact based combos. You have artifact recursion in the command zone. If a piece gets blown out, you still have it in reach throughout the whole game until it is exiled. Currently, your combos are enchantment + enchantment and enchantment + artifact. Your combos also suffer from either requiring an untap stap (to get rid of summoning sickness), or causing each opponent to take 1 damage. Simply put, they are not instant wins. You're giving other opponents the ability to draw/play answers to the board and disassemble your win.