Will Lifeblood Hydra die if you play it for 3 mana with Cathars' Crusade on the battlefield?
Asked by Foxja 2 years ago
Basically title question. If I played Lifeblood Hydra for 3 mana, meaning it enters with 0 +1/+1 counters on it as a 0/0, and an effect triggers that puts a +1/+1 counter on it when it enters the battlefield (like Cathars' Crusade), what happens? Also, does something different happen if the enchantment just a buff, like if I had Beastmaster Ascension on the battlefield with 7+ quest counters on it?
TypicalTimmy says... #2
Enter The Battlefield is a trigger that goes on the stack. What happens is when something says "Enters the Battlefield", the game will check to see what conditions have been met, put that on the stack, and await to see if there are any responses and whether or not it resolves.
For example, if I have an Impact Tremors and I play a Hordeling Outburst, Impact Tremors is going to check to see if all three Goblins did in fact enter the battlefield, and further more if anything responds to it. I may have an opponent on their last legs who decides to use a Teferi's Protection in response, preventing Impact Tremors from dealing 3 damage to them - although Impact Tremors will still deal the damage to each other opponent, assuming we are playing EDH and I have multiple opponents.
However, State Based Actions do not use the stack. They occur automatically and can not be responded to. For example, suppose one of my other opponents happens to have out Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. What happens?
My three 1/1 Goblins DO still enter the battlefield, and Impact Tremors WILL still see them entering the battlefield, however Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite will also give them all -2/-2.
They will, therefore, enter the battlefield as (technically) -1/-1. Because their toughness is 0 or lower, they will die.
- NOTE: They do not "die"; This is a colloquial expression that many of us will use in the community. They are actually "moved to the graveyard" via state based actions. This is why dealing 5 damage to Thassa, God of the Sea with Crater's Claws won't kill her - she's Indestructible - but hitting her with -5/-5 via Toxic Deluge will. Indestructible prevents damage from being lethal, but having Toughness reduced to 0 circumvents that.
So, because State Based Actions are what's being done here, you don't get a chance to go "Wait, I cast Echoing Courage in response!"
There's nothing to respond to. State Based Actions don't go on the stack. The Goblins simply get moved to the graveyard as -1/-1s where, as tokens, they are subsequently then removed from the graveyard and the game, as another example of a State Based Action. (Not put in exile; Exile is a zone "outside of the game", within the game. It's... weird.)
April 23, 2022 2:34 a.m. Edited.
TypicalTimmy says... #3
As for your specific example, if Lifeblood Hydra is cast for , it will go on the stack and - if it resolves - enter the battlefield as a 0/0.
If a trigger kicks off from it entering, such as Ivy Lane Denizen, what will happen is that before that trigger even goes onto the stack, Lifeblood Hydra's State Based Actions will check, see it as a 0/0 and move it to the graveyard.
Now, it still entered the battlefield, so Ivy Lane Denizen will still have their trigger go on the stack, but you won't be able to target Lifeblood Hydra because it will be too late and she'll already be in the graveyard.
Now, if you have an anthem (Typically an enchantment that grants a continuous bonus but really any permanent can do this), such as Collective Blessing, then Lifeblood Hydra will NOT enter the battlefield as a 0/0, it'll enter the battlefield as a 3/3 and thus survive.
April 23, 2022 2:42 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
Creatures put into the graveyard for having 0 life do "die". What they are not is destroyed. The fact that they die is important for Blood Artist effects and other "dies" triggers.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1
Lifeblood Hydra for 3 and Cathars' Crusade will result in the hydra dying to SBA for having 0 or less toughness. Cathars' Crusade has a triggered ability, the ability has to go on the stack and resolve.
Things like Glorious Anthem and others that are just static buffs will let your hydra live. They are static abilities and apply at all times.
April 23, 2022 1:45 a.m.