|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Mercadian Masques (MMQ)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Exile a creature you control: Add X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the exiled creature's converted mana cost plus one. Spend this mana only to cast creature spells.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (8)||NOGzFTW , robbnoble , angesoir , themindbullet , Shiromakuro , Duct-Tape-Guardian , seajay02 ,|
|Want (17)||MADMatt7777 , notsaying , XVicarious , Lawliet , chaosumbreon87 , imapuncha , CastleSiege , CryAll , Cacosan , dododestroyer , shoebox , mango_channel , Chill_Casual , Facecheck , MeteoricChimera , CommunistBastard , Staizer|
Food Chain Discussion
7 hours ago
n0bunga I guess that's fair, again, I was just going off of what I was told, I don't play Yisan at all. Animar at least has some protection on it, and normally will only get removed by blue bounce effects, but Yisan, the Wanderer Bard will get hit by stuff like Swords to Plowshares, Dismember, etc. I do run Yisan in my Selvala list, but I know it is separate for the commander, so I'll take your word on it.
cvarena21989 now your deck only has a 3 card combo (CFE creature like Eternal Scourge, Food Chain, and outlet like Impact Tremors), that is very slow, I wouldn't call it cEDH competitive at all. On another note, how does Carrion Feeder, Eternal Scourge, Food Chain, and Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper go infinite? Like you need to be in magical christmas land to get them all, but I still don't know how you win from there, no creatures can die infinitely with it to trigger Sek'Kuar, because if you sacrifice Eternal Scourge to Carrion Feeder, you can't get it back, and if you sacrifice sek'kuar the deathkeeper to it, it won't trigger since it says 'whenever another nontoken creature dies'. Your deck doesn't even really work, let alone act competitively.
Using Blood Artist, or Zulaport Cutthroat with the combo requires it to be a 4 card combo that needs like 9 mana, and why do you bring up Fire Covenant, it doesn't do anything here unless you have infinite life, which you can only get from Blood Artist, or Zulaport Cutthroat, in which case you already won.
Look I am trying to help you out, but jesus man, you come in saying you have a competitive deck, and normally I am like "Oh, it works well, it is just a little fragile or slow," but your deck doesn't even work. Now that I think about it, Carnage Altar doesn't work either, since the infinite mana you have from Food Chain needs to be done on creatures, which the ability from Carnage Altar isn't.
8 hours ago
8 hours ago
So no, it isn't competitive or ever going to win turns 4-6 consistently, even if it could, 3-4 minimum should be the average win-turns for a fast combo deck.
Unless I am missing something? Do you have another way to getting the tokens?
1 day ago
Just realized that this deck is illegal in 1 v 1 commander, because of Sylvan Library, and more importantly, Food Chain. Looks like I will be strictly using this deck in multiplayer, but that sucks...
3 weeks ago
No, the archetype is redless/witchmaw Hermit Druid combo.
Also, Sidisi/Prossh/Tazri are Sultai, Jund, and 5 color, so they would be separate Food Chain lists on color basis, Thrasios/Tymna and Atraxa are witch/redless, and so aren't in the same boat.
3 weeks ago
Commonly control loses card advantage in 1 to 1 trades, because there are two opponents who didn't lose cards, but you did, if for each trade you make, you draw a card, the trade is a 1 for nothing. It is straight gravy. Honestly it is a 2 for nothing, since you got a drake. 2 for nothing is absurdly powerful.
The issue is blue doesn't have the best tutors, and that will mean you won't get this level of gravy often, but we can try to optimize the list to survive until you can, or until we find another card drawing engine.
There may be a problem here that you have noticed, you still spend the mana of each card you cast. We have to make sure your answers are very cheap for you to win. I want 0 mana spells, 1 mana spells, and 2 mana spells as your answers. If they are any higher, they have to either:
A: be castable for a alternate cost to make it cheaper (Force of Will, delve spells, etc.)
If all of that is done, we need to talk card draw, outside of engines, engines are great, but we can't just run engines, they are slow, clunky, and few-and far between. You run plenty of the next point, cantrips. Let us take the best option, Brainstorm. It is absurdly powerful, one mana to dig 3 cards, at instant speed, using up mana that otherwise would have been wasted, if you held up mana on the opponents turn. It helps find the answer or counterspell you need, all in response to the Food Chain you can't let resolve.
You run a number of cantrips, even some bad ones I would switch, like Telling Time, it may look like an Anticipate, but being forced to top a card sucks. I would run Anticipate over it any day, but you already run that, so toss in a Preordain, I promise, it is worth it tenfold. Quicken would be another drop, toss in Kindred Discovery over it or something.
Cantrips are nice, but good card draw, like Fact or Fiction, you know, a way to get more cards in your hand than you had, they do cost mana. 4 mana is topping it off, and it has to be instant speed for me to consider it at 4 mana, but FoF fits the bill. Windfall should be run, as the control player, before an engine hits, you need to spend more cards than your opponents do to keep threats of the field. Windfall gets you the new hand, and tosses out whatever cards your opponent tutored out.
The trick with sweepers it to hit as much as possible, and be 4-2 mana, or do other great things. Cyclonic Rift is an example of a great removal spell, that occasionally can double as a sweeper, but shouldn't be held back for that effect. Whelming Wave is pretty good at sweeping opponents, I would drop Inundate for it.
Most of your creatures I could drop for more tutors and answers and card draw Solemn Simulacrum isn't worth it, as it doesn't have flash, it wastes a turn and doesn't win you the game, you could lose it if an opponent combos out because you couldn't answer it. Toss in a Mana Leak or something in it's place.
Others I would suggest dropping for basically the same reason are as follows: Archaeomancer, Burnished Hart, Chasm Skulker, Docent of Perfection Flip, Duplicant, Fatespinner, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Phyrexian Metamorph, Portal Mage, Sower of Temptation, Thing in the Ice Flip, Trinket Mage, Vedalken Shackles, Mindslaver and Runechanter's Pike.
All of these drops will allow for more space for answers, card draw, and a little bit more ramp, such as Fellwar Stone, Sky Diamond, Coldsteel Heart, etc. More answers like Pongify, Mindbreak Trap, Snap, and other answers can allow for exponentially more ways to stop your opponents.
Not all answers are great though, Boomerang is a card I would drop for a better hate-piece like Pithing Needle, Grafdigger's Cage, or any other decent hate-piece, like Silent Arbiter for a meta in which beat-down is regular, or you see a lot of Tymna the Weaver lists. Damping Sphere against storm, or whatever else you need.
In conclusion, I'll probably write up a rough list for this style of game, and good luck!
3 weeks ago
Just so I don’t clutter the Tier forum :)
On the contrary, Gitrog can be built quite competently on a budget! It’s main combo pieces are Skirge Familiar and Dakmor Salvage with any wincon. You can even keep it cheap and use Faith of the Devoted as an easy out. The rest of the deck is just ramp and redundancy. You could take my list and cut out the most expensive pieces (which I believe are the Dual land, Imperial Seal, Mox Diamond and Mana Crypt) and still perform adequately.
4 weeks ago
Two stax lists, a midrange list, and five combo lists, all are tier one, and this had not won a single game against them.
I understand that "Competitive is far more than rushing through the first turns for a win, it about gaining of hold of every advantage the deck offers with the given hand and draws." I started this by going over the three competitive archetypes, combo, stax and control, this lists offers about nothing to all three of those archetypes.
Your list runs no powerful combos, no stax locks, and extremely little control. Your commander synergies very little with the deck, and runs no ramp, minimal card draw, and bad countermagic.
Lets take a look at this deck considered competitive:
The best you can do is a Tome Scour, of course this won't mill the card on top, as they did it on your end step, but whatever.
Wow, you have all of 1 card that is actually castable turn 1. Half of your non-land cards require 4+ mana to cast. Many cEDH decks require 3 or less mana to cast every spell in their deck. You run all of 0 pieces of ramp, and no efficient way to win a game against those decks cosnidering even your commander won't cheat them out until turn 8 on your curve.
That is fine though, that means you aren't a fast-paced combo build, it doesn't mean you are not competitive though, stax and control can be great decks, that win very late in the game, turn 8-20 occasionally are when they win.
Stax decks attempt to shut out their combo opponents, you opponent over with Food Chain + Eternal Scourge trying to make infinite mana? Sphere of Safety shuts them down. Try to go off with turns in Narset, Enlightened Master, Stranglehold that. Trying to beat my face in with Blood Pod, Moat that. Then I will go off with infinite flying Pestermite tokens turn 13 with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker after all of you can't do anything.
What does this deck have in terms of stax?
Well, it has War Tax, which require mana that you cannot efficiently use against a Blood Pod deck, as they will stax you out before you them, Armageddon and Ravages of War are a blowout to this deck since you don't run artifact or creature mana. Propaganda would be a better choice, despite not being good enough a choice to make this deck competitive.
Opposition and Aphetto Grifter are decent options for token builds with tons of creatures, on the upkeep of an opponent's turn, you tap down all of their lands, it is pretty good, but as this deck can't do that before it will die, they aren't very good at a competitive table.
Frozen AEther this is truely the best stax you run, it can stop some Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combos, slows down other peoples mana in terms of dorks, rocks, and lands. It is also good as it doesn't affect you, if you could run a Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault or anything to make it come down before your opponents win, then it might be useful.
Fatespinner at least it is in your tribe, otherwise it would just occasionally deny 1 or 2 damage, any time a player needs combat, they win that turn. If they do, they you deny a card, and die immediately after, otherwise they take away a combat they wouldn't need anyway.
Orbs of Warding good card if it was a couple mana less, or you could control/stax a game to pull it off, otherwise it doesn't need to be here.
All in all, you aren't a stax deck, you run little to no good stax cards, the few you run that sees play require ramp.
Well, I guess this is a bad cEDH deck, or control. You run 21 spells that could be used as removal or countermagic, 10 that are 4 or less mana. This is awful for a control deck, unless they are Force of Will and just look like 5 mana, or you run a lot of ramp, sadly neither are true.
Again, this is not a bad deck, simply a casual one, not cEDH material. That is why your list isn't competitive, yes, I have run a spellshaper tribal Damia deck at state level play, not a tournament at state level, just a game at a grand prix side event. That deck isn't good, but it is fun. State level play means nothing. cEDH is actual competitive decks, unlike this one, playing at the upper echelons of the format, in fact, it is so different compared to normal EDH, that is it called cEDH.
This may be winning games where you play, but I have tested it, and I implore you to sit down next to some good stax and fast-paced combo players, against $5600 The Gitrog Monster builds, $6000 General Tazri builds, $5000 Teferi, Temporal Archmage builds, and tell me this deck will win a game against them.
You are wrong, not based on my own opinion, but with playtesting a deck that supposedly wins by turn 10 at the slowest, goldfishing it.
I have yet to see another deck in ALL OF CEDH, that goldfishes a win, or complete stax lock down past turn 6, ever.
Your deck is misleading by using the hub "competitive", all I want is for you to remove it.