Creature — Dragon
Whenever a dragon you control attacks, create a 6/6 red Dragon creature token with flying.
Printings View all
|Ravnica Allegiance: Guild Kits (GK2)||Mythic Rare|
|Commander 2017 (C17)||Mythic Rare|
|Return to Ravnica (RTR)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Utvara Hellkite occurrence in decks from the last year
Latest Decks as Commander
Utvara Hellkite Discussion
1 month ago
Hey, you're very welcome. I like the changes you've made. You've asked many questions :) I will try to answer each one. In this comment I'll explain the Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo better with some unfortunate changes and I'll answer other questions in another comment later on.
I've given you incorrect information about the combo using Savage Ventmaw. The only way Savage can be part of this combo is if it's already on the battlefield and can attack not tutored for by Scion. You can't change Scion into Savage and then attack, make the 6 mana and then change into another Dragon with Scion. This not how Scion works instead you have to do all the changing into Dragons when you first activate Scion with many activations. If you want to change into multiple Dragons with Scion then you must do it all at the same time. When Scion changes into a Dragon it loses it's original ability to activate/change into a Dragon instead it has all the abilities as well as power/toughness of the Dragon it changed into.
You can get around this by taking advantage of the stack by putting many activations of Scion to change into different Dragons onto the stack and then resolve each trigger one at a time. Each activation is a trigger and when it resolves from the stack will change Scion into that Dragon therefore you can change many times which tutors for and puts many Dragons into your graveyard. This lets you stack many activations with Scion, but you must do it all at once for the combo. The last trigger you resolve Scion will become that Dragon until end of turn.
Taking Savage Ventmaw out of the combo it costs 7 mana. This 7 mana is not including paying 5 for Scion. Scion needs to be on the battlefield already and able to attack. If you want to do this combo with Scion the same turn you play it, if it has haste, then the combo is not worth it since it will cost 12 mana.
7 mana for the combo, this is how it's paid in order , for two activations of Scion and then to reanimate Bladewing with Teneb for a total of 7 mana:
- Attack with Scion.
- At Declare Blockers step pay activate Scion for Bladewing the Risen.
- While that trigger is on the stack, pay activate Scion for Teneb, the Harvester.
- Resolve first Scion trigger which puts Bladewing in your graveyard and resolve the second Scion trigger which puts Teneb in your graveyard.
- Scion is now Teneb, deal combat damage to a player with Teneb.
- Teneb's ability will trigger, resolve Teneb's trigger, pay and reanimate Bladewing.
- Bladewing ETB and reanimates Teneb.
- Scion is Teneb therefore the Legendary Rule will apply when real Teneb is reanimated.
- Choose real Teneb and remove Scion.
- You end up on the battlefield with Teneb and Bladewing with Scion in your graveyard.
The point of this combo is to tutor for and get Teneb onto the battlefield since then he can reanimate Dragons in your graveyard each attack after. The Legendary Rule prevents ending up with both Scion and Teneb on the battlefield because when Teneb is reanimated by Bladewing Scion is Teneb. When this happens the Legendary Rule goes into effect where as you must choose one of the Tenebs and other is removed from the battlefield/put into your graveyard. You will choose real Teneb and let Scion be removed since ending up with real Teneb is the reason you're doing the combo.
You don't want your opponent to block Scion because then Scion can change into Teneb and connect to do combat damage to a player to trigger Teneb. Even if your opponent doesn't block Scion there's still a stop at the Declare Blockers step where you can activate Scion. If opponent does block Scion which could kill Scion as Teneb then activate and change into a different Dragon who will not die in combat if blocked.
4 mana for the combo, this is how it's paid in order , for two activations of Scion and then how ever much you have available or 24 life.
Combo with Atarka:
- Before you attack pay activate Scion for Moltensteel Dragon.
- While that trigger is on the stack, pay activate Scion for Atarka, World Render.
- Resolve first Scion trigger change Scion into Moltensteel, but before you resolve the second Scion trigger activate Moltensteel's pump.
- Pay as much as you have or pay 2 life per activation.
- Activate 12 times that can be a total of 24 life to pump Scion's power +14.
- Resolve second Scion trigger, Scion becomes Atarka with 20 power/4 toughness.
- Attack with Scion who is Atarka gain double strike.
- Do 40 damage to an opponent.
Just like how you can manipulate the stack of triggers with Scion activations you can do that with Moltensteel since it's activation can be pay for at instant speed you can put activations on the stack and resolve them before you resolve the second Scion trigger to change into Atarka. Manipulating the stack means you can move triggers around and resolve them in whatever order you choose. In this case you manipulate the stack to resolve all the Moltensteel pump triggers before you resolve the second Scion trigger that turns Scion into Atarka.
With Atarka, World Render you have to activate Scion before you attack, but with Dragon Tyrant you don't have to because he has double strike and doesn't need to gain it by attacking. If using Tyrant you can change the order of the combo and do it all in combat. You first attack with Scion, if he isn't blocked at Declare Attackers step activate Scion twice first for Moltensteel and then for Tyrant. Resolve first Scion trigger for Moltensteel, then pump, then resolve second Scion trigger for Tryant.
Using Atarka with this combo you give away what you are doing because you must activate Scion before you attack to gain double strike from Atarka. Tyrant you can be more sneaky since you can activate Scion in combat at the last possible time after you know that Scion is not going to be blocked for a lethal Tyrant hit.
Scion doesn't keep abilities of Dragons you change into. After you change into a Dragon Scion loses the abilities of the Dragon before it. The ability that Scion can use is the ability of the Dragon it currently is and only that Dragon. The exception to this is if Scion gains an ability such as double strike from Atarka, World Render or if you pump or add +1/+1 counters to Scion because he's gaining those effects thus they stay with Scion even if it changes into another Dragon.
The way you activate Scion is how the Dragon you want to change into ability reads. If you want Scion to be Ojutai, Soul of Winter then you must change into her before you attack since her ability triggers when attack which means at Declare Attackers step after Combat Phase begins. Atarka, World Render and Utvara Hellkite are same way, you must change into one of them before you declare attackers.
Any Dragon who has a does combat damage to a player ability such as Balefire Dragon you can wait with Scion after you attack. If you attack with Scion and it's not blocked then you can activate it at the Declare Blockers step and change into Balefire before you do combat damage to a player which then will trigger Balefire.
Sorry for the confusion with Scion as it can be a tricky card to play, but because of the stack and instant speed activation you can take real advantage of it's tutor ability with Dragons.
1 month ago
I like these Beefcakes because they add to the party without adding to our Devotion. Honestly with Giant Adephage and Utvara Hellkite, if they don't get removed quickly our opponents are in trouble. It doesn't cost us hardly anything if a mostly token board gets removed. Minor synergies with cards that sac stuff as well.
I like them, I guess is the answer. Technically I have yet to play Quartzwood Crasher but he's just like the others so I'm sure he's great.
Regarding Drakuseth, Maw of Flames; He's really good if your opponents have a lot of lower health but valuable creatures. If you see stuff like Tymna the Weaver, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death... that kinda stuff, Drakuseth is REALLY good. He replaced Inferno Titan for me because he reaches a little higher overall. Flying is also a plus.
1 month ago
My favorite is either Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer or Ephara, God of the Polis. I like ephara because it's more consistent and benefits off of some cards that aren't good like Zoetic Cavern. I like Brudiclad because it's fun to have hundreds of copies of Goblin Rabblemaster or Utvara Hellkite.
1 month ago
I love Feldon of the Third Path. My deck is FELDON EDH PRIMER: FELDON NEEDS SOME LOVE. The best part about it is that it breaks the fundamental rule of EDH: singleton. Feldon is capable of making multiple copies of cards that shouldn't exist in multiple in EDH, like eldrazi or Utvara Hellkite. Feldon is a forgotten commander, so he often gets underlooked and can slowly police the board until he's ready to show why you shouldn't forget him.
2 months ago
So, there are several things you have misunderstood when looking at this deck, as it's one I have played and tweaked for the better part of a decade now and am very happy with it's current state. Firstly, the danger of Xenagos really kicks in when you can actually pressure an opponent, so it's best to stick with either trample or flying creatures exclusively, with the few exceptions of those that will really buff and support you such as Birds of Paradise and Oracle of Mul Daya. I chose to go with flyers, the best of which are largely dragons, because people generally do not have many fliers and are not prepared to deal with the power and pressure of many massive fliers suddenly appearing and swinging at them. As for the rest of the suggestions you have, and the part you misunderstood with him, is that you're focused on making more of a midgame and a recovery so you don't falter due to lack of cards. However, Xenagos doesn't really care of need that. Xenagos needs to get to 5 mana and get a single dragon out. One dragon. Then you are immediately swinging for at least 10 if not more, and every dragon has abilities and triggers that further pressures your opponent(s).
Greater Good is a fantastic card, but there are very few times that you want to be sacrificing your creatures since you will always be a massive target since Xenagos is always a threat. The same goes for Life's Legacy and Momentous Fall.
The problem with cards such as Return of the Wildspeaker, Harmonize, and Bonders' Enclave is that they take up most of your turn to draw cards. I have found that as a true gruul deck you don't want to let off the pressure on your opponents. You very rarely need more than a few dragons over the course of the game as Xenagos puts so much pressure on through doubling them and haste that losing an entire turn to draw more cards is a waste. I make an exception for Rishkar's Expertise because it does still allow us to drop a card and keep the momentum going.
Elder Gargaroth is indeed a good card, but it runs into the problem that it's effects aren't good enough for the deck. He is focused on the additional utility abilities, being lifegain, token generation, and drawing a card, which in any other deck are fantastic abilities. But here he doesn't put pressure onto your opponents the way cards such as Terror of the Peaks does. Everything about Xenagos is speed and pressure. You also run into the issue of him dying. With most opponents fielding very few flying and reach creatures when compared with the number of them in this deck, you rarely need to worry about your dragons dying. Every turn your board keeps building and the dragons have such destructive abilities (see Balefire Dragon for an example of such) that they have trouble keeping a strong board presence and fighting back. But all they need is one small deathtoucher, or any pump spell on one of their ground creatures and they stop your momentum. However, they will rarely have enough fliers to do that. That's a big part of the reason why we run so many dragons. Direct damage to your oppoenent, destructive effects to their boardstate (ex. Tyrant's Familiar), and constant psychological pressure and panic setting in. This is the way of the gruul.
Lifeblood Hydra is too slow. You need at least 8 mana to make him even a little viable, which is too much and too slow. My 8 drops are either extremely powerful, Utvara Hellkite for example, or i'm dropping a 6 drop and holding up a Heroic Intervention or something of that sort.
The Great Henge is also a great card, but again it's too slow.
Berserk is okay, but I prefer my creatures staying alive and pressuring on further turns.
Kessig Wolf Run Honestly just not good enough. The trample is largely unnecessary, and it eats up a minimum of 3 mana to have any effect, mana that can better be spent elsewhere.
Rancor Not good enough
Deflecting Swat Amazing card, but very rarely are cards single targeted any more, at least in my meta. Board wipes are more common.
Ilharg, the Raze-Boar Rather than this, I can just have another dragon which would do much more for my deck.
Sensei's Divining Top Another amazing card, but it just doesn't do enough in this deck.
Now, regarding the high CMC of the deck, of course it's going to be high. We're rushing out to 6 mana and then aggroing out from there. This deck doesn't look to play tempo with a whole bunch of smaller cards being played and set up. That takes too long and allows midrange and late game decks to set up too much. This deck is trying to ramp out and attack.
Finally, I have no idea which creatures you are viewing as subpar. The creatures in this deck are exclusively either flying to attack and pressure my opponents, or ramp/dorks to accelerate the deck, or protection in the form of Archetype of Endurance. If you would be willing to expound on that statement i'm curious to hear your opinion on which creatures could be better utilized.
I will say this, all of those suggestions are great and i'm always really happy to hear and see other people's thoughts on improving things. Other than Berserk and Ilharg, the Raze-Boar I have actually run every single one of those cards in this deck at one point or another. However, though many years and a lot of experience with him, this build is what I have found to be the most powerful and reliable one.
2 months ago
Hey, Savage Ventmaw when tutored for with Scion before attacking can make mana for three more activations of Scion. This can be used for a reanimation line with Teneb, the Harvester and Bladewing the Risen which you end up with all three Dragons on the battlefield and a Teneb who can attack again and reanimate again on your next turn. Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund gives Dragons you control haste and that's powerful when you reanimate a lot of them at once especially with Utvara Hellkite.
Looks like you forgot Sol Ring? With such a high budget is there some reason not playing any tutors: Demonic Tutor and Enlightened Tutor? Buried Alive is powerful with reanimation strategies because it also tutors. You have ABUR Duals, Shock lands and Trimoes which makes Nature's Lore and Farseek good two drop land ramp spells. City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Cascading Cataracts, Unclaimed Territory are some land upgrades to consider.
Cards to consider cutting:
- Boros Garrison
- Gruul Turf
- Izzet Boilerworks
- Rakdos Carnarium
- Dragonskull Summit
- Rootbound Crag
- Path of Ancestry
- Mana Geode
- Commander's Sphere
- Genesis Ultimatum
- Monastery Siege
- Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire
- Slumbering Dragon
- O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami
Good luck with your deck.
2 months ago
X-Factor11105 Definitely a fan of your list, though I don't really have much in the way of suggestions. I'm not sure if I like the idea of running Moltensteel Dragon outside of Scion combo/infect shenanigans. How has he been for you?
I like that you're running Daretti. I used to run him and he was great, and I've been tempted to find a spot for him again.
Anyway, some answers:
Crucible is... whatever. I'm pretty sure I've only ever used it to store mana like three times in the entire time I've had this deck, but at the same time it has never really screwed me over either, so I don't feel like I'm losing anything by including it. Its probably one of the first lands I'll cut once I have the money to upgrade my mana with stuff like Ancient Tomb or more fetchlands.
Exhume is admittedly sometimes dead, but when an opponent has a dangerous creature in their yard I'll typically just loot Exhume away for something else.
Feldon is amazing, yet I'm still somehow kinda meh on him. Recurring stuff like Solemn Simulacrum, Utvara Hellkite, and Dragon Tyrant is awesome, but I have had a lot of games where I draw Feldon before I even have anything to meaningfully reanimate, and he just kinda... sits there. Or he eats a removal spell before I get a chance to untap with him.
I love Dark Ritual. At the very worst it lets me cast Bladewing two turns early, but you know what feels amazing? Using Dark Ritual to cast Phyrexian Arena on turn 1. It also lets you do stuff like turn 1 Entomb your dragon of choice, then Exhume it right into play. Turn 1 Utvara Hellkite is funnnn.
On another note, I am so ready to windmill slam Feed the Swarm in here once Zendikar drops, butttt I'm not sure what to cut for it. Any ideas? I'm kinda thinking of swapping out Gratuitous Violence - it's been feeling like overkill lately.
3 months ago
Any permanent on the battlefield that isn't represented by a Magic card is a token. This is an indelible trait of that game object. The converse is also true. Any permanent on the battlefield that is represented by a Magic card is not a token.
Hope this helps!!