|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Premium Deck Series: Graveborn (GRV)||Rare|
|Time Spiral "Timeshifted" (TSB)||Rare|
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Creature — Nightmare Horror
When Faceless Butcher enters the battlefield, exile target creature other than Faceless Butcher.
When Faceless Butcher leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control.
Faceless Butcher Discussion
1 week ago
I've got a different Protean Hulk line. Hulk grabs Phyrexian Delver and Viscera Seer . Delver returns Hulk, Seer sacs hulk to grab Mikaeus, the Unhallowed . Seer sacs Delver, Delver returns with undead and returns Hulk, Seer sacs hulk to grab Yawgmoth, Thran Physician and Blood Artist , Hulk returns with undead. Yawgmoth sacs Blood Artist and puts a -1/-1 counter on Hulk (removing the +1/+1 counter), Blood Artist returns with a +1/+1. Yawgmoth sacs Hulk and puts a -1/-1 counter on Blood Artist. Repeat for infinite damage, all your 6-cmc creatures on the battlefield, and infinite card draw. It can be tweaked to add some sort of protection with Faceless Butcher . You might should include a card that can shuffle your graveyard into your library depending on the number of opponents because yawgmoth forces you to draw, or you could grab another combo with the undying hulk tutors instead of using Yawgmoth's ability to finish the job. You could tutor for a persist creature.
10 months ago
Without a sacrifice outlet Faceless Butcher is fairly weak, as the creature will just come back later. The only sacrifice outlet I could find was Hell's Caretaker, so I would consider cutting Faceless for more room.
10 months ago
As an extra note, the real thing to watch out for is people getting rid of Faceless Butcher while its ETB is still on the stack. If that happens, you get the Oblivion Ring trick, where Butcher's LTB will resolve first, returning nothing because nothing has been exiled yet. Then the ETB resolves, exiling whatever you targeted with it permanently.
This is the case with any card that has the "Exile" and "Return" clauses as separate triggers. If they're manipulated so that the LTB resolves before the ETB, whatever the ETB targeted is just gone. If, however, you use it as intended so that the ETB resolves before the LTB is put on the stack, as in your combo, it'll work fine.
10 months ago
Short answer: you're going to need another repeatable way to blink Faceless Butcher to go infinite.
Here's the breakdown:
You cast Wispweaver Angel. Angel enters, ETB targets Butcher. Butcher leaves (LTB goes on stack), then comes back (ETB goes on stack, targeting Angel). ETB resolves, exiling the Angel. LTB then resolves, and Crow comes back.
Then you use Aminatou, the Fateshifter's -1 to blink Butcher. Butcher leaves (LTB trigger), then comes back (ETB trigger, targeting Crow for lack of another target). ETB resolves, Crow leaves. LTB then resolves, and the Angel comes back, and its ETB goes on the stack targeting the Butcher.
Angel trigger resolves, and the Butcher leaves (LTB trigger), then comes back (ETB trigger, targeting Angel). ETB resolves, and the Angel is exiled. LTB resolves, and the Crow comes back.
This is where the cycle stops, because Storm Crow can't blink Faceless Butcher, and you're out of activations for Aminatou (unless you're running Oath of Teferi, but then you only get one more cycle). So it's not infinite yet. You'll need another creature that can blink Faceless Butcher so that you can keep bouncing it and returning it.
If you add in Altar of the Brood, with the above setup you're going to mill 8 cards due to 8 counts of permanents entering the battlefield under your control. If you can go infinite, then you'll mill everyone out, and each of them will lose as soon as they have to draw a card.
10 months ago
Sorry boys, this is gonna be a long one. I know it says to ask questions briefly and plainly, but my brain already hurts and I definitely need help.
I'm trying to build an Aminatou, the Fateshifter commander deck that abuses things like Wispweaver Angel and Faceless Butcher to make infinite combos, with each exiling the other until the end of time.
Turns out, though, the stack gets funky when you have Faceless Butcher leaving the battlefield before its trigger resolves.
Here's an example, so you can get an idea of why I'm so confused. Let's say I have Aminatou, the Fateshifter and Storm Crow on the battlefield, and Faceless Butcher and Wispweaver Angel in my hand. My opponents are all F6'd. I cast Faceless Butcher. He enters, and I target Storm Crow with the trigger. I wave bye-bye to the crow. I then cast Wispweaver Angel, and it enters. I target Faceless Butcher with the trigger. Faceless Butcher leaves the battlefield, and Storm Crow comes back. Wispweaver Angel isn't done resolving though; Faceless Butcher comes back and puts its own trigger on the stack. I target Wispweaver Angel. The angel leaves, and the stack is empty. I use Aminatou, the Fateshifter's -1 ability and blink Faceless Butcher. Faceless Butcher leaves, and triggers Wispweaver Angel to enter again.
This is as far as I can go before I stop knowing what happens.
My questions are these: How do the triggers play out in the above scenario? If I add an Altar of the Brood to the above board state, can I mill everyone out and win? And if so, how?
11 months ago
As for Faceless Butcher, you can cast it just fine without a valid target for its ability, because its ability doesn't go on the stack while you're casting it. You cast the Butcher and, as long as no one else counters it or something, it will enter the battlefield. Then its ETB ability will trigger and you will attempt to choose a target for it. With no legal targets, the ability will "fizzle" and be removed from the stack, but the Butcher is still on the battlefield.
And in general, planeswalker abilities are written in such a way that you should always be able to activate a plus ability, even if you get no effect from it, so you can actually increase your planeswalker's loyalty. This is why you can target a player with no cards in hand for a discard ability, or target a tapped creature for a "tap target creature" ability, and so on. Planeswalkers like Garruk, Apex Predator will give you an alternate plus ability to use if one of them must absolutely have a valid target in order to be activated. One of the few that I can think of where this isn't true is Koth of the Hammer, where if there are no mountains on the battlefield, you can't actually use his plus ability. However, if there are mountains but they're all untapped, you can still use him because you can still "untap" a tapped mountain.
11 months ago
Second, it helps to add some paragraphs. When formatting on this site, you have to have a full line of "empty" space to distinguish between paragraphs.
Third, you can play Faceless Butcher when no other creatures are in play. It's not ideal, but it can still be done.
Fourth, you could count to a million in a lifetime pretty easily. Count to a thousand you can probably do this in an hour (that's only one number every 3 seconds)--you'd only have to do that a thousand times. Now, you couldn't do it in one sitting, but it's still possible to complete well within a lifetime.
Now, on to the actual question:
Shortcuts are defined by Rule 720 (generally) and Tournament Rule 4:2 (for sanctioned play). Per rule 720, a player may announce they are taking a shortcut--such as quickly repeating a loop a set number of times. In response, you have two general options:
Allow the shortcut to move forward unimpeded.
Say you are going to interrupt the shortcut (i.e. Counterspell), and thus decide the loop terminates at a point of your choosing.
While the implementation of shortcuts, and the exact manner of the shortcut is "largely informal", the rules clearly establish they are a part of the game.
Thus, you would really be in the wrong to prevent a loop for no reason other than "I want to waste everyone else's time and stubbornly cling to a stalemate, even though, by all rights, I should lose this game."
At any point in the game, the player with priority may suggest a shortcut by describing a sequence of game choices, for all players, that may be legally taken based on the current game state and the predictable results of the sequence of choices. This sequence may be a non-repetitive series of choices, a loop that repeats a specified number of times, multiple loops, or nested loops, and may even cross multiple turns. It can’t include conditional actions, where the outcome of a game event determines the next action a player takes. The ending point of this sequence must be a place where a player has priority, though it need not be the player proposing the shortcut.
Each other player, in turn order starting after the player who suggested the shortcut, may either accept the proposed sequence, or shorten it by naming a place where they will make a game choice that’s different than what’s been proposed. (The player doesn’t need to specify at this time what the new choice will be.) This place becomes the new ending point of the proposed sequence.
Faceless Butcher occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%