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|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Mythic Rare|
|Avacyn Restored (AVR)||Mythic Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Mythic Rare|
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Legendary Creature — Demon
Pay 7 life: Draw seven cards.
Commander Recommendations Start Commander Deck
Latest as Commander
1 day ago
Hi again realsoupersand,
Had to fly out to Ottawa, ON in Canada for a bit, so back in action.
50% of the time, I win with my primary win-con, which is Buried Alive + Reanimate , generally between T1-4 depending on how much tutoring and mana ramps I have available. It's CMC4, which happens on T1 occassionally, T2/T3 more realistically.
Karmic Guide is a critical component of that combo, also, yes she is playable with Kaalia of the Vast . Also enables Razaketh, the Foulblooded from the graveyard, and provides for sac/tutor. It's usually never a dead draw, and at CMC5 is still playable from hand, on occasion if the game is going on, and the Protection: with Flying also has assisted occasionally. Other than her obvious CMC as just a recursion tool, she's generally been good, and a requirement for the primary win-con.
Angel of Despair is just a Vindicate for CMC7, its ridiculous and only 5/5 flying. However, it's what I ALWAYS Tainted Pact to when Show and Tell + Omniscience , unless they have Leyline of Anticipation it's "usually" good enough. I can tutor Anguished Unmaking , however, I have to give priority up with an Omniscience on the table, so it's far too late by then. Can also destroy other random threats if needed too. She's borderline for sure. Red Elemental Blast is too slow in this case.
Angelic Arbiter was answering the Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge but now it's always Kess, Dissident Mage . Also for Tooth and Nail type encounters (eg: Craterhoof Behemoth ) or any type of haste/recursion. All together stops a few. I usually just put 1 response to any situation, because I just tutor the exclusive solution needed.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope protects against MLD type situations, but she's not difficult to remove anyway, everyone's removal deals with her no problem. If she buys me an extra turn though, it's worth it. Can also put a player on a turn timer or make them act before prepared (no Force of Will for example), sometimes... Not the strongest for sure. Or like a The Gitrog Monster looping destroy maybe...
Balefire Dragon is again, just to solve specific issues or eliminate high value ground targets. Like the others, Tainted Pact to hand whenever, a situation calls for it. I tried to cut back on creature controls (ex: Damnation ) just because its not a creature world, but often creatures can be enablers.
Baneslayer Angel cut, served no purpose other than lifelink for the Hatred but the CMC5 was too much, and only removed a single opponent. Serra Ascendant T1 "usually" puts enough pressure on 1 player (usually )), who is now on a turn timer, spending life for tutoring becomes harder, and sometimes waste time removing it. Statistically found, I was usually nearly 1 turn earlier to win with Serra Ascendant , plus overcharges me for an early Necropotence or Razaketh, the Foulblooded win or Doom Whisperer win.
Phyrexian Arena is tough, high CMC, no return. It still the second highest played card in commander, and I don't know how else to draw? Mardu is a drawing nightmare. Have to think on it, how to deal with it but agreed, same issue is with Bloodgift Demon . I've had Skyline Despot recommended has a same turn impact (draw at EOT), but also, might be ramping oppponents draw too, especially if I have no way to reconnect on attack as Skyline Despot doesn't have trample.
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight has the added benefit of removing 1-damage win-cons like Impact Tremors , Blasting Station , Goblin Bombardment , Dragon Tempest (with 1 dragon), Etc... Also puts pressure on. Usually just for a specific application though. I think my interaction package is more similar to a Thoughtseize type application, where if I can't win early, I tutor what I need to address the specific threats, instead of using Instant spell to do them? If that makes sense. Gisela, the Broken Blade i've cut.
Hellkite Tyrant was specifically answering an almost consistent Breya, Etherium Shaper deck. It's been a while since C16 set now, so definitely seeing it less and less. Might help with Teferi, Temporal Archmage or Urza, Lord High Artificer on occasion. It wasn't enough on it's own though, it also needed a Linvala, Keeper of Silence to go with it. Prior to this, I had nothing to compete with Breya, Etherium Shaper , had no way to win.
Lyra Dawnbringer is on my cut list now, might become the Sire Of Insanity or something like that. Mother of Runes works good with Master of Cruelties , also can protect Kaalia of the Vast , makes guys like Balefire Dragon unblockable too, or protects a Razaketh, the Foulblooded and becomes Tutor mana, or blocks an early Infect attack. Slow yes, but has some utility. Also can protect my Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker or Worldgorger Dragon causing me to win (instead of lose). It's borderline for sure, have to think about it. Aven Mindcensor feels good, looking for a way to include him as well as the Sire Of Insanity .
Steel Hellkite I tried for over a year, I would either, not be able to connect (no trample), or when I did, not enough mana to get the threat that I really needed to remove. I gave up on Steel Hellkite , also needs a Mother of Runes for support.
Ancient Tomb is back in, can't recall why I removed it. Think it screwed me one game with the colorless, but now that I've removed most of the colorless, it makes sense. Prismatic Vista isn't great, only 2 basics (can put in the snow's but for why), I like that it filters a land out (lower probability of drawing a land), but also destroys my mana-fixing as well, so agreed, unnecessary in this build, but feels weird.
I'm probably going to continue reducing CMC and reducing land counts as you've recommended, but needs some expensive 0-CMC rocks which I don't have, or some resource planning around alt. mana sources.
Overall goal is still to build for cEDH, understanding that consistency isn't going to push into more than a Tier-2.5/3 categorization, so I'll go over High Power again later lol.
Thinking about Interaction, I really don't want to go heavy into that with things like, Dismember or Lightning Bolt would rather let the opponents use their removal, and PRAY that I can sneak through a combo. If I combo T1 it has a fairly high success rate (other than a Pact of Negation which eliminated themselves) usually don't get stopped (Odd Force of Will or Swords to Plowshares here and there), T2 is still decently good, often others are still tutoring for a T3 win, but outside of T3 or beyond, usually I need to wait until someone tries to combo, and then is stopped, before I have a chance. I just go for it whenever I can though, increases winning % over trying to strategically go for it and being too late.
I think perhaps Red Elemental Blast or Pyroblast or both perhaps will be handy, Silence I wish it had Split Second (like Teferi's Protection ) because most combos don't have a "sorcery" speed interaction so doesn't stop. Can protect me on the turn I'm going for it like another Grand Abolisher but outside of that not highly useful. Will do some playtesting with it and see if it improves my completion % for combo and increases my combo win % because that's all that matters.
I decided not to go MLD, can Stax/MLD certainly is a strategy, but prefer just to ignore others, and just go for the win myself, win or lose. Plus I don't repopulate my hand nor ramp, so probably just slowing myself down instead of the opponents. Plus I don't have a Ravages of War so would require a financial commitment, would rather focus on finding a way to go for the win on T1-T3 more consistently.
I think if you found Kaalia of the Vast wasn't competitive using MLD before you dissolved that strategy, don't think it's the right course to go down either. Would rather try some out-of-the-box planning, and see if we can get her into a cEDH, which your comments are VERY helpful, and VERY appreciated. Think I've made some decent strides, still waiting for my card order to come in the mail so I can make some more cuts/adds to the deck!
I'll reply on high power shortly since it's lower priority, and hopefully you'll see my deck going in a stronger direction. Pushing that T1 probability up is key. I keep thinking there must be a T1 with Entomb and Goryo's Vengeance that I can do somehow? Razaketh, the Foulblooded would need another enabler, but there must be someone (like Griselbrand aka Griselbanned) to win with? Hmm.
2 days ago
jaymc1130: not well said at all.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd: every deck has win conditions. it is the condition by which the deck wins. burn decks absolutely play "win conditions". by the literal definition of the two words, "win conditions" are certainly NOT limited to "mana intensive" cards. do you even have a verifiable definition for "mana intensive"? you dont get to decide what is the "most intended" by the magic community. in fact in my own experiences, you're grossly wrong about what is "most intended". before you, i have literally never heard of anyone limiting the use of the term "win condition" to only control decks. i've seen decks win on turn 2 with Griselbrand . are they control decks? obviously not. but Griselbrand is their win condition. Tarmogoyf is a win condition. a win condition is literally any card or combo that a player plans to win the game with.
as you can see in the link, control decks are never specified.
2 days ago
jaymc1130: not well said at all.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd: every deck has win conditions. it is the condition by which the deck wins. burn decks absolutely play "win conditions". by the literal definition of the two words, "win conditions" are certainly NOT limited to "mana intensive" cards. you dont get to decide what is the "most intended" by the magic community. in fact in my own experiences, you're grossly wrong. before you, i have literally never heard of anyone limiting the use of the term "win condition" to only control decks. i've seen decks win on turn 2 with Griselbrand . are they control decks? obviously not. but Griselbrand is their win condition. Tarmogoyf is a win condition. a win condition is literally any card or combo that a player plans to win the game with.
as you can see in the link, control decks are never specified.
3 days ago
: i don't understand how people can look at an effect like this and say "it effectively costs...". 9 mana to cast is 9 mana to cast regardless of how many lands it untaps upon entering. to me, something that "effectively costs 6" is something that can actually be cast with 6 lands. this card "effectively costs" 9, but refunds 3 mana. thats not the same as "costing 6". and the cmc definitely matters. after a certain point, a high cmc just makes cards unplayable in certain formats. the only way to reliably get those cards into play is to "cheat" them into play with things like Through the Breach , and at that point they're competing directly against Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and other eldrazi titans, and possibly Griselbrand
3 days ago
i don't understand how people can look at an effect like this and say "it effectively costs...". 9 mana to cast is 9 mana to cast regardless of how many lands it untaps upon entering. to me, something that "effectively costs 6" is something that can actually be cast with 6 lands. this card "effectively costs" 9, but refunds 3 mana. thats not the same as "costing 6". and the cmc definitely matters. after a certain point, a high cmc just makes cards unplayable in certain formats. the only way to reliably get those cards into play is to "cheat" them into play with things like Through the Breach , and at that point they're competing directly against Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and other eldrazi titans, and possibly Griselbrand .
1 week ago
Mark Rosewater has said that if it ever comes down to flavor or mechanics, flavor wins.
I think we can ask the same question about legendary creatures. For example, at what cost can you justify a 7/7?
Well, if the creature costs like Griselbrand , sure. That's a very steep cost. It should be huge. Likewise, Deep-Slumber Titan has so many hurdles to overcome that the 4cmc for a 7/7 isn't that bad because it requires a lot of setup and work. Next there is Enormous Baloth , who is very easy to get out due to the lack of color restrictions, but also brings nothing you the table aside from a vanilla 7/7 body.
It's all about the number of colors on the card and the mechanics involved.
You can have a 5c Planeswalkers that costs just 5 mana and that's going to be a LOT harder to get out than Ugin, the Spirit Dragon who can be put into any deck.
So to answer your question, there really isn't one. It depends on a multitude of factors:
- What is the overall CMC
- How many colored symbols are there?
- How many different colors are there
- Is it a back / side character or the main character?
- What does the card ultimately want to do? E.G. what is the level of power it is designed to be at?
This is where R&D comes into play. A Planeswalker who has a CMC of 6 may feel okay bringing 5 to the board, but what if this newly designed Planeswalker also costs three colors? Perhaps our first Mardu Planeswalkers?
It's all about both design and perspective. You need to consider the environment it is being designed for, the way it is being designed, and who the design is representing.
1 week ago
For those who don't know the combo.
Turn 1 land neonate pass.
Turn 2 land or exile Simian spirit guide, sac neonate discard Griselbrand , reanimate with goryo.
Pay 7 draw 7. Pay 7 draw 7. Cast Nourishing Shoal exiling Ghalta, Primal Hunger . Keep paying 7 until u have enough Simian Spirit Guide and Desperate Ritual in hand to cast Through the Breach or a discard outlet and Manamorphose to get black mana for another goryos, reanimating Borborygmos Enraged .
Discard all lands in hand, win.
1 week ago
You won't face many surgicals. You should probably diversify your creatures and run more big beaters. Griselbrand is very good.
Griselbrand occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.44%
All decks: 0.06%