Creature — Cat
: Monstrosity 1. (If this creature isn't monstrous, put a +1/+1 counter on it and it becomes monstrous.)
As long as Fleecemane Lion is monstrous, it has hexproof and indestructible.
|Have (2)||CompleteWaste , metalmagic|
|Want (2)||colind123 , Orzhov202|
Printings View all
|Commander 2017 (C17)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Fleecemane Lion Discussion
1 month ago
I would change the GW “big bolstered butts” to a more value-style Selesnya deck. There are way too many to even list here but I’ll go for some haha
I actually recently built a cube with some of the same themes as yours such as WB Tokens, UW control, UG ramp, and Izzet Spells matter (but I call mine counter burn)
1 month ago
You’re, absolutely right, Encircling Fissure would be better than Winds of Qal Sisma, can’t believe I missed it. It does the exact same things, except they’re more consistent and gains more semi-relevant text for the late game, which is well worth the extra mana. Plus, it’s in white, which is your primary colour, so you’re more likely to have the necessary mana to cast it in a pinch.
I feel we will always disagree regarding Watchers of the Dead. To me it’s a card that does two things badly, to the point where you’d always be better off playing a card that only did one of those things properly. A Fleecemane Lion will always be a better body on the board, will always trade better, deal with removal better and will be something that your opponent will have to do something about before you make it monstrous. In a tiny number of cases the graveyard hate might be needed more, but the number of times where this makes Watchers the better card for you are tiny. In terms of actual graveyard hate, Tormod's Crypt is just infinitely better. The difference between no graveyard and two optimal cards in a graveyard is game losing for you. I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at with your opponent signalling what they’re doing in what they keep, most of the time it’s pretty obvious what the danger cards are, be it an Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, a Prized Amalgam, or just a big Eldrazi in a reanimator deck. Also, with Lurrus of the Dream-Den, Tormod’s can kill their graveyard every turn for free, basically shutting down their entire deck unless they can find an answer, which is surely much more desirable. And with regards to Lurrus, he can bring back ANY two drop, and actually interacts better with many of the others in your deck, since returning Watchers implies that you haven’t used it for its full value initially, whereas you probably will have with your other two drops. Finally, the fact that it is also an artifact can also be pretty relevant, and not in a good way. Many decks will have incidental artifact hate built into their decks, be that to counter decks built around Ensoul Artifact effects, Shadowspear or even to kill of the graveyard hate cards like Grafdigger's Cage, and to have the card even more vulnerable to removal than practically every other creature in the deck seems kinda problematic.
1 month ago
Not sure I’m a fan of Druid's Deliverance. Fog effects are fine, but you need to make sure that you pick one that can be used aggressively, not just defensively. Deliverance can only ever really be used as a defensive fog since only ever stop damage going to your face. I would instead recommend Winds of Qal Sisma instead, since it can also be used aggressively. You can force your opponent to trade with your board, but then make the trade one sided by negating your opponents damage, while still being able to hit their creatures/face. And, the fog effect will still be able to protect your health in much the same way. Sure, the populate is nice, but as I’ve said before you lack decent targets and the ability to one sidedly trade a board is far better value.
Ok, I’m going to have another go at trying to explain why I don’t think Watchers of the Dead should really be mainboarded in this deck. First reason, in any matchup that doesn’t care about its graveyard, the card is a below average rate, vanilla two drop. And sure, it can become a decent size if you have any lords on the field, but so would any cat you ran instead, and any other cat would arguably be a bigger and more impactful threat, be that simply by being bigger or by having a more relevant ability. If you compare to Prowling Serpopard, the other card that is arguably a sideboard card, it’s stats are actually very good, so even if you play it as a vanilla 4/3, it can trade well and be an aggressive threat, and therefore is a much better include. Watchers also has no real ability to scale well into longer games, unlike many other two drops, including Adorned Pouncer, Ajani's Pridemate or Fleecemane Lion. These all have additional abilities that can come into play later down the line that are impactful and can caused problems for your opponent almost always. Secondly, let’s consider what the graveyard hate ability on Watchers is actually able to disrupt on a major scale. Since you are allowing the opponent to keep two cards, you will almost never hit one of their powerful cards, since they’ll opt to get rid of something else, and this ultimately does you very little good. It might cause some momentary problems for a delve or delirium deck, sure, but those decks will quickly be back online since they can very quickly fill their graveyards, and would still have their key pieces available to them. The fact that your opponent gets to keep two cards available to them, and that they get to pick them, makes this effect a very weak form of graveyard hate that I don’t think will ever really be enough to stop a graveyard deck. Also, when evaluating the impact of a card designed to counter something, you must always consider the card in isolation, in terms of how good it ultimately is at that job. Sure, Watchers might be good if you happen to also have Return to Nature to get rid of the biggest problem that they kept, but what if you don’t have that? Since your only running one of each, it is extremely unlikely that you will have both, so that “combo” will almost never actually happen. I know this probably seems like I’m being unduly critical of this one card, but I think it serves as a good example of how cards need to be assessed when making a deck. Consider the range of the cards possible value, from when it will be as good as it ever will be and also as bad as it ever will be, and then compare how often those events will occur. A card that is game breaking 1% of the time but is awful the other 99% is never going to be a better card than one that gets good value 70% of the time (sorry if this comes across as kind of a lecture on why I think you’re wrong, I know you’ll have your reasons for liking the cards, I’m just trying to kinda explain how I evaluate and develop opinions on cards in the hope that it is helpful to you).
1 month ago
I also think that I should run 4x Anointed Procession since that gives me drawing power for that card. And I'm not too fond of having 4x Ajani's Pridemate since I already have 1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos. To me, I could do with more Pride Sovereign or Leonin Warleader or Regal Caracal or Brimaz, King of Oreskos since this is mainly a tokens deck; can't forget that. I just need more cards besides Angelic Gift that give drawing power. Not creatures drawing, but overall deck. If anything I could get rid of Invigorating Surge since it's only useful for Ajani's Pridemate which would make it who knows what P/T, but I imagine it would be GIGANTIC, and I could use it on Fleecemane Lion as well which would end up giving it +4/+4 instead of +1/+1. As long as my opponent doesn't counter or remove my cards, I will be a happy camper. This is why I think I need to draw Prowling Serpopard, but only if I'm against control decks, and its 4/3 is not a bad thing either for 3 mana.
1 month ago
Okay. I've taken all of your advice to mind, and the reason why I have 3x Ajani's Pridemate is because I have 1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos, which I don't know if I need it or not. I have 2x Lurrus of the Dream-Den as I have a bunch of 2 and 1 drops, which are Ajani's Pridemate, Adorned Pouncer, Watchers of the Dead, Sacred Cat, and Fleecemane Lion. But if Ajani's Pridemate has counters on it, would reviving it from the graveyard keep those counters? If so, then that would be awesome. I got rid of Bronzehide Lion as it is kind of expensive to make a single creature indestructible for a turn, and added 1x Fleecemane Lion instead. I don't plan on getting rid of Blessed Alliance since if I have 2x Pride Sovereign, I can untap both of them, and if I am fighting a large monster that is attacking, I can use Blessed Alliance to sacrifice it, especially if I can't get rid of it with Selesnya Charm, such as a indestructible 4 P/T.
1 month ago
I’m not sure about your budget, but probably the best option would be to run two Temple Garden instead. There is a reason that everyone recommends using shock lands, they’re very good at what they do and don’t rely on your board state or hand state to enter untapped. Plus, the life cost is mitigated by all your lifegain, so they would definitely be your best bet if your budget is fine with them.
Just as a point about Unclaimed Territory, you can still use it to cast non-cat spells, just not for any coloured components of them. Looking at your spells, most only have one mana symbol on them, so using colourless mana to cast them doesn’t seem like a big issue, and for all your cats this is the most efficient dual land possible. I use the card a lot (since I play a LOT of tribal decks) and this drawback is almost never an issue.
As a final thing, I’d maybe consider cutting back on the number of non-creature spells (maybe just run one less of some of them) and run a few more two drop cats, particularly as you’re starting to use Lurrus of the Dream-Den. You’re running a lot of one off cards in that slot (Fleecemane Lion and Bronzehide Lion), and I think you’d probably be better off adding a few more copies of each, or consolidating behind one of them. Maybe remove the Blessed Alliance for one each of Fleecemane and Bronzehide, or even drop one lion as well to get a full play set of the other? With all the lifegain as well, I feel Ajani's Pridemate should probably be run as a full play set too, but these are just my thoughts.
1 month ago
Hello again. When it comes to your “toolbox” idea, I think you’ve probably got everything covered, just as long as you keep extra copies of these cards in the sideboard for once you know you’ll need specific ones. About the only card I think might be worth considering for this is Selesnya Charm, which to be honest I can’t believe that I’d forgotten about. In terms of what it counters, it gives you the ability to deal with huge creatures and even get around indestructible, which makes it particularly good against big Eldrazi, Dinosaurs or Dragons. But where this really shines is in its flexibility, since it can also be an instant speed blocker if needed, or a pump spell that gets a creature through to end a game. For two mana I don’t think you can get much better. I might also consider Return to Nature over Sundering Growth, since it also has the potential for very effective graveyard hate, particularly against decks using the Theros titans, or any big reanimation targets. With Adorned Pouncer being the only source of a good populate target (a 1/1 is never really a good hit), the value of Growth seems inconsistent, and most of the time it will be a more limited version of Return.
Unfortunately, G/W doesn’t have access to all that many tutors, especially not in pioneer, and even then the green ones only really find creatures, while white finds enchantments. Idyllic Tutor can help grab Anointed Procession, but that’s probably not enough hits. The green tutors I could find were more expensive, both in terms of mana and money, but are both very strong since they also get the creature onto the battlefield. Chord of Calling can be good since you can ramp it out with your wide board, as well as use it to tutor up a win con on your opponents end step, effectively giving it haste. Finale of Devastation is the other alternative, but I feel it’s strictly worse since you’ll never cast it for 12 mana to get the extra effect. However, I wouldn’t really recommend running any of these, they just seem too inefficient to me.
As you have pointed out regarding Huatli, Radiant Champion, unfortunately most card draw in these colours is reliant on you playing out creatures, since most of the time these colours produce creature based strategies. It is important to remember though that tokens would also trigger her ability, so a Leonin Warleader could attack and draw you two cards if you have the emblem, or even more if you have Anointed Procession. I find that tokens are he best way to exploit these effects for maximum value, and since your deck makes so many I think it would be a good effect to have access to.
I would not call Initiate's Companion a ramp card, especially not in this deck. If I used the card, I would mainly do so to untap my Pride Sovereign in order to get around the exert, rather than untapping a land, especially since it ramps you into two spells rather than into a single bigger threat. Even then, the effect is very disruptable, since it needs to hit the opponent first to activate the ability and has no eveasion built into it. As a 3/1, it is also very easy to trade into, so I think it will very rarely give you good value. In actuality, you do already have a form of ramp in the deck form Oketra's Monument, and I don’t think you anything more than that.
Lurrus of the Dream-Den is another very good card, provided that you have enough things that you can bring back. Since both Fleecemane Lion and Ajani's Pridemate, and even Adorned Pouncer can all be big threats, being able to just bring them back is really powerful, but it can also feel pretty bad if your graveyard is just filled with bigger creatures.
On a final note regarding how companion works, while your companion card starts the game in a zone where your opponent can’t touch it, you do still have to cast it and have it on board to gain the effects, and in fact you also have to pay three to move it from it’s starting zone to your hand. I wasn’t sure whether I’d fully explained how the mechanic worked, so I just thought I’d clarify.
1 month ago
You're right. It only targets one creature, so that isn't all that great when I have a ton of cats on the field. I just don't like the idea of spending 3 mana for a +1/+1 and Indestructible for a turn. I'm sure there are better cards than that in the game. I'd prefer something like Aqueous Form that allow me to directly attack my opponent, but I don't know of any green or white cards that do that. If I have a huge Pride Sovereign or Ajani's Pridemate or eternalized Adorned Pouncer, or use Invigorating Surge on Ajani's Pridemate or Monstrous Fleecemane Lion, this method of using a card to attack my opponent directly would really destroy him/her. What do you think of Oketra's Last Mercy??? Seems like a great card to use when low on life instead of using lifegain cards.