I'm interested in building draw engines in Boros colors. What do you think of these?

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on July 2, 2019, 8:45 a.m. by StopShot

Red and White aren't typically the best colors for drawing cards or getting card advantage. I've been brainstorming up ways to generate cheap value off of two card pairings. How would you rate these?

Engine Result: Artifacts you control have , : Draw a card.

How It Works: Initially you can tap the Clock of Omens and Key to the City to untap the Key to the City . By doing this you skip needing to discard a card from tapping the key, and you can pay mana to draw a card since it untaps. This means you can also draw more cards off the key if you have spare artifacts lying around such as mana rocks and/or equipment.

(This engine is also pauper commander legal!)

Engine Result: Each card in your hand has cycling .

How It Works: Enchant Pili-Pala with Prophetic Ravings which gives it haste and the ability to rummage. While the Pili-Pala 's untap ability costs mana it always produces one mana from untapping which you can use again when you need to untap it effectively making it cost to untap it. (Also keep in mind that the first discard-draw is always free, so the cost to cycle cards does average out to here.)

Engine Result: Your opponents pay off your college tuition.

How It Works: While Well of Knowledge is a draw engine in of itself, it pairs wonderfully with Smothering Tithe which already will generate treasure tokens off the single card your opponents draw each draw step. This means that each opponent effectively pays off half your draw tax on Well of Knowledge and if each opponent pays into the Well of Knowledge each turn they'll effectively make the first couple of draws free resulting in much greater card draw for you in comparrison.

Engine Result: At the end of each player's turn, if that player exists you may pay to draw a card.

How It Works: Norin the Wary is a fickle card with an ability that's bound to trigger on every turn. Because of this if he's by himself he will effectively do nothing in a game, but with Mentor of the Meek , every time he reenters the battlefield will create a draw trigger from the mentor which means you've created a cheaper Mind's Eye that also draws you a card on your own turns as well.

What do you think of these draw engines? Honorable draw engine mention goes to Feather, the Redeemed + Defiant Strike , but I'm sure everyone is aware of that one.

SP3CTR3_chelts says... #2

Clock of Omens and Key to the City is my favourite out of these using spare mana rocks to draw cards is good.

Not such a fan of the 2nd I think giving your cards cycling 1 is not a great pay off for a two card combo. and the individual pieces are not as worth it on your own.

the 3rd paring is not really a draw engine and more just some synergy. However, smothering tithe is played in most decks that use white so would not use a slot and the other is good draw for a colour combo that does not have good draw :)

the last paring would work well in a small creatures/tokens deck but in those situations mentor is normally run anyway. If you chuck Mana Echoes in there it is a full engine.

so rating them in order i would put them 1,4,3,2.

July 2, 2019 10:26 a.m.

sonnet666 says... #3

Honestly? I don't really like any of these except for Clock + Key, and that's only in a deck that's heavily artifact based.

  1. This is largely dependent on how much functionality Clock of Omens and Key to the City already have in your deck. If there are a lot of splashy artifacts you want to untap and a lot of scary creatures you want to connect with, then I'd say play it, but that sounds like it's two different decks. If you have to hunt around for two different artifacts that don't do much on their own just to spend 2 or more mana per card (you have better things to do with your rocks usually), then this is kind of meh.

  2. The per card really kills this one. Paradox Engine + Rummaging Goblin will let you rummage forever pretty much for free. There are several other untap effects in red you could work with. Aura versions of creature effects are much less versatile than just running the creature version, and Pili-Pala has very limited usefulness in these colors.

  3. I'm always a critic of group hug effects. Giving your opponent cards in EDH is like handing the enemy ammunition in war. It's just a bad idea. If your opponent is running green and has a ton of mana, you won't be outpacing them in draws no matter how many treasures they give you. ( Smothering Tithe is, of course, still a great card.)

  4. This might be : draw a card if your opponent exists, but Mind's Eye is also : draw a card if your opponent exists, and Mind's Eye is a single card. What reason do most decks have to run Norin the Wary ? I've never played him in anything outside of Purphoros, God of the Forge .

I don't really see how any of these come close to Skullclamp + creatures, and Red/White is the best color identity to tutor an equipment.

July 2, 2019 2:35 p.m.

multimedia says... #4

Hey, very creative combos you've come up with. It's too bad we can't upvote forum topics because this topic deserves upvotes :)

The problem with your combos is for each one, one of the two cards is not good by itself; only good when you have both cards. That's a problem because Boros lacks a lot of tutors to get each card.

In Boros for casual I like Assemble the Legion and Skullclamp as a mana efficient repeatable draw engine. Assemble is also good with Mentor of the Meek . Commander's Sphere , Mind Stone or Sunbaked Canyon with Sun Titan isn't an engine, but it's a repeatable way to draw.

July 2, 2019 2:45 p.m.

shadow63 says... #5

Clock of omens + Howling Mine just seems better then using the clock with key to the city. Granted its non repeatable but it's free once you get the cards out

July 2, 2019 3:50 p.m.

Mind's Eye is also a card that exists.

July 2, 2019 7:56 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #7

Better add the second to all my red PDH decks ;)

July 3, 2019 12:02 a.m.

Rzepkanut says... #8

I appreciate the thoroughness of your post and I loved the combos you included. They aren't all for every deck but it's a nice bunch of engines to know about when building decks. I have a few draw engines to add...

July 3, 2019 1:04 a.m.

sonnet666 says... #9

Rzepkanut, Sunforger + Mistveil Plains is seven mana a turn. At that point, why not just run Chandra, Flamecaller ? There probably something more useful than Heartwarming Redemption to recur every turn.

July 3, 2019 4:19 p.m.

Rzepkanut says... #10

You're right that's a lot of mana to cast Heartwarming Redemption every turn, but the Sunforger + Mistveil Plains package is mostly what that combo is about. Having Heartwarming Redemption as a Sunforger loop target might not be as powerful as reusing a decent removal spell ultimately, but it is a notable card to be able to tutor up with a Sunforger if you are determined to draw cards repeatedly. The cards in the combo are simply cheaper to cast and use in the early game than Chandra, Flamecaller or Tower of Fortunes type cards, even if they cost a similar amount of mana to activate and get value from.

July 3, 2019 4:39 p.m. Edited.

Sunforger + Mistveil Plains to recur heartwarming redemption is a thoroughly underwhelming use of its power. Considering you can use that combo to take 6 turns in a row in boros colours!

July 4, 2019 6 a.m.

Joe_Ken_ says... #12

One equipment I always find to be a big help in Boros for card draw is Mask of Memory since if you plan to ever get additional combat steps it pretty much becomes draw 4 discard 2 or even just the regular draw 2 discard 1 works out really well.

July 4, 2019 11:32 p.m.

StopShot says... #13

Joe_Ken_ to really exploit it's effect I would pair it with Skyhunter Skirmisher or Aven Sunstriker . That's evasion and double tap while still being cost-effective. I might add Mirran Crusader depending on the meta.

July 5, 2019 7 a.m.

dingusdingo says... #14

Alms Collector + wheel of your choice. Wheel of Fortune Winds of Change Reforge the Soul Wheel of Fate Memory Jar . The alms collector is strong against decks that draw cards, and wheels are powerful even without the bonus lockout and draw from the alms collector.

Goblin Welder + Memory Jar . At the cost of an sacrifice an artifact you get to draw 7 cards a turn that you get to abuse better than your opponent due to them leaving EOT. Welder has big potential for abuse with other cards, and can recur pieces of the combos you've already mentioned. Memory Jar is used with Alms collector and has the words "Draw 7 cards on it" outside of combo usage.

Kor Spiritdancer / Mesa Enchantress / Sram, Senior Edificer + Mark of Fury / Flickering Ward . Mark of fury is obviously better and easier to slot, but Flickering Ward serves as reusable protection for creatures you want to survive a round or two, and if it resolves you can stop yourself getting 2-for-1'd by returning it to hand. Similar situation with Kor Spiritdancer and the enchantress, one is obviously better but if you're running this engine your deck is going to be wanting enchantments anyways (maybe some future enchantress damage commander?) to benefit extra value of enchantresses. Either way, enchantress + Mark of fury is a draw every turn for just

Astral Slide or Astral Drift + Seasoned Pyromancer is very bonkers. You obviously put it into a cycling deck. You pay 1 for the cycle to draw 1, then get 2 loots from the pyromancer while getting 2 critters. Digging 3 deep while keeping 1 is better than Burning Inquiry or Faithless Looting , and you get up to 2 tokens. Another deck specific engine, despite being fantastic. There's also the new red Tectonic Reformation to GREATLY improve this build. Honestly you could probably mash this together with the enchantress one for a laugh.

Enduring Renewal + Phyrexian Altar + creature of your choice gets some interesting effects. Mesa Enchantress + Hopeful Eidolon / Nyxborn Rollicker lets you draw through. Seasoned Pyromancer lets you filter a LOT of cards and build a large board of tokens. Insolent Neonate lets you filter through your entire library. Thraben Inspector gives you an infinite amount of clues for draws. Priest of Urabrask gives infinite mana, which isn't draws but relevant to Altar

Enduring Renewal has other combo options outside Altar or draws. Priest of Urabrask + free sac outlet is infinite sacs, great with something like Altar of the Brood or Altar of Dementia . Renewal can also loop with free sac outlets with 0 cost creatures.

July 7, 2019 3:46 a.m.

sonnet666 says... #15

Enduring Renewal + Phyrexian Altar + Insolent Neonate doesn't work. You can't sacrifice Neonate to Altar and it's own ability.

You're right about Enduring Renewal though. It's got a lot of uses and is often overlooked. You can get infinite mana off of 0-drops like Ornithopter as well.

I'm not really sold on the cycling stuff though. if you have a blink engine on board ( Skybind would go well with the enchantress stuff), there are a lot of creatures that will just put cards into your hand instead of filtering them.

July 8, 2019 2:23 p.m. Edited.

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