Create three 1/1 red Goblin creature tokens.
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Hordeling Outburst Discussion
5 months ago
Sooo what do you want for this deck? Do you need token producers? If that is the route you want to go down, there are some other cards you should look at:
More aristocrats. You are in the right colors for these, so this shouldn't be hard to fill out. Blood Artist, Zulaport Cutthroat, Falkenrath Noble; I think there might be some red ones that make the creature itself deal damage to any target? If so, those should be an auto include what with the assassins having deathtouch.
As far as actual tokens go, it seems you mostly have one-off effects; if you want more of these, you should look for cards that get you tokens with a high amount of efficiency. If you had enough mana rocks and stuff like that I would suggest Kuldotha Rebirth, but for now I don't think that is going to do it as often as you want. Probably you want stuff like Krenko's Command, Dragon Fodder, Hordeling Outburst, etc. for this category.
In terms of token producing that recursively gives you value, I would suggest Assemble the Legion for sure; also, maybe Ophiomancer (expensive but very good with a sacrifice outlet) and any of the Goonies would be good, though technically they aren't tokens, they just come back a lot (Reassembling Skeleton, Nether Traitor, Bloodsoaked Champion, Bloodghast, Tenacious Dead, either Squee would work). If you really do want tokens to come out and be there at the same time and start to build up a board state with them, you should probably use ... well, I dunno, you're in white. Figure it out.
Also, one last thing: Cathars' Crusade.
In terms of what to cut, I would look reaaally hard at the top of your curve. I would probably drop Gravewaker at least. I think Necrotic Hex is probably good in your deck, because you have so many creatures, but just in general I think it's better in a deck that actually cares about either the word "sacrifice" or the zombies for being zombies rather than the zombies being bodies. Lena seems bad here, I don't know how many nontoken creatures you'll have. I think Crush Contraband could get cut for more efficient removal, maybe Anguished Unmaking or Utter End if you want a budget version. Moan of the Unhallowed is ... straight up bad I think.
Let me know if these were helpful or if you need more cuts.
7 months ago
Hey, thanks for the advice!
So I've only been able to play a couple games tonight with Winota, but every game so far has solidified in my mind that Winota is incredibly strong. Even at this low of a budget, I was still able to reliably get Winota out at turn 3-4 and start swinging for an instant army. (Just to be clear, my meta is on the higher end of power level, with plenty of combo decks and people that run cedh mostly. They do have more casual decks, but the playstyle/mindset is still aligned with it to a degree. Plenty of interaction.)
In terms of ramp, it's not really that different than any other non-green deck, because you can run the same artifacts that you would run in Mardu, Grixis, Esper, etc. I think that's a bit of an unfair perception that Boros gets stuck with. It's true that black and blue (Mostly black) have better ways to ramp, but we still have plenty of serviceable ramp options in Boros. Card draw is a little more difficult naturally, but you don't need to draw too many cards if you're going to win on turns 5-7 anyway.
I may agree with your assessment on Mask of Memory and Sword of the Animist, though I'll have to do some more testing. I'll probably leave them in, on the off chance that the game goes on for longer than we want it to.
However, Winota actually strikes me as one of the most Boros-like commanders we've ever seen. She makes going to combat incredibly exciting, and provides a tangible payoff through card advantage and massive damage. The optimal play pattern seems to be using turns 1-3 to ramp and/or getting tokens on the board with cards like Hordeling Outburst and Raise the Alarm, then playing Winota on turn 3-4 and swinging out to bury your opponents in raw card advantage and board presence. I was a little worried about ratios myself when building the deck, but really as long as you jam the deck with a ton of low cost token producers (There are even non-human and human creatures that MAKE non-humans to swing with!) the deck can really pump out threatening scenarios. I found myself tonight feeling disappointed with only having 10 creatures on board.
I absolutely agree with you on Legion's Landing Flip and Flawless Maneuver, they will definitely be going in the deck after I decide whether or not to keep it, but from the VERY strong showing it made tonight, I'm thinking Winny is going to be staying around for quite some time.
If you want to see a budget Winota deck really shine, then I'd suggest checking out Commander Replay, if you haven't already. I've learned so much about how powerful Boros actually can be, and he was one of the big inspirations for this list:
8 months ago
We talked about it a bit earlier, but Leonin Warleader is a good include here. I think it's more threatening than Brimaz. I see Impact Tremors, so It would be intersting to kinda steer the deck in a token build. Docent of Perfection Flip can help get the party started. There are also gobo spells you can cast daddy Vadrok, like Hordeling Outburst to help fuel your army.
One thing I noticed is that there aren't a whole lot of pump effects for a voltron subtheme commander outside of double strike type cards. Might be cool to add Brute Force, Infuriate, and low cost buff spells. If that style sounds cool you can add in Feather, the Redeemed for more ways to get your spells back and if you lean towards token theme adding Zada, Hedron Grinder will really scare the table!
As for potential cuts, I think Archipelagore can probably take a seat. High mana cost with a bit of a low effect. How often will you mutate ove 2 creatures. Fling seems a bit out of place. I can't imagine wanting to sacrifice a mutate pile.
Focusing on your commander's ability and bouncing to recast it will be much cheaper and have a greater impact in game. Blistercoil Weird, Kiln Fiend and Spellgorger Weird could also be some cool potential targets to mutate onto. Flood of Tears can clear the board and let you put down a mutate target.
9 months ago
Immediately I see that some good token instants and sorceries aren't here that may help.
Are all solid non human tokens that are cheap to get out.
10 months ago
Thanks for the input. I have actually tested the deck and found it to be oppressively fast and resilient in a very uncomfortable environment. Here are my thoughts on your suggestions:
I will check for a slot for Goblin Tinkerer. It has to stick around for a turn and in cases where I actually care about artifacts of my opponents, I usually require at least sorcery speed. If I don't need the removal, Goblin Replica is the bigger body. However, in the context of what this deck wants to do, the difference is negligable. The Replica actually opens me up to artifact removal, so exchanging it may just be worth a try. I am actually thinking about not playing either and slotting in Destructive Tampering, as I can recur it via Anarchist or Ghitu Chronicler and another option at getting evasion may actually be nice.
I'll also try Boiling Blood, since I managed not find any of my draw spells during the last game and only managed to kill a single opponent because of it. I previously decided against it because of the choice between forced attack or being restricted to play it on my second main phase. Usually, I want to draw into ramp and draw in my first main phase and then decide to go off or not, which in this deck requires an attack phase. Being committing before having the whole picture seems rather dangerous, but then... it's a gambly red deck anyways and I guess I'd rather have the draw spell.
I opted against Titan's Strength, as it will only fix one single draw in a limited (gambling) way, so the slot went to a large buff spell instead for consistency.
I also decided against Raid Bombardment, because I wasn't ever happy to draw it instead of a buff, draw or ramp. It always always seemed like win-more or not doing enough. Raid Bombardment essentially ends up being a +1/+0 buff for the big turn, because the deck rarely attacks before going off, if an opponent has any blockers and in Pauper EDH, they usually do.
Hissing Iguanar and Impact Tremors didn't make the cut, because they just don't do enough in the deck either. They rarely deal more than 5 to 10 damage each and any decent pump spell does more. Pinging your opponents also draws more attention to you, endangering your board state somewhat. I would rather have one more token generator, buff or draw spell in those cases. Also, before going off, enchantments open you up to another kind of removal and while going off, both usually end up being strictly worse up to being dead draws and. I may try Impact Tremors again at some point though, as it has the biggest potential.
Considering the creature count, I am actually playing around 40 creatures (only 2 less than your deck, before storm, doubling and recursion) in those 23 slots, but opted to prefer token generators like Hordeling Outburst instead of actual bodies (successfully, I might add). The reason being, that one card that creates 2-4 tokens will let me recover from a board wipe or focused fire way easier than having to draw and play one goblin a turn. At the same time, potential spot removal in my opponents hands is devalued. This helps me recover and race my opponents into another big turn more easily and heavily increases success rates. Many token generators are instant or sorcery and cards can also be retrieved from the graveyard, in case I need to, adding resilience and recursion. I do lose some nifty goblin abilities, but I found the compromise acceptable. It also opens me up to a bit more board wipes in Pauper EDH though, but since board-wipe pingers seem to not be very popular for their limited usability, I'm not too worried. Crypt Rats and Pestilence being the exceptions, but those rarely trigger for 1 and will usually wipe all goblins off the table anyways.
And lastly, the "Threaten" slots and lands (which kinda go together). The goal of this deck is to: "be quiet and build a board state of small, non-threatening guys that aren't worth the removal and then in one turn draw into ramp that will allow more draw and ramp, then buff the whole team and kill everyone at once (ideally) or just the biggest threat and set up the next big turn". I found, that 6-7 lands in play are quite enough to get the ball rolling as long as you can draw enough buffs and ramp. If anything, I'd actually rather play some artifact ramp to be honest, to accelerate the deck by a turn instead of putting in more lands. Up to now, the deck was consistent enough at 35 lands though.
Now, if I can actually manage to go off as described, my guys usually already have haste via one of the other spells or I have ramped into enough Mana to cast any of the "Threaten" effects on Zada to get there. They aren't that expencive. On the other hand, taking over another creature for its abilities for a turn or to just not have to deal with it in combat on a big turn has shown to be very effective. Additionally, occasionally killing someone with their own commander is hilarious as hell. And finally, 3 of the 5 "Threaten" cards do actually buff your team aside from haste, when cast on Zada, Traitorous Instinct with Menace evasion and Mark of Mutiny actually putting a +1/+1 counter on the whole team, which can also be very useful when you want to cast stuff like Zap on your guys, when you need to save your team or when you need to set up another turn. Both effects you can't get efficiently any other way in red. For this utility, I found paying the premium to be an acceptable compromise.
I'd love to discuss it further. These were my design considerations, any thoughts, found any BS? Let me know!
10 months ago
Hey, for the low budget good job for your first Commander deck.
Consider a Goblin and Dragon theme? This would give your overall deck a more focused theme instead of just playing random creatures such as Diregraf Ghoul and Spinal Centipede. I suggest this because when Kolaghan attacks she pumps any creatures you control and Goblins can make lots of token creatures. This kind of strategy is call go wide. Which means attacking with lots of creatures, a wide battlefield of creatures.
Cards to consider adding:
- Command Tower
- Tome of Legends: repeatable draw, triggers twice when you dash Kolaghan since she ETB and attacks.
- Sol Ring
- Diabolic Tutor
- Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin
- Krenko, Mob Boss
- Legion Warboss
- Taurean Mauler: Changeling, is a Dragon and a Goblin.
- Ogre Battledriver: each token that's created does ETB it gains haste and gets a +2/0 pump. Each time you dash Kolaghan she ETB giving her a +2/0 pump.
- Boltwing Marauder
- Torbran, Thane of Red Fell
- Siege-Gang Commander
- Chaos Warp
- Heraldic Banner
- Goblin Matron
- Goblin Warchief
- Skirk Prospector
- Krenko's Command
- Dragon Fodder
- Hordeling Outburst
- Pashalik Mons
- Sling-Gang Lieutenant
Good luck with your deck.
1 year ago
1 year ago
So, Arcane Adaptation can add creature types to all your creatures... I don't know if this is the right forum, but what happens if you name Mountains or something, have Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and play something like Hordeling Outburst?
Does Valakut mean specifically Mountain Lands, or does it mean any permanent with the subtype 'Mountain'? This probably works with other cards as well, like card:Engulf the Shores if you play something like Elspeth, Sun's Champion. Although Engulf does the exact opposite of what you want to be doing.
Nissa, Who Shakes the World? There might be some potential.