Posted on June 2, 2019, 6:50 p.m. by Sid_the_sloth
Hey guys back here with another question and ideas for commander. First point the people I play with can be described as a casual group that are competitive but not the kind to bring infinite combo b.s to the table that goes off quickly.
Ive been searching commanders and another dislcaimer is ive been removed from magic for about 3 years theres a lot of new cards
I see theres a partner ability and i WAS going to partner up inorder to have mardu colors as I think i posted a few days back but then I saw this guy
Vial smasher the feirce
So if I understand this correctly it any kinda of spell as long as its my first into a rocket to a random face? As in if I cast grave titan it auto does 6 damage to a random peraon?? So I was looking up cards for him and I came across this page
Its obviously a good site but what do you guys overall think of him as a commander and his ability plus the great removal packages of red and black has to offer and some good enchantments too Not to meantion some good demons too.
Vial Smasher the Fierce would be a fun commander to play. His ability is random, which is fun and can deter some hate you might get from him, and his partner mechanic allows you to choose all kinds of different ways to go with him. Another card I see pop into Vial Smasher decks is Kaervek the Merciless . If you played him with Thrasios, Triton Hero , you get some nice card draw, and two great colors that ramp and draw cards. If you go with Akiri, Line-Slinger you can get some artifact themes going. Ravos, Soultender give some graveyard value. All kinds of ways to go.
June 2, 2019 7:02 p.m.
I thought about ravos but the thing is and mabye its a good thought?? If I went with those two i would be doing a super friends package/play style and be in the typical red white black removal heavy, and a few creature bombs in those colors Like the Titans a good demon or two. Also hand removal and enchantment heavy
Or I thought of maybe keeping it rakdos and changing up my general to rakdos the show stopper, and keep95% of my creature types to his ability and run a heavy removal of hand and spot removal while running some good enchantment support/trolling?? Also two colors to keep price down What you think if rakdos the show stopper ability and structure??
June 2, 2019 9:09 p.m.
If you want to go big creatures, I'd suggest Rakdos, Lord of Riots : he is group slug + gives you the ability to cast huge creatures for cheap, or zero if they're colourless, like Eldrazis or big artifact creatures like Blightsteel Colossus .
Rakdos, the Showstopper makes for a good enough tribal deck, but could be a little underpowered overall. I wouldn't go with him if you were considering to be slightly competitive (which means you wanted to try to actually win).
Another good commander in RB is Xantcha, Sleeper Agent (is run by one of my friends): super fun, high interaction, easily gets to the lategame. I can link it if you will.
As for Vial Smasher the Fierce , it's a good commander, again group slug, but only hits one of your opponents. I'd definitely put it in the 99 of one of the previously mentioned commanders.
June 3, 2019 2:31 a.m.
Why is rakdos the show stopper not good enough tribal to win? Most of the good demons are 5 to 6 cmc and have decent abilities.
You have cards to help add/filter mana Signet, locket, ignot etc Mind stone and stuff like that. A good removal package And some good enchantment. Some good tutors if your wallet is deep enough etc. What's bad with the demon tribal?
June 3, 2019 3:27 a.m.
Hey, I think Olivia, Mobilized for War is an underrated Rakdos Commander. Don't have to necessarily play Vampires with her, she can be good with reanimation strategies since she's an enabler from the Command Zone to get a creature into your graveyard. She gives a creature haste that's good with big creatures such as Grave Titan and Demons when you cheat them onto the battlefield with reanimation.
Support creatures who can keep coming back to the battlefield or your hand to trigger Olivia: Bloodghast , Squee, Goblin Nabob , Bloodsoaked Champion , Reassembling Skeleton . Cards that create tokens can trigger Olivia with/without needing to use mana: Bitterblossom , Dreadhorde Invasion , Kher Keep . Feldon of the Third Path is like repeatable reanimation as he can make a token copy of a creature in your graveyard.
Refill your hand with wheels especially Dragon Mage as a creature to reanimate and repeatable wheel. Also Magus of the Wheel who can be reanimated or recurred. As well as many other wheel spells. Azra Oddsmaker is another underrated card in Commander for reanimation strategies and he interacts well with Olivia to draw cards since she has flying.
Could build Olivia in a way that you don't have to rely on Olivia for the deck to function since reanimation is great and flexible in the Rakdos colors.
June 3, 2019 4:54 a.m.
Tymna the Weaver would be my choice as she is a lovely source of cards especially in an aggressive deck. Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder could also work well as i do love the idea of giving Vial smasher the feirce lifelink.
June 3, 2019 6:58 a.m.
Rakdos, Lord of Riots can be a decent Commander, and you could run Rakdos, the Showstopper in the 99, but he requires some build-around. Cards like Subversion , Pyrohemia , Pestilence , and Palace Siege can help you get damage in to be able to cast him and use his mechanic to cast creatures for less. Some small CMC critters that tap to deal one damage are also good for getting him out onto the field. But this suite of cards can take up much needed slots, so consider carefully when building around him. Cheap, early drop aggro helps too, but you need to include at least around 7 to hope of getting one early enough to do what you want.
June 3, 2019 8:05 p.m.
June 4, 2019 4:12 a.m.
I just dont get Why demon tribal is bad Red black has a good removal package, also has hand disruption. Most of the demons are 5 and 6 mana cost and they have decent abilities The same tribal stuff carries over. Like heralds horn urza's power plant and door of destinies to name a few. As well of a hand full or universal artifact mana producers Locket, signed, darksteel ignot, talisman... Theres more 2 and 3 drop mana producers im missing but they exist. Red black has some good enchantments. I'm not saying demon tribal is on par with elves or anything I'm just wondering why is it bad as its been said
June 4, 2019 2:26 p.m.
there are a lot of generic tribal cards that can be used for demons but that is not enough to make a tribe a good tribe. The reasons why Elves/humans/merfolk are so mush better from a tribal point of view is due to three reasons:
1st they have so much tribal cards (like to much to put into one deck) and on top of that they can use the generic tribal cards.
2nd they are cheaper (and can spam out token versions) and for tribal boon effects that is so much more important giving 3 demons that cost 5 +1/+1 is worse than giving 5 elf cards and 5 elf tokens +1/+1 (or merfolk ect)
3rd similarly to the 1st point is you have such a selection of elves (not just tribal effects refered to in point 1). From a quick gatherer search there are 382 elf cards and 117 cards that refer to elves or elf in their text, there are only 107 cards that are demons and 58 cards that refer to demon or demons (which a lot of which are just refering to their name).
Don't get me wrong i don't thing demons are bad cards I just think as a tribe it is one of the lesser tribes. If you really like demons I think you will have a more potent and fun deck having a thematic tribe of demons i.e a non tribal deck that happens to run more than average amounts of demons. or teaming up tribes under Kaalia of the Vast angels,deamons and dragons just running all the big things with the nice ETB effects
June 5, 2019 5:33 a.m.
I agree with what you said hands hands down. But for the sake of conversation doesn't the colors demons usually played in make up for the lack of low cost creatures and amount of creatures (elves for example) by the fact that red black ( the colors i'd play in demon tribal) make up for the fact by being lesser with the extremely fair amount of removal??
In terms of yeah elves humans and merfolk tend to shit out a lot of guys and or have pretty good synergy with in the tribe/ anthem effects but rakdos with decent removal options of both hand and board should have enough to hedge their bets more 50/50. Again I'm merely speaking on paper ive played elves enough to know they just keep on coming but you can slow them down
June 5, 2019 2:16 p.m.
The Elves/Humans/Merfolk tribes, and Goblins/Vampires/Zombies can all go really wide really fast with their low CMCs and token strategies. There isn't really a demon tribal token strategy. And Rakdos has a hell of a time dealing with enchantment removal. Red can do artifacts, but otherwise, your removal package is a lot more limited than with green, white, or even blue (which can at least bounce things, and counter things). Demons are big, for sure, but the tribe doesn't curve out well. A lot like Angels or Sphinx.
June 5, 2019 2:47 p.m.
I don't mean going wide with Enchantments, but that those tribes have so much support that they can go wide very easily.
June 5, 2019 4:59 p.m.
I know rakdos doesnt really have a tokens strat. However I just assumed with the fair amount of spot removal that rakdos has it would keep elves from being as wide and able to drop fatties mid and late game
June 5, 2019 6:28 p.m.
yes the rackdos colours has a nice removal package and access to the best tutors and some reasonable draw so is not a lacking colour combo (like boros lacking draw or simic lacking removal). They do suffer from enchantment removal that can suffer to the decks that love them, a classic wide selessnya deck which does not have to worry about its key enchantments will have a distinct advantage: Privileged Position , Doubling Season , Aura Shards ...ect, or a deck which runs enchantment peices as its win con like Food Chain or Exquisite Blood / Sanguine Bond .
But colour combination is not the problem, all two colour combinations lack something, it is the demon tribal bit I think is the issue no demons actually benefit from other demons, its only the generic pick a creature type tribal that works. They are very expensive cards in terms of mana which dont pay off as much as other cards, what would you rather have one large demon which destroys all opponents creatures or a card like Omniscience which kinda just wins the game.
June 6, 2019 3:01 a.m.
Yeah demons dont benefit like elves do in temrs of lords amd ability buffs ... How ever (not saying this is setting the world on fire) but a fair amount of demons have conditions that let me do somethimg unless you discaed a card sac a creature or lose life and to a certain point those can be...an issue or taxing on your self and by you I mean the opponent.
June 6, 2019 2:54 p.m.
Trust me in not trying to say demons are on par with elves... Not at all but I was just wondering besides the general one weakness that they have just like how every deck has one specific weakness howd they do in a general not broken not stupid competitive commander environment
June 6, 2019 2:59 p.m.
sure I think a red black deck that happened to use a lot of demons would make a quite fun commander deck :) the one you found elsewhere on this site looks like a good starting point
June 6, 2019 5:09 p.m.
And make no mistake obviously the goal is to win and yes I know there's plenty of hardcore purpose built combo decks in commander or any deck type that just takes commander to a competitive level like the legacy format.
How ever I'm trying to win as well but most of the people were I play arent looking to do it in like 5 turns . Also not saying we don't have awesome cards how ever we also dont sink like 1k into a deck. Trust me we all want to win its just how big of a @$$ whole is you're deck going to be to do that lol... That's all lol But I'll have to post a deck that I was thinking of based on the shell of a cards that link I had ealier on in the post and tweek it to my liking or what I think will work .. I'll be sure to link it here so I can get your feed back :)
June 6, 2019 7:04 p.m.
sounds delightful :) I look foward to the deck and to clarify i do like playing non-asshole win turn 5 decks, I recently built wolf tribal under Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves :P. I look forward to seeing your list! who did you decide for the commander?
June 7, 2019 5:11 a.m.
oh also if you wanted to keep it as demon as possible whislt fleshing out the lower part of your curve try changeling/shapeshifters. I know its not quite demons thematically but its closer than nothing:
June 7, 2019 5:23 a.m.
I'm torn between rakdos show stopper for the sheer fact that even if just one of the coin flips goes my way its a 6/6 for 6 mana with at least one random kill spell on it and lets face it it wont backfire on me lol. And vial smasher just for the fact any first spell I cast is a random missle to some ones dome it may not be a demon but that doesn't mean everything else cant be.... Or I'll just keep show stopper as my general and out vial smasher in the 99 for the lawls that if I draw I just start using my creatures as not sacrificed flings but with mana not power
June 7, 2019 11:19 a.m.
Some interesting additions :) However, you curve is far too weighted, you either need more ramp (such as running the other rackdos or a lot more rocks) or you need to drop the costs of your cards.
June 10, 2019 10:42 a.m.
You should probably run around 10 mana ramp sources, and your land count should probably go up to around 37 with such a top-heavy deck. Talisman of Indulgence , Rakdos Signet , Worn Powerstone , Thran Dynamo , and even Iron Myr , Copper Myr , Alloy Myr , and Plague Myr work in a deck like this. Hazoret's Monument can be decent. Charcoal Diamond and Fire Diamond come into play tapped, but only cost 2 apiece.
June 10, 2019 9:30 p.m.
June 10, 2019 9:32 p.m.
Okay thanks and yeah it all makes sense.....any idea what to take out?? I'm all ears
June 11, 2019 12:02 a.m.
I'm just weary of cutting bottom end removal because its been stated this deck is clearly a late game deck
June 11, 2019 12:03 a.m.
oh do not cut bottom end removal pieces you might have to cut some top end big things.
yes Rocks as in rakdos signed locket and mind stones and all the things bushido_man96 recommended. Although personally I would lean away from the myrs because they are more likly to get removed, the extra body does not help you much, they suffer from summoning sickness and Rakdos TSS might kill them when he lands.
Cut wise i would probably ditch:
Fate Unraveler Underworld Dreams these cards i would only really put in a deck where you are making them draw cards Nekusar, the Mindrazer for example. really the minor amounds of damage they do is not worth the card slot.
now onto the maybe cuts, this section I'm more hesitant but if you say they work they probably do:
Halo Hunter how often do you see angels?