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Creature — Ooze
Predator Ooze is indestructible.
Whenever Predator Ooze attacks, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Predator Ooze this turn dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Predator Ooze.
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Predator Ooze Discussion
2 weeks ago
Just so it's listed here too, -X/-X from cards like Tragic Slip isn't considered damage at all, or destruction. It's basically the temporary version of a number of -1/-1 counters, much like a card that grants +X/+X until end of turn, like Might of the Masses is the temporary version of a card that places +1/+1 counters like River Heralds' Boon. It doesn't kill a creature by assigning it lethal damage or destroying it, it kills it by simply making its toughness much lower and letting state-based actions do the rest.
And yes, the state-based action of a creature with 0 toughness going to the graveyard, and the Cleanup Step at the end of a turn, are different things. As mentioned, state-based actions are constantly checked. The Cleanup Step at the end of the turn just helps clear things up and "reset" them for the next player's turn. This is where Tragic Slip would wear off if it didn't kill the creature (cast without morbid on something tougher than 1, or applied to a creature like Impervious Greatwurm with a toughness greater than 13).
2 weeks ago
They key thing here is that indestructible doesn't "ignore state based checks". It only means the object can't be destroyed by "destroy" effects or lethal marked damage. Having 0 or less toughness, the legend rule, and everything else still applies. If Predator Ooze has 13 or less total toughness and someone hits it with a morbid Tragic Slip, it will be put into the graveyard right after Slip resolves. It won't wait to die until some later point in the turn.
And to be clear: the game doesn't wait until the cleanup step to check for state-based actions. They're checked right before each time a player would get priority, all throughout the turn.
2 weeks ago
State-based actions are checked whenever a player would receive priority, not just at the cleanup step.
So let's say you have a Predator Ooze with 7 counters on it, and during your first main phase your opponent Murders another creature to get Morbid (or makes something die in any number of other ways), then casts Tragic Slip on your Ooze. Your 8/8 Ooze gets -13/-13, making it -5/-5. The next time a player would receive priority (either to resolve another spell, or to pass an empty stack to move on to the Combat Phase), state-based actions are checked and see that your Ooze has toughness of 0 or less, so your Ooze goes to the graveyard. We're not even at combat yet and it's already dead.
Indestructible doesn't ignore 0 toughness, not even until cleanup. It only ignores lethal damage marked on the creature, and "destroy" effects.
2 weeks ago
I'm really lost. Where does the legend rule enter in? Why is Tragic Slip wearing off? It's normally used as a kill spell, and can kill Predator Ooze before it doesn't have counters without morbid. There's a lot of information about cleanup here, but this interaction usually doesn't make it to the cleanup step.
2 weeks ago
I've noticed a lot of questions about this, its quite upsetting really with such vague standing in the rules. So id like to clarify how ive been treating this and ask for feed back. Apologies to some, you may think this is old news, it has become relevant for me recently again. So say you have Predator Ooze and someone Tragic Slips it, so here are how clean up rules work.
514.1 First, if the active player’s hand contains more cards than their maximum hand size (normally seven), they discard enough cards to reduce their hand size to that number. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
514.2 Second, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage marked on permanents (including phased-out permanents) is removed and all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
514.3 Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception:
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger “at the beginning of the next cleanup step”). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.
So basically, wouldn't tragic slip end, then "legend rule" takes effects after? Just trying to understand because this is super important how the phases work. I need to be 100% on this. A card like Black Sun's Zenith would cause removal, but the slip would not? Because it is resolved before the Ooze?
3 weeks ago
Okay so I have two different decks that might help you. If you want me, once again, to go more in-depth, I certainly will and I would be happy to recommend specific additions. I'll actually be recommending specific cuts right here.
Ajani, Caller of the Pride is not very good. It's suuuper slow and while it does put counters on things, its mana is weird and frankly you're not gonna be casting it on turn 3. It's totally not worth casting after turn 3 and barely worth casting on.
Cathars' Crusade is probably not worth it, especially for the few creatures you're casting AFTER turn 5.
Gyre Sage is so suboptimal, like you're really not putting that mant counters on it early-game, and in the late game it does almost nothing.
You're gonna cast Predator Ooze on like turn 5 or 6. Not. Worth. It.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds is not very good. It's just a mana dork, and yeah eventually it's big mana, but like Gyre Sage, you'll just play your hand and then you're living on topdecks the rest of the game.
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave isn't that good. He'd normally be useful if you were bringing him back from the graveyard, but you're... not.
Octopus Umbra is a decent card but it's not the best in this deck. Not only could you use it better elsewhere, but there are better cards you could put in its place here.
Ghoulcaller Gisa is, once again, not bad here, but there are just better cards- ESPECIALLY in the 5-drop slot!
Bear Umbra is another really good card, but really it could be used better in other places and better things could be put in its place here.
Gift of Immortality is weak in general, and even worse here.
Your entire grave recursion package is kinda shoehorned in and would be better in its own deck. Maybe build Muldrotha, the Gravetide?
Rashmi, Eternities Crafter is meh, and here it's a genuinely confusing addition. It's a fine card but it's just not a good addition here.
Deathbringer Regent is fine I guess, but once again, this deck is just not the place for it.
So once again, if you want me to drop some specific cards to replace my suggested cuts, I will certainly go into more detail. But for now, happy brewing and have some deck links!
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 3 | 3 COMMENTS | 215 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS
Commander / EDH
8 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
1 month ago
Vulturous Zombie is a super fun card, but I'm not sure what you'd like to move around for it. Probably a sideboard card, in the event you need to get over waves of tokens / are up against a lot of flying.
Kalonian Hydra is an absolute must in this deck.
Avatar of the Resolute is a perfect mid-to-late game card. Yes, while he costs merely , he's best played later on when your board is a bit bigger.
Ridgescale Tusker is a super fun card. I run it in my Selesnya Counters deck.
Inspiring Call is perfect for full-swings and card advantage. Since it's an Instant, you can cast it during your opponent's turn and draw a ton of cards and not be forced into discard immediately as you only discard down to 7 during your own end step.
Predator Ooze is just outright awesome.
Dragonscale Boon is a nice card, but I think it is redundant at this point.
Ancestral Vengeance is actually kind of a nice black card for +1/+1 counters, though it may be inappropriate in this deck. It's really good to kill Indestructible creatures. You hit them for lethal, then 2nd main phase the AV onto them and they die to state-based-actions. But I'm not entirely sure how viable it is in a deck like this.
You'll want to bolster (hehe) your resources a bit more. Typically, running 1x of everything is a bad idea, but since it's casual I'm assuming this was built with cards laying around. It's a nice foundation to work with, so I hope I was able to make some good suggestions for you! :D
1 month ago
Then you can look at invicible stuff, you won't have to care about them dying fighting Darksteel Colossus Myojin of Life's Web Predator Ooze Soul of New Phyrexia Stonehoof Chieftain are pretty fun and/or beefy creatures, with Asceticism to protect them from other spells