|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Magic Origins (ORI)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
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Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
When Pia and Kiran Nalaar enters the battlefield, put two 1/1 colorless Thopter artifact creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield.
, Sacrifice an artifact: Pia and Kiran Nalaar deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
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Pia and Kiran Nalaar Discussion
1 day ago
Thopter Engineer might be really good. I can cast it off of Sram's Expertise and give all the token haste immediatly.As mentioned above, i'm not really sold on cards sporting double mana requirements other than Sram's Expertise since it is just that good in the deck. Pia and Kiran Nalaar specifically seem a bit steep with , which is more or less just a splash until now.
Concerning Whirler Rogue i'm not really sure he synergises good with swarming the board. I believe he is better in decks that produce less token, but do have big beaters that dont have to connect often to win the game. He also cannot be casted off of Sram's Expertise which would weaken it, if both are in hand and which i plan on relying more on in the future. I'll keep it in mind though.
Thank you for contributing to this.
1 week ago
2 weeks ago
Remaining cards needed for Grixis:
1x Steam Vents
3 weeks ago
I like the feedback, but I can't say I agree too much. I'll go through everything you mentioned, and explain.When it comes to anything with prowess, the copies of the spells from Zada, Hedron Grinder aren't cast, but simply appear on the stack. Thus, each copy does NOT trigger prowess, rendering the ability nearly useless. As for Ogre Battledriver and other haste effects, I simply don't get enough creatures in a single turn to merit that. The deck doesn't explode creatures onto the board, it explodes the creatures' power and toughness that are already there.
As for enchantments and artifacts in general, such as Dictate of the Twin Gods, Flameshadow Conjuring, and Panharmonicon, the deck benefits more from simply having more bodies on the field than it does from these effects. Even effects like Genesis Chamber, Warstorm Surge, and Flameshadow Conjuring which combo with creatures aren't as effective as simply getting more creatures. In fact, I'll go through these individually. Genesis Chamber doesn't help very much, because I'm trying to get as many tokens as I can. Sounds like a contradiction, yes, but Genesis Chamber only triggers off of nontoken creatures, meaning it gets significantly less value than probably any card I could cut for it. Warstorm Surge is simply way too much mana for an underwhelming effect. Because the deck has a lot of 1/1's, Warstorm Surge is almost exactly equal to it's 2 mana counterpart, Impact Tremors, which makes it not even remotely worth the cost. Flameshadow Conjuring doesn't work because, again, it only works with nontoken creatures. However, it also uses up my precious red mana, and the token disappears. It's just not on the battlefield long enough to do anything useful with it. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker also already does this, and better than it does. Also, the deck just doesn't have enough ETB to try and build more around it, such as using Panharmonicon, however Purphoros, God of the Forge because he's also a creature, and Impact Tremors because it's very cheap mana, and very efficient. Notice it deals 1 damage to each player, while Warstorm Surge only deals damage to target creature or player. Only one target.
Also, any draw that also discards is more detrimental than helpful. Yes, Chandra, Flamecaller can refill my hand, but if I'm in the situation requiring my hand to be refilled I should have won the previous turn. The same goes for any wheel type effect, as well as exile off the top of the deck effect. The reason Rile works is because I control the stack. I let it deal damage to a creature that survives, then draw a card, one by one until I get a card that buffs toughness, then cast it at instant speed, assuming I can, targeting Zada, Hedron Grinder of course, and then all THOSE go on the stack and trigger before the rest of the Rile's, thus all my previously 1/1 tokens survive and I fill my hand and buff my board to win. The same goes for absolutely any spell that single targets Zada, Hedron Grinder that says "Draw a card" on it. And yes, even the ones meant to target opponents boards, because drawing half my deck for 1-2 mana lets me get the buff spells I need to literally win. Yes, that means Stun is good and staying. Panic and Balduvian Rage are also great because they can set me up for the next turn, meaning I don't have to try and win immediately. This leads me to Kari Zev's Expertise, because of how the stack resolves and how I can manipulate it, I can cast it on Zada, Hedron Grinder and then it will be copied for all of my other creatures. Not only is this a source of haste, but how it will play out is, let the first Kari Zev's Expertise resolve on a creature of mine, then play the free card, targeting Zada, Hedron Grinder, and let that and all of it's copies resolve. I will have tried to cast a card that draws, as long as I draw immediately. With all the new cards in my hand, the second Kari Zev's Expertise resolves, and then I cast another spell for free, targeting Zada, Hedron Grinder, and then that spell resolves, and hopefully also drew cards. At this point, I should have enough combat tricks to win the game, and still have hopefully another 3 or 4 Kari Zev's Expertise's left on the stack. I'll cast free combat tricks from each one of those, and should win that turn. Kari Zev's Expertise is one of the most consistent ways to pop off in the deck.
As for the creature curve, I'd like you to take a look again at how strong each creature in the deck is. I'll go further into detail in a second. First, the artifacts I have cap out at 2 mana, and 4 out of 6 either give mana, reduce mana costs, or draw cards, all effectively helping me reach the creatures and allowing me to play them. Also notice the creatures that literally give me mana for almost free. Treasonous Ogre for example. Pay 3 life for a mana? That's easy, the max life I pay is 18. That's less than half my life total. Normally I'll be paying a cap of 9-12. Also, consider that cards like Emrakul's Hatcher is more than 5 mana for a 3/3. It's 5 mana for 4 bodies, which can all be buffed, and give card draw. That goes for any creature that creates a token in the whole deck. Look at it as mana cost per body, rather than mana cost vs power/toughness value. I also don't want to run tribal, because it would require too many cards to shift over to more tribal base, and slow down the deck in its entirety.
Now for Neheb, the Eternal, and other more expensive creatures, I'll go through one by one. Charmbreaker Devils is interesting, because 6 mana is literally the very top of the curve, and as I've already stated, his second ability won't trigger per copy, only on the initial spell. The real deal with him, is that his second ability gives him +4/+0 instead of +1/+1, which is a much better deal, and stacks up MUCH faster. As well as with his first ability, it allows me to continue to have steam when I really shouldn't. Emrakul's Hatcher, 5 mana, 4 bodies. Not much else to be said, just great value for the mana cost, because have 4 extra targets for my copied spells is great. Pia and Kiran Nalaar are in the same category as Emrakul's Hatcher. Goblin Dark-Dwellers is also a card that gives me fuel when I should be out. It also works very well with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to continue casting spells of my choice out of my graveyard. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, I don't really have to explain why this is here, do I? Oh, and yes, it combos with combat celebrant for potentially infinite combat steps. Mirrorwing Dragon, this should also be obvious why it's in the deck. Neheb, the Eternal, is great because it helps set up for following turns. If I can get Neheb out early, and deal some damage, I can get enough mana to cast more creatures for my following turn. If I don't get Neheb out fast, then too bad for me, I'm sure I had something else to play. Siege-Gang Commander, 5 mana, 4 bodies, enough said. Goblin Rally 5 mana, 4 bodies, enough said.
The thing with this deck, is it can work with a low amount of tokens. Yeah, higher amounts of tokens are preferred, but 4-5 is the minimum. Which is obtainable through a single card. I don't need 20 goblin tokens, I only need 6 and expedite. I don't need them to attack the turn they hit the board, so I don't require haste. Hopefully this explains why all the cards that are in, are in, and I think I responded to everything in your comment.
3 weeks ago
Many card choices are meta-dependent (e.g., blast duo, grid) or depend on how you play edh (e.g., if you don't play against 3 or more opponents, Luminarch Ascension is not good). The ones I'm testing are usually not great cards, as they occupy flexible slots, and I'm pretty sure Pia and Kiran Nalaar will probably go at some point.
Dire Fleet Daredevil is a good card in multiplayer edh. I've never been in a situation in which it did not have a decent target. Most of the time, it will target card filter (brainstorm, ponder, etc.) or cheap tutors (demonic, vampiric, mystic tutors). Ocasionally, you can target card draw from your opponents or removal. It's always been decent, so I'll keep it for now. I'd play it over Recoup for sure.
1 month ago
Thanks to everyone for the great feedback:
ToolmasterOfBrainerd, Bob is a must in Jund. (Or Grim Flayer if you prefer). I prefer Bob though because he gives consistent card advantage and helps feed LotV's +1. Bob is excellent in any match-up he sticks around in. The card advantage outweighs the life loss and is part of the reason I am still not sure of my discard split. Collective Brutality, Kitchen Finks, and Scooze help gain back life lost from Bob. I really want to run 3 Scooze and just might cut Finks to make room.
xTCBxNightmare, Jund generally has 6-7 discard spells in the MB. With BBE now in the mix, those numbers are lower as cascading into discard is just not where you want to be. Thoughtseize increases the chance of being able to grab something when this does happen. And it lets you snag Jace. I'm back down to 3/2 favoring Thoughtseize and a 4th Thoughtseize may turn up in the SB. I think I prefer Collective Brutality over a 4th Thoughtseize for now.
I've dropped Pia and Kiran Nalaar for Thrun, the Last Troll. Good catch.
I don't want to dump that much money into Kolaghan's Command right now. Until I see a deficiency in gameplay, I'm fine with 2 copies.
xTCBxNightmare and scrotality, Kozilek's Return was an oversight. Made the switch from Anger and cut one Fulminator Mage for 2 copies of Kozilek's Return.
DarkStarStorm, I prefer Bob over Flayer. BBE and Bolt are good enough at handling Jace for me.
1 month ago
Found a few other potential token generating creatures:
1 month ago
Having been back and look at bit at it, I think you can make a really funny RG deck which is all about your topdeck and card advantage.
4 Bloodbraid Elf (that's what it was all about from the start, right?)
4 Courser of Kruphix (normally I would be careful about playing more than 1, but since the top card is really important, 4 is ok)
2 Vizier of the Menagerie (topdecks matter)
2 Domri Rade (like I said, the topdeck is important)
X Temple of Abandon (to manipulate the topdeck)
X Tireless Tracker (that's the last echo of your landfall theme, would be better with fetches, though)
There's some 5 cmc creatures that could also be useful in a deck like this - Thragtusk, Glorybringer... anything else, that would give you some sort of semi-card advantage. But the main problem will most likely be the early turns of the game against fast decks, so a bit of Pyroclasm could also be necessary. Anyway, there's plenty of space left, so if you have anything particular, you'd like to cascade into, you can easily add that.