|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Dark Ascension (DKA)||Rare|
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Flayer of the Hatebound
Creature — Devil
Undying (When this creature dies, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it.
Whenever Flayer of the Hatebound or another creature enters the battlefield from your graveyard, that creature deals damage equal to its power to target creature or player.
Flayer of the Hatebound Discussion
4 weeks ago
With the new War of The Spark set I think I found some options that makes this deck better. -1 Flayer of the Hatebound even though I only made this deck because of this card. I realize it's not a very good card due it's mana cost. Hurt my feelings but I still kept 1 for fringe top end plays. -2 Butcher Ghoul I needed room for +3 Dreadhorde Butcher I feel as if this card is better in pretty much every way accept for eating removal. It will help apply pressure faster and can be used as removal itself. -4 Fling +4 Heartfire this card will be better than Fling in every situation except for use on a 5 power Flayer of the Hatebound so I swapped them.
1 month ago
I've been trying to remember how I built my old Marchesa deck because I never got around to writing the list down before taking the list apart.
I remember having a small Wizards package. Sage of Fables was important because it made Marchesa enter the battlefield with a counter already on it. Puppeteer Clique and Glen Elendra Archmage became infinite sac fodder with the Sage out. Viscera Seer was one of my sac outlets. Snapcaster Mage for reusing spells. And Vedalken AEthermage could tutor up any of those cards.
Carrion Feeder was one of my favorite sac outlets because being able to put counters on itself made it hard for opponents to get rid of.
I won by either setting up an infinite sac combo that killed with Goblin Bombardment , grinding opponents down with Flayer of the Hatebound , or creating a massive board by stealing opponent's dead creatures with Sepulchral Primordial .
1 month ago
There are a few cards that stand out as being a bit odd to me.
I think that Bontu's Last Reckoning is a rough card to play in a multiplayer game. Even with 8 mana rocks, not being to untap lands the turn after casting it is rough because you run the risk of quickly falling behind your opponents. Marchesa does take away some of the risk by bringing back your creatures while your opponents' will theoretically have none of theirs left. Still, I don't like the idea of denying myself even just 3 mana like that.
I like Reins of Power , but when I experimented with it in a Marchesa deck that I built a while back I found that it was often awkward to work with. If I had any free sac outlet creatures I would have to get rid of them before using it, and if the chosen opponent found a way of killing the creatures with counters while controlling Marchesa they would come back under his control. In the end I cut the card because I just found it to not be what I wanted tot draw most of the time. There are some blow-out plays that it can help you pull off but in the end I replaced it with Fire Covenant .
Karn, the Great Creator doesn't really do much for the deck. I do see that you have a sideboard but there are a lot of groups that don't allow the use of sideboards, so that part of the card is pretty meta dependent. I'm also assuming that you are running it as a stax effect for some of the other decks you play against. As long as your group allows sideboards I guess it works as a tutor, but if that's the case you may want to include one or two more silver-bullet artifacts that you would be able to tutor for. Duplicant , as a creature that can exile indestructible creatures, would probably be one of my first picks. Nevinyrral's Disk as a way of dealing with enchantments would also be a high pick for me.
Rekindling Phoenix strikes me as having minimal uses in terms of utility, although it does interact a with Flayer of the Hatebound 's effect. Aside from that, it is mostly just a body for combat that can potentially come back on its own after a wrath effect. I would probably look to cut it for a more relevant cards as you develop the deck, but if you ended up adding cards like Warstorm Surge and Skullclamp that would make the Phoenix a little more keepable as a potential value engine that doesn't rely on Marchesa being out.
1 month ago
Thanks for the insight, I will definetely consider adding Flayer of the Hatebound . However, he is single card, and I fear that will not be consistent enough. Sac outlet-wise I have Viscera Seer , Grimgrin, Corpse-Born , Yahenni, Undying Partisan , God-Eternal Bontu , Phyrexian Tower and even Bolas's Citadel , I feel like that is plenty. Also, I dont want to make aristocrat-style deck, that is why I did not put Judith, the Scourge Diva and fling sac outlets.
If you believe some cards do not belong, feel free to tell me.
1 month ago
It's kind of hard to offer suggestions given your budget restrictions and not knowing what cards you have access to, but if I was to recommend one card for you it would be Flayer of the Hatebound . With a free sacrifice outlet on the board you can sac it once to have it return thanks to Undying and deal 5 damage to a creature or player, then sac it during the second main phase to have it come back thanks to Marchesa at the beginning of the next end step. When Marchesa brings it back it will deal 4 damage + damage equal to the power of all the other creatures that Marchesa might be bringing back that turn. You can do that double punch with the Flayer on each opponent's turn as well, preferably at the end of their second main phase to limit an opponent's chances of being able to exile the Flayer from your graveyard.
If you get enough creatures returning from the graveyard it can sometimes just wipe out all of your opponents' creatures or straight up kill a player. You can also send some of that damage at your own face to help keep your life total below everyone else's. As long as you keep a free sac outlet on the board the Flayer can be really hard for opponents to get rid of.
And best of all, the card is dirt cheap to buy. The amount of power it gives the deck for such a small investment is pretty nuts. It might mean including a couple more free sac outlets for the sake of consistency though. I like Goblin Bombardment , but that's almost $5.
2 months ago
Strangelove, Thanks for the compliment! I'll be sure to check your deck out too! I ran Flayer of the Hatebound when I was testing the deck out to see if I wanted to put any money into it. I like how it performs, but the mana cost is pretty steep. It also only counts if the creatures come from my graveyard, whereas Marchesa, the Black Rose usually takes creatures from my opponents' graveyards. Similar deal with Geralf's Mindcrusher . Really cool card, but the cost is a little too steep for the effect. Think I might need to add that one to my The Scarab God deck though, so thanks for the recommendation.
Brine Shaman is pretty cool, but I dislike the fact that I have to tap it to sac a creature. I try to keep my sac outlets repeatable, in case I need to evacuate my field for whatever reason.
Molten Primordial was alright when I first played the deck, but the cost wasn't worth the effect. More often than not, only one or two players have creatures worth stealing. Tried Mob Rule and wasn't a fan of the performance it gave. Maybe I was using it wrong.
Abyssal Gatekeeper , Fleshbag Marauder & Co. are great for keeping opponents' fields empty, but that isn't necessarily what I want. I steal my opponent's Sun Titan (or whatever) using Portent of Betrayal (or another stealing card), swing at the opponent with the highest life total to trigger Marchesa, the Black Rose 's Dethrone ability, sac Sun Titan to the Phyrexian Altar , Ashnod's Altar , etc., and then the Sun Titan is mine for keeps! I do make thorough use of the Abyssal Gatekeeper , Fleshbag Marauder , etc. in my Meren of Clan Nel Toth deck, and they're absolutely great in that one! Just not too sure if they fit the theme here.
Graft seems like a neat idea, but I'm not sure if it'd fit in with the rest of the deck too well. Cytoplast Manipulator would be the only Graft card I might consider. It seems pretty fragile, to be honest.
Thanks so much for all of the suggestions! I'll be sure to check out your deck and see if I can make any recommendations as well.
2 months ago
Hey Saint, I haven't had enough time to look over your deck enough yet to give detailed suggestions of cuts.
Some advice however is cut cards that don't give repeatable value. Key is repeatable. Creatures should be the priority because they are best with Marchesa. But this doesn't mean play 40+ creatures, still want to have a nice balance between card types. 30-35 creatures, 36 lands with 8x mana rocks is something to consider.
Captivating Crew is a creature who's ability is a repeatable steal creature effect. Crew is also a mana sink which is a good thing to have in Commander. Zealous Conscripts is also a creature, she can give you possible repeatable value of stealing your opponents permanents. These are more powerful than other cards that give you the same one shot effect such as Act of Treason , Threaten , Traitorous Blood , Slave of Bolas , etc. These cards are fine if you have reliable ways to recur them to cast them again, but you don't have that. You don't really need them because you have cards like Crew and Conscripts.
Mark of Mutiny is the only card with this type of one shot effect I would keep because it's only three mana and also puts a counter on the creature you steal which is good with Marchesa. Don't misunderstand some budget cards that give you a one shot effect are excellent, worth playing, such as tutors ( Gamble ), instant removal ( Chaos Warp ), counterspells ( Arcane Denial ) and low mana cost draw spells ( Brainstorm ), but these cards need to be powerful if you're only getting to use them once. In fact consider adding all of these?
The next place to look for cuts are the four and five drops since there's a lot of them and you don't need them all. All the four and five drops are good cards, but some are better than others. I honestly think you can consider ending the creature curve at six drops with Flayer of the Hatebound . The majority of the power level here is coming from the four and five drops. Can keep Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker as the top end since he's repeatable removal and steal your opponents creatures. The avg. CMC of your deck is currently 3.6 which is in my opinion high. Try to get this number less than 3.0 for smoother game play.
I don't think cards with graft in Grixis colors are worth playing. Graft as an ability for the +1/+1 counters synergies is lackluster. Consider Olivia, Mobilized for War ? She can be a repeatable source of +1/+1 counters for creatures as long as you have cards to discard.
More later :)
2 months ago
You don't have to use Sage + Clique + sac outlet as a game winning infinite combo :)
Just being able to steal all your opponents creatures from their own graveyards and attack your opponents with those creatures is amusing and powerful. Could this combo be game winning? Sure if you do it in the late game and all your opponents have a lot of creatures in their graveyards, but it's not a sure thing that it will win you the game. It's essentially just a powerful play.
Even if you get to steal only one or two creatures this is still excellent value. At any time you can end the infinite sac loop of Clique by choosing to not sac her. Best case is you would do this when your opponents no longer have any creatures in their graveyards to steal... At any time you can also remake the loop as long as you have Sage + Clique + sac outlet on the battlefield.
River Kelpie is also good with the Clique combo to draw cards, even your whole deck if you want to. To stop drawing stop sacing Clique ;) If your playgroup is against game winning combos then make sure you can break the loop you have created which is thankfully easy to do with Clique.
Goblin Bombardment can instead of targeting a player can target a creature to do the damage this means you don't have to kill your opponents with Bombardment. Bombardment is also a two drop no mana cost sac outlet which is very good. Zulaport can gain you life which is helpful especially because Unspeakable Symbol is an important card. Ashnods will make infinite colorless mana, but you don't have any cards that can take real advantage of this to win the game therefore use the combo to make some mana to help to cast some cards and then end the loop. It doesn't have to be a game ending play.
Flayer of the Hatebound + Sage + Ashnods is infinite draw and damage to all your opponents because Hatebound has undying and Sage can remove the +1/+1 counter from Hatebound to draw a card. Use the two mana generated by Ashnods to pay for Sage's ability. This combo can be infinite, but like Clique you can break the loop by choosing to not sac Hatebound. Like Bombardment Hatebound can also use the damage to target creatures instead of a player which is helpful if you don't want to kill your opponents.
Glen Elendra Archmage is the other Wizard with persist that can be used instead of Clique in the combo, but she's an expensive price card and not as fun as Clique :) Another option to make it so all your creatures are Wizards and have persist is including these two cards: Arcane Adaptation and Cauldron of Souls . Arcane makes all your creatures Wizards, even creatures in your library and Souls can give all your creatures persist until EOT, but it's a another five drop... With Adaptation, Sage becomes amazing as a +1/+1 counter engine since any creature that ETB will get a counter since it's a Wizard.
Flayer of the Hatebound occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%