Help With Protection Card Rules
Deck Help forum
Posted on Jan. 18, 2018, 8:36 p.m. by Jaysterbaby
I have Absolute Law and I am playing against someone with a Krenko, Mob Boss deck. I was wondering in my opponent can still attack my life points directly. With creatures, sorcery, or instants, etc. For example: He has Goblin War Strike
Jaysterbaby says... #3
So say he has 20 red goblin tokens and I have 4 creatures on the field, I can only use the Protection against 4 goblin tokens the rest would attack my health?
January 18, 2018 9:48 p.m.
Exactly. you can use your four creatures to block four of his token and your creatures won't take any combat damage. however the remaining 16 token would still deal damage to you since they were not blocked.
January 18, 2018 9:52 p.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #5
So what do you suggest is a good way to defeat a Krenko Deck? this is what he has.. He can brutally take with out with his army of tokens, sometimes within 5 turns. or those goblin grenades and war strikes
Creatures (22)4 Battle Squadron4 Goblin Arsonist2 Goblin Chieftain1 Goblin Glory Chaser3 Goblin Rabblemaster1 Goblin Razerunners2 Goblin Ringleader2 Krenko, Mob Boss3 Warren Instigator
Sorceries (9)1 Cleaver Riot2 Goblin Grenade4 Goblin War Strike1 Hordeling Outburst1 Krenko's Command
Lands (24)2 Blighted Gorge2 Forgotten Cave20 Mountain
Planeswalkers (2)1 Chandra Ablaze1 Chandra Nalaar
Instants (3)2 Brute Strength1 Tarfire
January 18, 2018 10:01 p.m.
Tivadar's Crusade for example.
Boardwipes in general, Fumigate may be helpful too since you gain life. Kor Firewalker is a card he can do absolutely nothing against.
and if he really relies on 1/1 tokens Illness in the Ranks is worth considering too.
January 18, 2018 10:14 p.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #7
Thank you for these cards.Will have to look into them more
January 18, 2018 10:17 p.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #8
Would Kor Firewalker could only block once tho. He would still be able to attack my life points. But it do like the others you gave me
January 18, 2018 10:20 p.m.
Ghostly Prison stops his huge attacks. Lightmine Field is great. Smoke and laugh. Winter Orb after you wipe his board with a Wrath of God. Circle of Protection: Red would work too
January 18, 2018 10:34 p.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #10
Lightmine Field can you give me an example of how this card would work? sounds intriguing.
also Circle of Protection: Red is nice but only blocks one source not multiple. i've looked into that one before
January 18, 2018 10:42 p.m.
With the circle of protection, you pay 1 mana per source. Select the sources that would deal the most damage that turn and prevent it. If he attacks for 20, then casts goblin war strike, you can pay 1 and prevent the war strike damage entirely. With Lightmine Field, if he attacks with 1 gob, his attacking creature takes 1 damage. If he attacks with 5 gobs, his attacking goblins take 5 damage each. I run it in my Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis deck to stop fast token decks like krenko.
January 18, 2018 10:57 p.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #13
For Lightmine Field would the goblins attack go through first and then the enchantment damages them. Or as soon as the creatures the enchantment is activated and destroys them
January 19, 2018 9:26 a.m.
Lightmine Field deals damage as soon as the creature(s) attack so before the creatures deal damage to you.
January 19, 2018 9:30 a.m.
GeeksterPlays says... #15
Depending on the colours you run and how much you're wanting to build a deck just to combat that specific token threat, there are lots of answers to pesky token-making decks.
BLACK: Illness in the Ranks, Bile Blight, Engineered Plague, Massacre Wurm could just kill him on the spot, Echoing Decay,
BLUE: Leyline of Singularity, Stifle his Krenko, AEtherspouts attackers, Cyclonic Rift overloaded, Wash Out choosing red, Stormtide Leviathan, Echoing Truth
WHITE: Path to Exile Krenko, Wrath of God, Day of Judgment, Fumigate, Planar Outburst, Lightmine Field, Magus of the Tabernacle, an Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite will stop him playing anything ever again, Magus of the Moat, Ghostly Prison, Leyline of Sanctity stops all burn spells
MULTICOLOUR: Supreme Verdict, Merciless Eviction, Pernicious Deed,
ARTIFACT: Ratchet Bomb, Scourglass, Maelstrom Pulse,
Or play dirty and play RED back against him; Blasphemous Act, Volcanic Fallout, Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods, Scouring Sands, Circle of Flame, Mob Rule and take all the goblins and kill him with them!
January 19, 2018 9:50 a.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #16
Thanks BabyK and GeeksterElesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is nice but at a 7 cost, I could be dead before playing that card.
Magus of the Moat is nice, I like that one
Leyline of Sanctity definitely good for burn spells.
I have a Red(Dino) and White (Angel Deck)70 Cards right now its hard to decide what to toss and what to keepNot sure whether to do 60, 70 or 80 card deck
I also have Linvala, Keeper of Silence for that pesky Krenko tapsand Pyroclasm of course
this is my list so far
1x Cast Out
1x Absolute Law
1x Devil's Play
1x Angel's Tomb
11x Plains
11x Mountain
1x Pyroclasm
January 19, 2018 11:13 a.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #17
Also does Goblin Grenade cost onyl 1 for 5 damage to player health? or does he half to sarrifice a Goblin to use that ability, if not then it seems kind of over powered for a 1 cost for 5 player damage
January 19, 2018 12:48 p.m.
Additional costs must be played for the card to work. Think of it as if the "additional cost" language was written in little tiny letters next to the card's regular mana cost. If you do not pay the additional cost, you cannot cast the spell.
It still is a very powerful spell in Goblin decks, since it is essentially 5 damage for 2 mana.
January 19, 2018 12:56 p.m.
GeeksterPlays says... #20
re: the above list of cards, decks work best when they are multiples of cards rather than a ton of 1-of's. You're closer to a Commander Deck than a Casual Modern one there.
As a basic rule, 24 land, 20 creatures, 16 non-creatures and tweak from there.
Choose you best 6 creatures and run 3 copies of them to ensure you get them. Run 4 of any 3-drop or less, run 2 of any 5-drop or more.
I'd suggest looking at some of the deckbuilding guides you can find online for more.
January 22, 2018 10:15 a.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #21
Geeskter: This wont't work against a Krenko deck as he is able to produce multiple 1/1 goblins and other buffs, that even tho I would have multiples his 20+ goblin tokens would destroy me, All the 1/ ofs that I have do work as they either have Vigilance or a tap feature that destroys his tokens by doing 1 damage to each target creatures
January 22, 2018 11:20 a.m.
Jaysterbaby, I think you fundamentally misunderstood what GeeksterPlays is trying to say.
When building a deck, your biggest concern should be having the card you need when you need it. In order to improve consistency, you should run more than one of your most important cards.
For example, you are running 1 copy of Lightning Helix. Your odds of having Lightning Helix in your hand on turn 2 are about 13%. Pretty insignificant, and unreliable. Lightning Helix provides sufficient power to kill Krenko. The longer Krenko is in play, the more dangerous he is--you want to make sure you have that kill spell in your hand as quickly as possible. 4 copies of Lightning Helix would give you a 45% chance of having one by turn 2.
A bunch of the cards you have are completely worthless to you. Goblins are fast and deadly, and a mediocre goblin deck can easily steamroll an opponent by turn 5. You, frankly, have too many big, flashy spells with high mana costs--your entire deck should not be bombs. Currently, you have 7 cards with a converted mana cost of 6 or more. That is over a tenth of your deck. You had mentioned you were afraid of playing Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite because of its 7-mana cost, yet still run the comparatively worthless Zetalpa, Primal Dawn, at 8 mana. (Further, you have some very slow cards, such as Dragonmaster Outcast).
Ultimately, you need to decide how you want the deck to play out. Against goblins, cards like Lightmine Field and Ghostly Prison are invaluable. Norn's Annex is another good card, which had not been previously suggested. Goblins do not tend to run white, so they will have to ping themselves in order to attack. You will generally want to cast this card for + paying 4 life, to get it onto the field as soon as possible.
Finally, contrary to what others have said, you should focus on wraths which outright destroy your enemy's creatures. Scouring Sands is not necessarily a good card against goblins. While it looks nice, since it can massacre a bunch of 1/1 tokens for a low mana cost, if your friend is smart, they will have a couple Goblin Chieftains up their sleeves. Suddenly, your two mana-pseudo wrath has become a 2 mana scry.
January 22, 2018 11:52 a.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #23
Lightmine Field would also damage my creatures attacking as well though, correct?
and yea I believe he runs x4 Goblin Chieftain,
Ive done several text plays on this website my Test Deck vs his Krenko Deck that I made and So far unless he gets his good cards out right away I can almost take him out everytime.
January 22, 2018 12:03 p.m.
Yes, Lightmine Field will damage your creatures, but it is a simple matter of who gets hit worse. Goblins rely on swarming the board with low-toughness creatures that attack en masse. This is where Lightmine Field excels--the wider the go, the more damage is dealt. Since damage from Lightmine Field is done as attackers are declared, you will be immune from damage.
Your deck runs several large flying creatures, which could attack alone, or in small groups. This is where Lightmine Field does poorly--attacking with three 4/4s is fairly safe--each takes 3 damage, surviving the Field, and continuing to attack. There are very few flying goblins, and most tend to be extremely poorly costed, or have abilities that prevent them from being used as blockers. As such, your creature only having one health remaining when you assign damage is not a particularly painful drawback.
January 22, 2018 12:18 p.m.
Another pet favorite card of mine that I love for dealing with 1/1 creatures is Izzet Staticaster. It's a repeatable 1 damage wrath that also serves as a blocker. Of course, if you're only looking at Red or White, it's right out, but you still have a ton of options.
Another thing to look for is "functional reprints." These are cards that serve essentially identical purposes, but have different names. They can increase the redundancy of your deck. For example, Ghostly Prison and Propaganda are identical effects, but in different colors (and both are pretty good against tokens). If you want to change up your colors a bit (by splashing blue), you can run:
- 4x Norn's Annex
- 4x Propaganda
- 4x Ghostly Prison
and then laugh when he tries to attack with Goblins. Obviously these don't help you against things like Goblin Grenade, but they are effective token stoppers. With 12 of them, you are very likely to have a copy of one of these by the time your third turn rolls around.
January 22, 2018 12:37 p.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #26
I have 1x Leyline of Sanctity to stop things like Goblin Grenade but its such an expensive card I dont want to spend over $100 for just 4 of those cards
I do like that Ghostly Prison
January 22, 2018 3:18 p.m.
Its not nearly as powerful, but Aegis of the Gods is in your colors and gives you hexproof too. True Believer has a similar effect, bu shroud is symmetrical, so you cant target yourself either. Both come down earlier than the other options I could think of.
January 22, 2018 6:12 p.m.
GeeksterPlays says... #28
Perhaps this will show more what I meant about running multiples and consistency of a deck:
- 3x Leyline of Sanctity
- 4x Lightning Helix
- 4x Lightning Bolt
- 3x Anger of the Gods
- 4x Day of Judgment
- 4x Wrath of God
- 2x Approach of the Second Sun
- 3x Ghostly Prison
- 3x Nevermore (naming Krenko on the first one)
- 3x Demystify
- 3x Norn's Annex
- 2x Oketra's Last Mercy
- 11x Plains
- 11x mountains
Burn his creatures, destroy his enchantments, make yourself hexproof, gain life by burning creatures, reset your life total, wipe his board with wraths, and eventually win when you cast Approach of the Second Sun for the second time.
Not exactly a "classic" control shell, but vs. Goblins it'd do the job more often than not I reckon, and the numbers of each spell mean you have good odds of having whatever you need at any given time.
January 23, 2018 9:39 a.m.
I have a couple comments on GeeksterPlays' decklist:
You should run some duel coloured lands. Shock/Fetch lands, would, of course, be ideal, but then you are looking at around $180.00 for those 8 lands. For a more budget option, I would suggest you run 4x Battlefield Forge. If you want to spend a bit more money (around $5.00 per land), an additional 4x Clifftop Retreat would be a good choice.
Do not be fooled by duel coloured lands that enter the battlefield tapped. You are going against a hyper aggressive tribe, and cannot afford to wait a turn for mana.
Only add Demystify if your opponent has targets for it. There are a number of mono-red enchantments that work well with goblins, but I have seen many goblin decks which eschew enchantments for more goblins. These might be a helpful card to have in your sideboard (i.e. you can swap them in if needed), but might not be worth mainboarding (i.e. keeping in your regular deck).
I would consider replacing the Demystify with Wall of Omens. It provides a solid body which can survive most goblin attacks (many goblins top off at 3 power). It also draws a card, so replaces itself in your hand. While it might die to your own wraths, that's fairly inconsequential--you've likely already saved yourself from one creature and drawn a card.
January 23, 2018 10:02 a.m.
GeeksterPlays says... #30
cdkime He had said earlier in a post that he was having trouble with Five-Alarm Fire hence the suggestion of Demystify :)
I agree with the dual lands, but again the OP had said he didn't want to spend out even for the Leyline of Sanctity's let alone shocks and fetches, I was mostly just trying to convey the idea of how a deck "should" look more than anything rather than a ton of 1-off's.
Totally agree with your extra suggestions though, and given time that list could easily evolve into a nice Jeskai control list if he finds he likes playing non-creatures (like I do :D )
January 23, 2018 10:13 a.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #31
Appreciate the feedback guys, alot go to from, I do have x1 Leyline of Sanctity as an miracle if I get it out in time, Which I have on a few test plays.
Do you know of any enchantments or Artifacts that give all my creatures the ability to attack target creatures or player? So I can aim directly for his boss cards.
January 23, 2018 4:42 p.m.
I am not sure exactly what you mean by that, could you please clarify?
All creatures inherently have the ability to attack another player.
Generally, creatures cannot directly attack another creature. There are cards that allow one creature to "fight" another creature--both creatures deal damage equal to their power to one another, if that is what you are thinking. The overwhelming majority of those cards are in Green. The only other colour with access to fight is Red, and the 3 red spells are (a) instants/sorceries, not permanents, and (b) horrifically poorly costed.
January 23, 2018 4:53 p.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #33
I mean so I can choose what creatures my opponent controls will block what creatures I am attacking with. But that let ALL my creatures choose who they attack.
January 23, 2018 4:57 p.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #34
Like Pounce but an enchantment or Artifact So I can do it each turn
January 23, 2018 5:01 p.m.
First off, unless there is a planeswalker on the field, your creatures will ALWAYS attack the opposing player. There is no choice in the matter.
Odric, Master Tactician allows you to control how your opponent blocks. You can even force your opponent not to block anything!
There are a couple of cards which force opponents to block a single creature, allowing your other creatures to escape unscathed. Search for the following rules text on the Gatherer: "All creatures able to block"
Fight is almost exclusively found in Green (there are 3 red cards, one Devoid card that requires Green mana, and an artifact you have to sacrifice that allow for fighting. Otherwise, the mechanic is exclusively gGeen). It has nothing to do with attacking/blocking. There are no artifacts or enchantments, in any colour, which allow repeatable fights.
January 23, 2018 5:29 p.m.
Jaysterbaby says... #36
What would win in a battleMy 1/2 creature with first strikevsHis 1/1 creature with double stike
January 23, 2018 5:39 p.m.
First strike works by creating an additional damage step, where first strike damage is applied. Creatures with Double strike deal their damage during both the first strike step and the regular damage step. These phases occur one after another.
Let's look at your hypothetical:
You have already gone through the beginning of combat step, and attackers and blockers have been declared. Since there is a creature with first strike at issue, there will be a first strike combat damage step, and a regular combat damage step.
First Strike Combat Damage Step: Both the 1/2 and the 1/1 can deal damage in this step, as both first and double strike allow you to deal damage during this step.
Your 1/2 deals 1 damage to the 1/1. The 1/1 simultaneously does 1 damage to the 1/2.
Your 1/2 takes one damage, and has 1 health remaining. The 1/1 takes one damage, has no health remaining, and dies. Now that damage has been resolved, you move onto the next combat step.
Regular Combat Damage Step: Your 1/2 cannot deal any damage, because it only has First Strike, and thus only deals damage in the First Strike Combat Damage Step. The 1/1 has Double Strike, so normally could deal damage in both phases, but it was already killed, and thus did not survive to deal damage during this step.
Your 1/2 will survive the combat. The 1/1 will not.
An important aside: Even if your creature had Double Strike, it would still not deal damage during the Regular Combat Step, as there is nothing left for it to deal damage to. It has been blocked--the fact the blocker died before the Combat Damage Step is irrelevant (the same is true if they declare their 1/1 a blocker, and you Lightning Bolt it--once the blocker is declared, your creature is blocked, regardless of whether the blocking creature survives).
January 23, 2018 5:52 p.m.
After posting, I wanted to clarify: The above is only for actual combat (i.e. during your combat phase with attacking/blocking).
If you are still talking about cards with Fight (i.e. Pounce), the above is irrelevant. First/Double strike only apply to the combat damage step, and thus have no baring on Fight. Each would merely deal damage to one another--the 1/2 will survive, the 1/1 will die.
Lux_Lunar says... #2
Absolute Law only applies to creatures, so yes he can still attack you and deal damage to you but not to your creatures.
January 18, 2018 9:03 p.m.