Combo decks are the best decks. Period. Not necesarily the most competitive, but the best.

But to trully understand this, you need to understand the different types (and subtypes) of combo decks.

Engines are the very best kind of combo decks. They require effort to play, suspense (will I be able to draw that Second Sunrise?) and have a high level of interest. Let's break them down.

Engines break down into three main subtypes: - Mana Engines (Krark-Clan-Ironworks) - Untap Engines (Jeskai Ascendency) - Recursion engines (Second Sunrise) (You can argue Grishoalbrand should be on here, I choose to exclude it from this list because it really didn't fit with the rest of them. Also, you can include Waste Not, but it hasn't proven itself in the modern metagame, even if I belive it has potential.)

The Similarities Between Them: All of them need mana/cost reduction to work. All of them have a way for new cards to enter the combo equasion. All of them have cards with additional synergy with their build-around.(i.e. Ichor Wellspring: KCI Fatestitcher: JA.) And all of them have recursion (If they use the graveyard. Exeption: Paradox Engine). To sum it up: All of them need Mana, Recursion, and Cards. The deck building just depends on what your Engine of choice already provides.

The Differences: Only Mana Engines can actually produce mana themselves, other Engine type decks have to rely on other sources. This decreaases consistency slightly, as you have to find multiple pieces to combo off. Typically they are more powerful to make up for the fact (WoTC hates printig Mana Engines it seems). Mana Engines typically don't play many creatures, where Untap Engines typically want to play as many as possible. Typically both Mana Engines and Untap Engines care more about certain types then Recursion engines, but recursion engines will typically play mostly one type of card because it is more efficient for the deck. Recursion engines are the most swingy (vary greatly in deck buiilding) and least popular kind of combo deck overall. (Typically, Wizards dosn't print many competitive recursion engines. Unless of course, you built 100% competitive roar of reclimation that is.) Also, sometimes Mana Engines will play infinite combos, this dosen't make them a Hybrid though, because they have many more ways to draw cards.

These are without a doubt, the most boring kind of combo decks in existance. But they also have a habbit of winning. Let's break them down.

Infinite Combos break down into (again) three main subtypes. 1. Kiki-Combos (Includes 4c-CopyCat) 2. CoCo Combos 3. Graveyard Combos (i.e. Bubble Hulk, Necrotic Ooze.) 4. Ad-Nauseam Combo (I choose to include Ad-Nauseam because it is essentially an infinite combo.) 5. Gift's Storm (I choose to include Gifts storm becuase it really is a two card combo, once they cast gifts with a manabear you are going to die, if you have no interaction or taxes that is.)

The Similarities Between Them: The most popular infinite combos are all creature based. Of course there are plenty of infinite combos without creatures, but the ones with Chord of Calling have an instant speed tutor for their combo piece, that even puts it onto the battlefield. They all require no more then 3 cards, exepting Bubble Hulk (What a terrible name!), which really only counts as 2.

The Differences: Co-Co combos are harder to win the game on the spot with, because typiacally they need 3 pieces (i.e. Devoted Druid+vizier of remidies+Walking balista.) This hasn't hindered them yet as they can still beat you down normally. Ad Nauseam combo and Graveyard Combos can't win fairly. Most of the creature based decks have their combo pieces, and then they have their Knight of the Reliquary and Kitchen Finks. But Graveyard decks and Ad-N are more foucused on comboing off then backup plans. They are typically less resistent to hate.

Hybrids are typically the worst decks in competivity and I can't decided where they go in terms of enjoyment.

I haven't really found many examples of hybrids in MTG, but, the characteristics of Hybrids is very few (4-8) ways to get new cards in the combo, and they use a mana/untap/etc. engine to fuel 3+ infinite card combos. They usally don't relly on drawing more cards, more so just having the infinite combo. This makes them probably the worst kind in terms of winning.

1. Second Breakast: A compleatly degenerate win perentage, and all that work and suspence to get there. (BANNED) 2. KCI: Same as above. (BANNED) 3. Jeskai Ascendancy: Mostly the same, ut number 3 because it's win percentage is not as high and you have less recursion/explosive plays.

Gidgetimer says... #1

Thank you, that is pretty close. Though the one I played was changed after it rotated out of standard to be a modern deck. If I wanted I could pressure the person who leant the deck I played for a list, but since I really only play commander ATM it isn't worth it to me. I was just trying to plant the idea and let them do what they want with it.

Thanks again.

September 13, 2020 6:45 p.m.

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Said on PDH Ley & …...


Nice deck!

28 lands seems a little low, has it been working for you?

also curious about Tangle, have yoou been needing a fog in your meta?

September 17, 2020 2:27 p.m.

Best aggro deck ever is a bit ambitious... :)

Your deck looks fun!

September 14, 2020 6:20 p.m.

All of my worldly possessions?


Probably not :)

September 13, 2020 9:27 p.m.

Said on Gidgetimer...


This might be close to the U/B pickles deck you were thinking of?

September 12, 2020 1:52 p.m.

MagicMarc Depths isn't modern legal :)

September 12, 2020 1:48 p.m.

Said on DragonSliver9001...


Maybe, but going back and fixing typos isn't somthing I care about.

So long as the point gets across, I have succeeded in communicating. Obviously in formal writing I will go back and tripple check everything, but here, I just try to get my point accross without taking up too much of my time.

I would reccomend not judging someones opinion based on grammar/spelling- Non english speakers will be disproportionatly affected.

September 11, 2020 3:06 p.m.

Said on DragonSliver9001...


If you're looking at/for grammar or spelling mistakes, it's not worth my time or energy to continue this conversation. I don't use this site so I can demonstrate how well I can spell, I do it because I love playing Magic.

September 10, 2020 4:07 p.m.

I don't know what your definition of homogenizing formats is DragonSliver9001: but in my book they all did. It dosen't really matter if we agree on that- agree to disagree if you will. :)

It seems awfully technical to say that Ouat didn't have an alternate casting cost :/

Were you active in modern when Ouat was the number 1 spell? There were many decks that had no buisness splashing for a green card that splashed for ouat. I supose the argument could be made that thats when most decks were green, but that dosen't change the fact that decks that weren't green did play it.

I could have phrased it better, but what I meant when I said none of the cards could be excluded by color I mean that your deck could just splash with no trouble in Ouat's and AA's case (or just play more basics for AA spesificly). This was somthing that did happen in a bunch of different decks.

You liked playing pauper with AA? I have heard many opionions on Astrolabe and yours is the first positive one I've heard. Or am I misinterpreting and you don't play pauper and are just telling me your observations of the format?

Weather wizards knew what would happen if they released AA or not is somthing I'd prefer not to discuss. :)

Anyhow, this part of the conversation is less about Lithoform Engine, so lets continue it on my wall. :)

September 10, 2020 2:36 a.m.

Said on Custom User Cards...


berryjon would you prefer to be a saproling? :D

September 9, 2020 2:37 p.m.

In colorless you basically have Spine of Ish, Blast Zone, Scour from Existence, and Karn Liberated (probably missing some), of which only one is playable in modern (for the average deck). I'd recomend just splashing if at all possible, but if you want the deck to remain mono red or there is somthing else preventing you from changing color- Blast Zone is your best answer.

Alternativly you could try out Dragonsliver's sugestion to play around Stony Silence rather than destroy it.

September 9, 2020 2:35 p.m.

Said on Combo Question...


That is true.

September 9, 2020 2:29 p.m.

DragonSliver9001: Ouat had a alternative casting cost. In modern E-tron lists would play 1 Forest and still be able to get vaule of it. MM and gitaxian probe had phyrexian mana costs, and Arcum's Astrolabe required a basic land to cast it. None of these cards could be exculded from your deck purely by casting cost or color.

All of these examples did homogenize formats before they were banned, maybe not commander, by formats like modern and legacy. It is also possible that my defintion and yours of homogenizing formats is different, but these cards weren't okay. Ouat was number 1 played spell in modern shortly after release, AA was probably close if not there. The phyrexian spells could fit into any deck that wanted a free cantrip and information or interaction. MM was the best answer to itself so it was hard not to justify plying it.

September 9, 2020 2:27 p.m.

Said on Combo Question...


I think it was less about the triggered ability and more about gaining the ability to be cast from the graveyard, which does not persist through multiple zones.

September 9, 2020 3:19 a.m.

DragonSliver9001: While I agree that cards that can fit in a multitude of stratagies are nice to see and definitely add to MTG as a whole, too many of them are bad for the game.

Cards like Arcum's Astrolabe gives every deck the ability to splash for the best cards in the format.

Gitaxian Probe means every deck starts at 56 cards.

Once Upon a Time provides consistency for every deck.

Mental Misstep is an amazing tempo play for every deck.

The key phrase here is 'every deck' Having all of these cards that can see play in any deck just makes every deck the same in so many ways. Especially if the cards are at this power level, all of these cards very much deserved to be banned.

Notice how all of these cards had a non color limiting cost at roughly 1 cmc, and were cantrips or in MMs case an answer. There is almost no opportunity cost to just play 4 of these cards, and your deck will run smoother.

So while yes, having some of these cards is good, when they are too powerful (or too numerous) it just homogenizes a format.

Interestingly, Lithoform Engine is not cheap, an answer, or a cantrip.

September 9, 2020 2:25 a.m.

Rathar, Smoldering Horder

Legendary Creature - Dragon

Flying, haste.

Whenever an equipment your opponents control would be put into a graveyard from play, gain control of it and equip it to Rathar instead.

Rathar gets +1/+1 for each equipment attached to him. If Rathar has 3 or more equipments attached to him, Rathar has hexproof.



September 8, 2020 5:03 p.m.

I would wholehearteddly reccomend cutting Ornithopter as it dosen't trigger any of your creatures and is a rather meh card in general.

September 8, 2020 4:13 p.m.

Said on Modern Foretold...


I would strongly reccomend cutting a couple of Blood Moons for Greater Gargadon. Moon isn't the kind of card that you want multiples of, dosen't impact the board, and gives your opponents some time to find basics or just cast red spells. Gargadon provides an additional finisher while also destroying their lands which is usually more impactful.

September 5, 2020 3:03 a.m.

I believe that there are already hubs that work well for prowess decks, the best fit being Spellslinger. I personally do not believe that a Prowess hub is necescary.

September 4, 2020 3:55 p.m.

Well, I stuck with guilds (with a splash for bombs), but whenever I did a online draft (through somthing like draftsim that dosen't cost money) I would see If I could draft off guild for fun.

August 31, 2020 10:38 p.m.

Damn, I think I saw one episode of Courage, the cowardly dog when I was little.

Freaked me out good! I still remember it... somthing about spiders climbing out of the shower? XD

August 31, 2020 10:36 p.m.


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