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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis
Legendary Creature — Human Soldier
At the beginning of your end step, draw a card. Each player may put a land card from his or her hand onto the battlefield, then each opponent who didn't draws a card.
seshiro_of_the_orochi on Card creation challenge
1 week ago
TypicalTimmy: I guess Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis or Sisay, Weatherlight Captain could easily get it done, but I have to admit, it's a stretch.
seshiro_of_the_orochi on Card creation challenge
1 month ago
Bolt to Behold
Instant
~ deals 3 damage to any target. Add X mana in any combination of colours, where X is the number of cards named ~ in your graveyard.
I just build a casual giant tribal deck with Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis at the helm. Give me a commander for that list that's actually a giant. Bonus points if you can make it to also care about legendary giants.
RNR_Gaming on New secret lair Alert!
4 months ago
Anyways with that whole kickstarter thing going on I noticed that the professor hasn't made a video so in case anyone was wondering
Some regular guys non-foil/foil
Void Winnower - 16.07/20.46
Vengevine - 10.71/12.95
Collector Ouphe - 5.63/33.07
Goblin Settler - 48.71/N/a
Non foil: 81.12 Foil: 115.19
Foil: B / non-foil: C+
There's a good bit of value with this secret lair. Goblin settlers getting its' first foil printing is definitely noteworthy. Also, if you're into the Adventure Time art style you'll like be picking this up anyways.
Showcase: Streets of New Capenna
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - 30.77/35.53
Breya, Etherium Shaper - 7.98/9.84
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - N/A/8.84
Non-foil: 47.59 foil: 54.21
Non-foil - D foil: C-
This grade pains me because I REALLY think the art on these is beautiful and they'll likely include a Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis in the same style as a bonus card but putting personal preferance and speculation aside the value just is not here.
Special Guest: Matt Jukes Foil Edition
Glacial Fortress - 3.71/11.25
Drowned Catacomb - 7.28/17.46
Dragonskull Summit - 3.79/6.96
Rootbound Crag - 3.81/6.55
Sunpetal Grove - 3.89/5.96
Non-foil: 22.48 foil: 48.18
Non-foil - F foil - D-
The value in these really speaks for itself.
Artist Series: Magali Villeneuve
Mother of Runes - 4.91/Varies
Death's Shadow - 6.12/10.19
Elvish Mystic - .45/9.97
Forest - N/A
Non-foil - 11.48 Foil: N/A
Non-foil - F Foil - D-
The biggest thing out of this lair is the foil Mother of Runes the prices fluctuates so much with the older foils it's hard to set an exact price to obtain a foil one; if we look at the previous secret lairs those versions of Mother of Runes are sitting at about 6-10 a piece.
Artist Series: Sidharth Chaturvedi
Concordant Crossroads - 46.87/N/A
Nomad Outpost - 1.06/5.74
Ghost Quarter - 1.12/16.90
Island - N/A
Non-foil: 49.05 foil: 69.51
Non-foil: D- foil: C
Essentially this lair is being carried by the fact that Concordant Crossroads only has 1 printing and has never had a foil printing. If you need one or would like to get a foil one knows your chance but outside of that its just some bulky cards with nice art.
Artist Series: Wayne Reynolds
Sram, Senior Edificer - .25/6.09
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell - .95/1.89
Depala, Pilot Exemplar - .23/1.65
Balthor the Defiled - 10.95/59.61
Non-foil: 12.38 Foil: 69.24
Non-foil - F Foil - C
This lair is also being carried by 1 card that has only 1 printing the rest is bulk.
Finally! Left-Handed Magic Cards
Sisay, Weatherlight Captain - .98/6.02
Empress Galina - 18.31/206.82
Geralf's Messenger - 9.89/34.48
Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh - .26/.41
Garruk, Caller of Beasts - 8.20/23.41
Non-foil: 37.64 foil; 271.14
Non-foil - C Foil: A
While Empress Galina is definitely the chase card out of this; it still has value in the other slots too outside of Roger - but even Roger is still highly playable.
Anyways, after doing all the math and putting this all together I appreciate the professor doing this and compiling it a video format. Also, which secret lairs if any are you planning to get?
legendofa on
Boros Legion
5 months ago
If you want to add a third color, offers the most options, but most of them are underwhelming. and have some interesting cards, but nothing that is an obvious shoo-in for Soldier tribal. is better at ramp, and is generally better at drawing and tutoring. Ultimately, I think this one comes down to taste. Dauntless Escort, General's Enforcer, and Lavinia, Azorius Renegade are all worth taking a look at.
As far as the commander goes, Saskia the Unyielding gets two extra colors, Jirina Kudro helps Humans as well, and you're either going to have to go specialty Guile, Sonic Soldier or Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis if you want with all creatures being Soldiers.
How competitive do you want it? Who are you going to be playing with? I hate to say it, but $300 won't buy some individual cards for an optimized competitive EDH deck. Don't let that stop you, though; as long as you have fun and enjoy what you've created, it's a success, and $300 can get some good stuff.
Guerric on
Fish are friends
5 months ago
Hi Anabasis! Since you asked for some feedback on the list prior to committing, I'll comment here since I can link cards easily. Let's begin with the archetype you are going for here, how it plays out with Braids, Conjurer Adept, how to make it run a bit smoothly. The archetype for this deck is "group hug," which is a bit of a misunderstood archetype that has gotten unnecessary bad rep in the past. Basically, a group hug deck built properly is one that has effects which benefit everyone, but benefit the player the most. The idea is that there is little incentive to target the group hug player because they are giving free stuff, and the free stuff nonetheless keeps every player more competitive, which takes more pressure off of the group hug player, who is then ahead in the value race. The most iconic group hug commander, for example, is Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis. This commander lets every player either draw an extra card or play an extra land each end step, whereas the Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis player gets to do both. Oftentimes what makes game uneven are some players encountering ramp or draw problems, and this evens things out and keeps them competitive. Usually players won't target Kynaios and Tiro because it is benefitting them, and because it is not inherently threatening. Nonetheless, the Kynaios player is ahead in the value race, and usually plans to win with some sort of alternate win condition like Approach of the Second Sun. Braids, Conjurer Adept plays out similarly, in that every player benefits from Braids, but unlike your opponents your deck is built to exploit it, and you will have scarier things to cheat out than they will. The difference with this deck, however, and this is the critical part, is that your deck will be inherently threatenting. People will soon figure out that you are dropping scary things and have plenty of incentive to kill braids. What's worse is that the way Braids works inherently gives them added incentive to do so. The scariest words on the card are "at the beginning of each player's upkeep" are ones you will come to loathe if you don't build this right. These words mean that if you play Braids normally, each of your opponents will get to use Braids before you do. This is bad, because after three opponents have used it, the third could kill Braids before you ever get to use her. This is the nightmare that should ever be in your mind when planning or playing this deck, but if you are mindful of it, it can be overcome. So let's think first about Braids' abilities and how to best protect and exploit her to your benefit over your opponents.'
The first is to do lots and lots of what blue does best, namely, countering spells. Whereas Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis are a pillowfort group hug deck, you should think of your deck as a control group hug deck. Forget the crappy boardwipes like AEtherize and Aetherspouts. You probably included them because you've sensed they won't hit your board, but you'll find that smart players never attack with their most important pieces, and that they won't generally do what you want them to. Spectral Deluge and Whelming Wave are probably fine, but leave the rest out- you're better off just stopping things from happening to begin with than wiping a board that will probably be in your favor. Counterspells are good here for two reasons. First and foremost, they protect Braids from removal, which will be their most important duty. Beyond that, since you're getting a free permanent every turn, you have the luxury of holding your mana open, so you might as well have stuff to do with it! I'd think about playing up to ten different counterspells along with premium blue targeted removal like Reality Shift, Ravenform, etc.
Since the weakness of Braids is that our opponents' get to use her first if we cast her at sorcery speed, we might as well rewrite the script and try to play her at instant speed where feasible. Leyline of Anticipation and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir can help with this. You'll enjoy much more playing Braids on your opponent's end step and getting to use her first than the reverse. This will also aid and abet your counterspell game, in that if you don't need to counter anything you can cast other spells on your opponent's end step rather than wasting your mana. I see that you included these spells, but I wanted to make sure that you realize how critical they are to your game, and that if you can find more of this effect it will be worthwhile to include it.
A third implication is that, in the true spirit of group hug, you should get to use Braids more than your opponents. It's only fair after all! Therefore cards that copy triggered abilities like Strionic Resonator are at a premium here. Braids is far better if you get to use her twice and your opponents only get to use her once.
You also need to rework your ramp section entirely. The general rule of commanders and ramp applies here, namely, that you mostly want to play ramp that can get your commander out a turn early. This means one and two mana rocks primarily, unless it can get extra lands out. Dreamstone Hedron and Hedron Archive are traps and will make you cry. I know the theory is that you can play them for free with Braids, but keep in mind that they will never help you cast Braids. Also, they tend to be removal targets, and you'd probably be putting out something threatening over a mana rock anyway. Caged Sun is definitely worth it though because of the overall value, and because it will be worth it even to double your mana for one turn in order to cast a massive x-spell. Armillary Sphere is just bad here. Importantly, it is not a ramp spell since it doesn't put anything onto the battlefield. When people do play it, it is just for color fixing in multi-colored decks, and you don't need that. It'd be better to just play more card draw so that you can draw into your land drops normally. Sol Ring, Mind Stone, and Thought Vessel are fine, but you want to add Wayfarer's Bauble, Sky Diamond, and Coldsteel Heart at least. Sword of the Animist and Dowsing Dagger Flip are also fabulously repeatable ramp that always makes me smile. Dreamscape Artist is also a sleeper blue card that can repeatedly ramp lands onto the battlefield which is often overlooked. You'll be far happy with these efficient options that can either get Braids out early or get her out on time with mana to spare for counterspells than with the big splashy cards.
Also, as far as card draw goes, I wouldn't take group hug to far here. You are already giving your opponents free permanents, and you are in the best card draw color and don't need their help in that. Personally I'd recommend skipping Kami of the Crescent Moon and the like entirely, and play more personal draw spells like Gadwick, the Wizened and Blue Sun's Zenith. Seriously. One advantage of Braids is that they will play spells for free and run out of stuff to cast, whereas you can keep drawing into it. If you help them out too much, you're just hurting yourself in the long run. I'd honestly replace all the reciprocal draw spells with spells which draw you cards. The only one that might be ok is Well of Ideas, but that one is benefiting you more and you first, so it fits the bill.
Some more cautions. While casting free haymakers is the reason for this deck, don't overdo it. You want to be able to afford to hard cast stuff sometimes, both in case Braids dies or just to amass more of a board presence. The power curve in magic has been getting lower in recent years, and there are many devastating spells that cost four and five mana, so don't sleep on those. Your average cmc here is 4.5, and while some high cmc haymakers are what you want, you also want lots of castable creatures.
I'm also not sure why we are playing the "creatures become every creature type" cards. Is this for better board wiping with Whelming Wave or synergy with Spawning Kraken? In my experience these synergies won't work out enough to justify the card slots, which might be better filled with counterspells or other creatures. Honestly, if I were to pick another theme to support this archetype I'd pick blink, since you doubling ETB counters can be great, but that's just me. Blinking is the sort of thing where you don't need to do a lot of it for it to be good.
A few other card choice matters. Reflections of Littjara only works on cast, so it won't copy creatures played with Braids. Definitely consider this before including a five mana enchantment that doesn't affect the board right away. Also, yes, absolutely play High Tide. It is so worth it in a mono-blue deck. Yes, Frozen Aether is amazing here. this is absolutely how to play group hug. Your opponents get free stuff, but it is only fair that you get to use your stuff first. Personally, I feel like Ominous Seas is one of the most overrated commander cards in recent years. It seems like you get a great rate on a vanilla 8/8, but often the enchantment will get blown up first, and it takes forever to come out. That's just my opinion thought.
One final thought, don't prejudice yourself too much in favor of sea monsters over against, say, eldrazi. I know the chase eldrazi are expensive, but Artisan of Kozilek is under one dollar in real world money and a wonderful thing to play with Braids, and to make copies of with your copy spells, and to give haste to with Crashing Drawbridge. You will have so much fun.
I think this will be a great deck and you have a lot of good ideas going here. I'd just refocus it a bit and then wreak some havoc!
Guerric on Who are the Commanders you …
5 months ago
As for commanders I enjoy playing against, definitely Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis. You won't have a problem with cards or mana, which are usually the things that make a game of commander less fun.
As for ones I hate, obviously any stax commander- leave that oppression for cEDH where it belongs. Nekusar, the Mindrazer is also pretty annoying. We'll just kill him into oblivion, but we'd rather play our own decks. Same goes for Prime Speaker Vannifar and any other failed cEDH commander that people just try to combo off with in regular commander. Again, we'll kill and counter your commander a lot and you won't get to have fun, but neither will we. Either go to the big leagues or learn how to build a good deck for regular commander.
TeyoSelflessProtector on
Xyris - Not the Snakes! (Backup)
6 months ago
No, Opposition isn't really group hug. XD those are just the finishers. Gotta win sometimes. If you want a slower, real group hug deck, I'd suggest using cards like Humble Defector, Pendant of Prosperity, and Bucknard's Everfull Purse. Makes for some fun politics. Or just tell everyone to run Bonder's Ornament. Or just run a Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis deck XD
Massacar on Idea for a deck, but …
6 months ago
vasarto77 Kind of the opposite of your suggestion, but still keeping in the theme, would be Zedruu the Greathearted.
Another excellent group hug commander that might help fit this theme would be Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis
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