Creature — Human Shaman
When Seasoned Pyromancer enters the battlefield, discard two cards, the draw two cards. For each nonland card discarded this way, create a 1/1 red Elemental creature token.
, Exile Seasoned Pyromancer from your graveyard: Create two 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens.
|Have (2)||lorddarkstar ,|
Printings View all
|Modern Horizons (MH1)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Seasoned Pyromancer Discussion
2 days ago
Inside of mono-red, I would lean more towards Siege-Gang Commander over Seasoned Pyromancer. Then all you need to add to the combo is a way to convert colourless mana to red mana (or a sac-for-red altar) and you have the deck win condition built in.
2 days ago
Today's infinite combo is in mono-red, but card suggestions outside of red are welcome. The combo:
The point of this thread: is to come up with card suggestions to add to the 99 of this theoretical deck that will help guarantee this combo will win the game. The problems this combo faces are outlined in the sections Hole A, Hole B and Hole C. Suggestions for combating any one of these three holes is greatly appreciated.
How this combo works: To start you just need to have all three cards listed on the battlefield. So long as the Seasoned Pyromancer creates at least one token you'll be able to sacrifice both the token and the pyromancer to Ashnod's Altar to generate mana which you can recur with Nim Deathmantle. This means theoretically you have created infinite draw/filtering, infinite 1/1 tokens for every time you discard two nonland cards and infinite colorless mana off those infinite tokens. Of course however, there are certain holes in this strategy that hinder it.
Hole A of this combo: Whenever a deck comes up with infinite draw, it should be noted that it is never truly infinite card draw unless you can refill your library an endless number of times. Otherwise drawing too many cards when you don't have a library can result in losing the game. Since our token generation and mana generation are both directly tied to the number of times we can draw/filter cards that means our token and mana production is just as limited unless we can solve the infinite draw issue. This is what I'd refer to as Hole A.
Solutions and Problems to Hole A: One possible solution to regenerate one's library is to run either Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. Given the last ability of either one, if either titan ends up in the graveyard they will simply reshuffle our graveyard back into our library, and given our combo is always discarding cards this task should be easy. BUT it's not a perfect solution. Suppose in the following scenario we reshuffle our library and the following two statements happen to be true: (1) The Eldrazi titan is positioned as one of the bottom three cards in our library and (2) our library has an odd number of cards in it. If you were to continuously filter cards under this situation there would be no possible way to discard the Eldrazi titan without completely drawing out from your deck and losing the game as a consequence. This is also true if our library has an even number of cards in it and the Eldrazi titan makes up one of the two bottom cards of our library. You would need some extra card to fix this problem or else the combo would be limited to either noted event occurring.
Possibly a better solution than running the Elderazi titans would be to run Elixir of Immortality instead. Given we don't need to discard the Elixir to use its effects and our combo can generate excess colorless mana after each loop it should be feasible to cast and activate the Elixir so long as our library has more nonland cards in it than land cards. This solution isn't perfect either but it's better than using the Eldrazi titans. In the event our library has an even number of cards in it we'll always be able to draw into the Elixir of Immortality regardless of where its located in our deck. However the same can't be said if our library has an odd number of cards. In the event our library has an odd number of cards, if the Elixir happens to be at the very bottom of our deck, the last card, there would be no way to draw the elixir using our combo without over-drawing from our library. That means there is still a hole in this strategy, albeit a smaller one, but the question still remains; is there a better card for the job?
Hole B of this combo: Just like Hole A, Hole B is another chance phenomenon that can derail our ability to continue the combo. Let's say under the given scenario our library currently has more nonland cards in it than land cards and we have 2 nonland cards and 2 land cards in hand when we start the combo. (Theoretically producing the tokens needed to continuously draw cards should be possible, but let's continue on with this scenario.) As we cycle through 2 cards at a time let's pretend that each consecutive two cards we draw is a land and a nonland together. This by itself would be enough just to keep the combo going, but then the unthinkable happens. We suddenly hit a massive land block in our deck, let's say the next 10 consecutive cards are all lands (despite how rare that chance may be). At this point we'd be at a deficit of negative mana per cycle just to dredge through each of these lands in order so that we can get to all the nonland cards beyond it. More than not, this scenario would be where our combo falls short due to this rare chance ordering of lands. This is Hole B of our combo.
Solutions and Problems to Hole B: When tackling the Hole B scenario, let's pretend we already have the perfect solution to Hole A that allows us to constantly shuffle cards in our graveyard back to our hand without fail. This is primarily to focus on the Hole B dilemma. One fact to keep in mind is given most decks tend to have more nonland cards than land cards it should be a given that with each deck shuffle we should end up with more tokens than before and thus more disposable mana to bypass any land blocks that may occur later on in the combo. So a given fact here is the later in the combo we go the less problematic Hole B starts to become. It's only before the first or second reshuffle that Hole B has the greatest potential to derail this combo.
One solution to Hole B is to use Shenanigans. Because of how dredge works we can always choose to have one of our cards be the dredged card. In this scenario we have guaranteed that one of the cards drawn or in this case dredged will always be a nonland card meaning our only outcomes from here on out will always be land + Shenanigans OR nonland + Shenanigans meaning there's no chance to lose value and always a chance to gain value. While this may seem like a perfect solution this problem it runs in direct contrast with our dilemma in Hole A. If we're using Elixir of Immortality as our card cycler of choice there's always the possibility we could accidentally dredge the Elixir into or graveyard by mistake and thus losing our ability to cycle our graveyard back into the library. While we wouldn't need to worry about dredging the Eldrazi titans away by mistake, that would mean we'd have to use a less effective Hole A solution in order to combat the problem that is Hole B. It should also be noted that since Shenanigans has Dredge 1 it won't be able to change our library from having and even number of cards to an odd number of cards and vice versa. In order to change the even or oddness of a library you'd need to use an off-color dredge card with an even dredge number to change the state of your library's even/odd card count. So is dredge the right solution to Hole B or is there another alternative that could work in its place?
Hole C of this combo: Lastly yet most importantly, we need an actual way to win with this combo. While infinite card draw, infinite tokens and infinite colorless mana are really powerful, together they are not enough to win you the game right away. For that we'd need to have yet another card in our library dedicated to abusing any one of these qualities to win us the game on the spot. While this may be the easiest hole to fill in the question ultimately sits at; what is the best solution to Hole C?
I've come up with three win conditions that work, but if you know of one better I'd like to hear what wincon you'd prefer best. The three cards that come to my mind are Anger, Walking Ballista and Blasting Station. Anger would be an easy card to dump into the graveyard which would be what we could give our massive token army haste to win the game. This strategy can bypass annoying cards like Leyline of Sanctity and Propaganda as we can easily pay the price with our infinite colorless mana, but cards such as Crawlspace or Spore Frog could easily stop this win condition. If we use Walking Ballista or Blasting Station we'd have the mana to cast either and all the tokens needed to be sac'd for either to deal lethal damage, but both these win condition cards would easily be beaten if our opponents have a Leyline of Sanctity or a Dissipate. So, what is the best win condition for an infinite combo like this one?
1 month ago
Land Tax is an auto-include if you never want to miss a land drop ever again. It also makes playing a turn 3 Blood Moon easy to work with. Makes surviving and using mass land wipes fun too. Goes great with Ghost Town if you never want to miss those triggers.
But Land Tax reaches Skullclamp levels of broken if you pair it with Scroll Rack, Tectonic Reformation, Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion, Necrogen Mists, Stronghold Rats, Raven's Crime or Seasoned Pyromancer with all the excess lands you can throw away. It even makes Sensei's Divining Top godly if you can shuffle your deck with Land Tax every turn before your draw step. (Even if there’s no more basic lands in the deck, that free shuffle can be great with SD-Top and Scroll Rack.) Without that extra oomph Land Tax doesn’t really bring much to the table late game, but it can feel like a Sol Ring in the early game if your deck runs a below average number of lands.
2 months ago
2 months ago
2 months ago
Of the cards you were questioning, I happily run Seasoned Pyromancer and Doom Whisperer in my Alesha deck. Tomb Robber is okay if your 3-slot isn't too full, and if you want more control over your discard and land drops. I haven't gotten a chance to try Dockside Extortionist in my build yet, but I know it combos well with Underworld Breach, so I'm eager to try them both next time I can sit down and play some real Magic with my friends! Anarchist has been on my radar for a while, even with the meager 5 sorceries I currently run, but I have too much to playtest at the moment before I make more changes. Pay attention to how many sorcery cards you run, and how often you want them back (though Ruinous Ultimatum might provide some real incentive!). The other cards you've mentioned I've either tried and been unimpressed with, or I've found alternatives I prefer.
2 months ago
Remember that there is competitive modern and 'competitive modern'. There are things you can do at local FNM which doesn't hold up in bigger competitions. You don't have to plan for the entire meta, just the decks you are likely to face.
As someone new to more competitive settings trying to play off-meta, I highly rate transformative sideboards. You can improve almost any matchup by sideboarding 15 cards (or fourteen with companion), and viewing your maindeck as a place to store sideboard cards (which can be swapped in bad matchups).
As a deck which 'relies' on risen reef combo, put thought in your backup gameplan. Your Jegantha choice offers a backup combo with something like Freed from the Real, while only taking up four slots. This is the right direction, however in specific it faces the same problems- a weakness to removal- as the maindeck. Testing alternatives, both main and side will be most of the process for this.
Don't feel the need to settle into one list- unpredictablity is a major asset for every list that isn't already highly-tuned. Your opponent will misidentify control or beatdown matchups, netting easy wins, especially with sideboard mixups.
For a time, Voice of Resurgence was the big reason to play midrange, and its still pretty solid. Value with Vesperlark/thunderkin is decent if you can avoid grave hate- sideboarding in a set of mana leak/spell pierce is legit if they don't have a fast clock.
Primal Beyond is good, non-painful mana fixing.
Finally, look at Jeskai Ascendancy combo lists. Its fallen out of favour due to disruptability, but faces a lot of the same deckbuilding restrictions you are under. Similarly, Reveillark/Body Double was a deck that never really took off. Runaway Steam-Kin had a few combos theory crafted that never made it. I'm sure there are things in these lists you can adapt. I'm sure that between all of these you can find something that runs nicely. Playtest well, and have fun.
2 months ago
I think of Seasoned Pyromancer as filtering, not card advantage. I may have been a little too strong when pushing for card advantage (I value it way too highly) as this deck can often build up early board presence, wrath, or get a Blood Moon down and then win instead of playing the long game. You also may not need dedicated card advantage cards if the game does go long given your planeswalkers, Blood Moon, and especially Scrying Sheets.
I didn't know Yidaro, Wandering Monster existed and now I'm in love with it, so thank you for that, but I'm not sure it fits well within the deck given it's so slow. I think Koth of the Hammer is a scary, scary threat, but it's a tad expensive and not great against creatures. Against control, maybe Goblin Rabblemaster as a fast clock that leaves multiple bodies.